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Motherboard throttling A10 7870K

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Tenuto

New Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Hey everyone. Basically I have a GIGABYTE GA-F2A68HM-DS2H Socket FM2+/ AMD A68H motherboard. The APU I'm using is the A10 7870K. Unfortunately, it seems as though the motherboard VRM is overheating and causing my APU to throttle back while testing. How do I fix this? Should I get a new motherboard with a heatsink or better power phase? Do I need a new case with more airflow? I'm not sure what to do. Thanks.
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Can you try putting a fan on the VRM?
I would make getting a new motherboard with a heatsink and a proper VRM a priority, personally.

Can you list all your components like in my sig please?
Also, a picture of the inside of your case would help a lot with us diagnosing any potential airflow issue.
 

Mandrake4565

Mr. Clean Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
If it is throttling a few changes you can make that will help. More case airflow, putting a spot fan directly on the vrm section as well as the backside of the motherboard. What are you using to cool the chip now, is it the stock heatsink or aftermarket?
 
OP
T

Tenuto

New Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Thanks so much for the reply.

Build:
Processor A10 7870K Running at Stock Clock Speeds
CPU Heat Sink:[/COLOR] Stock Temperatures are never able to exceed 50 Degrees Celsius due to VRM
Video:[/COLOR] Integrated Graphics
OS DRIVE: WD 1TB BLUE
Power: EVGA 400W
RAM: 8GB DDR3 EVGA SSC 2400mhz underclocked to 2133mhz
Case: ANTEC VSK3000 (Only 1 92MM FAN)

IMG_20160131_160831313.jpg
IMG_20160131_160837828.jpg
 

saturn

Disabled
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Over heating mosfets can cosse throttling, and cooling can remove the problem.
But more then not it will not let you go very much more if at all.
Mosfets have a max output and can't go higher without blowing up. Throttling prevents the mosfets from blowing up.

If your not over locking or using a couple with to higher of a tpd for you motherboard then something is wrong. Heat could be it.


Edit: looks like you don't have any heat sinks on the mosfets. Clean up your cables and add a rear fan and you should be good to go if heat is the problem. You could also put some enzotech heat sinks on the board.
 
OP
T

Tenuto

New Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2016
Airflow or Motherboard?

If it is throttling a few changes you can make that will help. More case airflow, putting a spot fan directly on the vrm section as well as the backside of the motherboard. What are you using to cool the chip now, is it the stock heatsink or aftermarket?

Putting at fan on the VRM does help but doesn't prevent all the throttling. It also makes it so I only have airflow traveling to the VRM. I'm using a the Stock heatsink and it keeps the CPU temps really low. The only problem is it can't reach those higher temperatures because of the VRM.
 

Mandrake4565

Mr. Clean Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
It may help, if you get more airflow through the case and can try putting heat sinks as Saturn suggested for the VRM.
 

saturn

Disabled
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Also your cpu heat sink is blowing hot air on some of the mosfets. Might be worth a try to flip the cpu fan if possible.

But some better cable management and a rear fan should be all you need.
Unless if your overclocking or going over the mosfets wattage limit. Mosfets are the only thing you really need to worry about with the vrm and heat.



Edit:
Also is cool and quite disabled in the bios?
 

Waza

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2014
Location
Finland
I'm not so sure that motherboard can handle 95W CPUs at all. 4+2 power design without heat sink is really pushing it.
If you can find a heat sink for those mosfets and actively cool it with enough airflow you might be OK. BUT I recommend getting a better motherboard with decent size heatsink and preferably 6+2 phase power delivery if you can find one with that small of a form factor.
6+2 phase is not absolutely necesary if you plan to keep your chip at stock, but it will contribute for better stability and longetivity.
 

saturn

Disabled
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
I'm not so sure that motherboard can handle 95W CPUs at all. 4+2 power design without heat sink is really pushing it.
If you can find a heat sink for those mosfets and actively cool it with enough airflow you might be OK. BUT I recommend getting a better motherboard with decent size heatsink and preferably 6+2 phase power delivery if you can find one with that small of a form factor.
6+2 phase is not absolutely necesary if you plan to keep your chip at stock, but it will contribute for better stability and longetivity.
4+2, 6+2.... That's all grate.
But at the end of the day it's what the mosfets can out put.
You can have a mobo with 4+2 and the mosfet can output 200w where a mobo with 6+2 may have mosfets that can only handle 150w.

