Microsoft will begin developing Windows 12 in March

[Kenrou]

Microsoft will begin developing Windows 12 in March

The following Windows must be Windows 12, and it looks as though we are on pace, as Twitter user and Microsoft MVP award-winning security expert @SwiftOnSecurity claims that work on the new operating ...

www.guru3d.com

Required, a Microsoft account on Home and Pro
Security, TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot.
Integration of the “Microsoft Pluto” security chip
Completely new substructure, nothing from other OS.
Taking Windows 10X Approaches

I think the 1st comment says it all - Why ? I thought Win10 was supposed to be the "last windows you will ever use", and then Win11 popped up with next to zero improvements, and now Win12 with even more near-useless security features people will have to bypass to use ? Truly wondering what M$ is thinking at this point...

 

[JLK03F150]

"last windows you will ever use”
Exactly what popped into my head seeing this post.
Personally I don’t have a Win10 install that’s logged in to a MS account. They are providing all this “enhanced security”, while data mining everything they can get from their users.

 

[freakdiablo]

My only real concerns are -

Will the MS account requirement be just as easy to bypass as W11.

And

If these pluton chips are being built into CPUs with MS firmware (first I heard about them and that's just from 2 minutes of skimming), it seems like an easy way to pull something screw-y and lock out other OSes. Just my inner conspiracy theorist.

 

[WhitehawkEQ]

If these pluton chips are being built into CPUs with MS firmware (first I heard about them and that's just from 2 minutes of skimming), it seems like an easy way to pull something screw-y and lock out other OSes. Just my inner conspiracy theorist.

It's Pluto Although it may as well be plutonium

 

[freakdiablo]

It's Pluto Although it may as well be plutonium

According to MS, it's pluton, unless I'm missing something?

 

[ATMINSIDE]

It's Pluto Although it may as well be plutonium

Don't worry, about 5 years after launch Neil deGrasse Tyson will tell us they aren't security chips... in all seriousness, it's Pluton, Guru3d just had a typo.

 

[freakdiablo]

in all seriousness, it's Pluton, Guru3d just had a typo.

Got it, sorry couldn't brain.

 

[ssjwizard]

IDK. I was a little sketched about the idea at first, but I read the white papers on Pluton and Secure Core, and overall it seems legit.
Super advanced TPM + active HW level firmware protection.

Its fairly comparable to Apples T2 security module/secure enclave but with more horsepower. The main difference I see though is the T2 is also the storage controller which puts it directly between the SSD and the rest of the system so your storage is encrypted more secure with a hadware key.

 

[Woomack]

With more "security" and "protection" I see more problems for regular users. There are many cases like your laptop dies and you don't remember password for something, and lose access to your data. This is only one example but at work I see so many cases that shouldn't even happen that I just know that anything new they add, will cause more problems.
Two days ago one of my clients asked to help him with his laptop. He forgot pin and the only way to enter Windows was his fingerprint. However, he wanted to disable it and set a regular password. Once he disabled fingerprint login then for some reason Windows started to show errors related to normal password, and pin recovery didn't work. In short once he restarted the laptop then he lost all the data and access to his microsoft account on this laptop.
There are many account issues recently. Many windows updates are causing OS corruption, login issues or other things. I recommend MS to work on their products' quality and support instead of adding new problems to the existing environment.

I'm not using windows account if I don't really need it. There are too many problems with that and too often Windows services/servers are not working properly. MS support says "it happens", but it always happens when you need it. MS support usually won't help you and suggest to browse the web ... where you find many people with the same problems and no answers.
Recently I couldn't log onto my Xbox account which is using MS account. It still doesn't work on my PC while via web browser started to work after 2 or 3 days. On my PC I have MS account set only to work with MS software but I'm using a local account for the OS.

 

[ihrsetrdr]

After Windows 7 I thought Microsoft's best move would have been to follow Apple's example of progression on to a Unix-like kernel, then build a typical GUI user interface.

 

[ssjwizard]

I do agree on the requiring a Microsoft Account being a bad idea. I mean its cool to have as an option, but none of my computers use one. I only use offline accounts or local network accounts on any of my gear.

 

[TerranBrackiatt]

honestly, i don't understand having TPM 2.0 as a requirement for Windows 11 at all. i'm under the impression that you only need the TPM code if you use bitlocker (a pro feature, not even usable in Home license) to encrypt your files. if you don't encrypt with bitlocker, you'll still be able to access all your files just fine without needing the TPM 2.0 code. of course, i could be wrong, but that's my impression based on what i've read.

 

[MisterEd]

If they begin developing Windows 12 in March 2023 when will it be released? Maybe 2026 or 2027?

BTW, despite what Microsoft says and tries to do you can install Windows 11 without a Microsoft account. I wonder if that workaround will be available with Windows 12?

 

[EarthDog]

If they begin developing Windows 12 in March 2023 when will it be released? Maybe 2026 or 2027?

Reading the actual article, they've already started working on it. The article this comes from and thread title are misleading, lol.

They go on to say that some features (the list in the first post) of 12 already exist and will make their way into 22H2 (ran it, like it, had problems with a game, went back, lol). IIRC, Windows releases around every three years which puts 12 at 2024 if they retain that cadence.

EDIT: Damnit - this thread was created MONTHS ago, lolol.

 

[ssjwizard]

As for TPM 2.0 there is a lot more going on with that than just bitlocker. It opens up several other UEFI accesses to the TPM module as well as active tracking of firmware changes. Thats the first step to creating what they are calling "Secure Core" not CPU core but as in system core. TPM remembers all devices that have been previously connected to the system and any relevant hardware keys needed. The next iteration of this is to include active firmware monitoring and system bus encryption. Sounds silly, but these are the 2 biggest weaknesses left in modern PCs that is not a software level fix. The latest big hacks are coming from malicious firmware exploits and there is no real way to detect that from within the OS so you need a lower level hardware solution. Secondly it encrypts the system bus communications between components natively, and while this sounds unnecessary and to like 99% of all users it will be, but this is to secure the hardware from physical breaches and memory attacks.

 

[Kenrou]

That's all fair and good, but at the end of the day, 99% of the regular desktop users don't need it (or even know/care that it can be important), so being forced to buy one specifically for an OS and then not use any of its functions - essentially having just because M$ says you need to have it - is... you know

 

[ihrsetrdr]

An interesting article contrasting TPM 2.0 with Apple's T2 chip: medium.com/asecuritysite

 

[trents]

With more "security" and "protection" I see more problems for regular users. There are many cases like your laptop dies and you don't remember password for something, and lose access to your data. This is only one example but at work I see so many cases that shouldn't even happen that I just know that anything new they add, will cause more problems.
Two days ago one of my clients asked to help him with his laptop. He forgot pin and the only way to enter Windows was his fingerprint. However, he wanted to disable it and set a regular password. Once he disabled fingerprint login then for some reason Windows started to show errors related to normal password, and pin recovery didn't work. In short once he restarted the laptop then he lost all the data and access to his microsoft account on this laptop.
There are many account issues recently. Many windows updates are causing OS corruption, login issues or other things. I recommend MS to work on their products' quality and support instead of adding new problems to the existing environment.

I'm not using windows account if I don't really need it. There are too many problems with that and too often Windows services/servers are not working properly. MS support says "it happens", but it always happens when you need it. MS support usually won't help you and suggest to browse the web ... where you find many people with the same problems and no answers.
Recently I couldn't log onto my Xbox account which is using MS account. It still doesn't work on my PC while via web browser started to work after 2 or 3 days. On my PC I have MS account set only to work with MS software but I'm using a local account for the OS.

When I set up a machine I never use a Microsoft account for all the reasons you state, Woo. But MS makes that more difficult with every new OS and they bait you continually to convert to a MS account when you set a machine up with a local account. Most of my clients fall for it. The other problem, as you mention, is people who have a MS account will generally add a PIN and forget their password because they think they will never need it. But the PIN doesn't work for some administrative tasks. Only the original password will suffice for some things. Anymore, I disable the notification prompts that try to bait you to convert from a local account to a MS account. That's the first thing I do when I set up a Windows 10 or 11 machine.

 

[Niku-Sama]

it used to be you can disable windows hello for business in group policies and it'll quit asking you for pins even if you or your clients have connected an account.
and if you use the new windows install method on the decrapifier you can get into it before the install is done

any way these recent windows versions dont really feel like anything other than service patches, the TPM requirements too seem a bit excessive for end users too.

 

[Woomack]

At work I'm using a domain with administrator rights for a local user. However, my clients set whatever they think is the best or whatever windows suggests. Everything is fine until the first problem, forgotten password or anything like that. I only add that most clients don't even have backups, even though we suggests them various options. They usually decide to buy and configure something after they lose data, but I guess it's typical everywhere.