More often then not more mosfets is better, but not always.
Anyway I would first try adding a rear fan and making sure everything in the bios for power saving is disabled. Then I would look into buying a new mobo.
 

Johan45

Benching Team Leader Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Any of the FM2 boards I have used have BIOS settings to allow for more power to the CPU. But it would be a good idea to see how the OPs temps are prior to opening up the mobo.
 

Waza

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2014
Location
Finland
4+2, 6+2.... That's all grate.
But at the end of the day it's what the mosfets can out put.
You can have a mobo with 4+2 and the mosfet can output 200w where a mobo with 6+2 may have mosfets that can only handle 150w.

More often then not more mosfets is better, but not always.
Anyway I would first try adding a rear fan and making sure everything in the bios for power saving is disabled. Then I would look into buying a new mobo.

Mosfets are very sensitive to temperatures and lose a lot of their efficiency as temperatures raise. Even quality mosfets will easily lose 60-70% of their power delivery ability at extreme temperatures.
If those 4 fets are rated 50 amps in ambient(25c) they will likely operate around 20 amps or even less once around the throttling temperature (usually somewhere around ~120-140c)
More mosfets means less power per mosfet and will result in more efficient power delivery.
 

saturn

Disabled
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Mosfets are very sensitive to temperatures and lose a lot of their efficiency as temperatures raise. Even quality mosfets will easily lose 60-70% of their power delivery ability at extreme temperatures.
If those 4 fets are rated 50 amps in ambient(25c) they will likely operate around 20 amps or even less once around the throttling temperature (usually somewhere around ~120-140c)
More mosfets means less power per mosfet and will result in more efficient power delivery.
What you say is completely true. But some times motherboards with more mosfets will use cheap mosfets because they can get away with it do to the higher level of efficiently.
Ever seen a abit IX48 motherboard? They have a 5+1 setup and can handle a crazy amount of power and heat for the setup (can't recall how much). It all depends on the mosfets and cooling used.
For example, you could have one motherboards with a 4+1 setup with mosfets ratted a 70amp @30c with active cooling and another 6+2 setup with mosfets rated a 20amps @25c without heatsinks. I know you don't see these kind of setups used any more or use that often to begin with. But there are out there.

Anyway more often then not your are better off with more mosfets as you stated. Just have to remember that there are times when your better off with less do to a odd ball motherboard. The abit ix48 is one example.
 

Waza

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2014
Location
Finland
I am aware that properly designed low phase count power delivery can pack a punch. I owned DFI P965S Dark which was a decent overclocking board at the time on budget sporting 4+1 VRM design. I had watercooled Q6600 overclocked to 3.3GHz for everyday use with no problems.
That board had no VRM heat sink nor did it have any fans cooling the VRM and that board is still running in that configuration minus the watercooling as myfiance's computer.
I think that board is over 8 years old now.

The fact that the VRM of the OPs board is forcing the CPU to throttle to prevent catastrophic failure is a telltale sign that it was not designed to run "high end" APUs. The price of that board only reinforces this conclusion.
There is nothing wrong using that board but it needs a heat sink or very high airflow(which may or may not work).
The surface area of the mosfets themselfs is very likely too small to aircool them effectively without a heat sink. Fitting one on that board will be quite difficult because it has chokes and capacitors interfering with commonly sized aftermarket options.
 

OC4FUN/OC4LIFE

New Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Update

I am aware that properly designed low phase count power delivery can pack a punch. I owned DFI P965S Dark which was a decent overclocking board at the time on budget sporting 4+1 VRM design. I had watercooled Q6600 overclocked to 3.3GHz for everyday use with no problems.
That board had no VRM heat sink nor did it have any fans cooling the VRM and that board is still running in that configuration minus the watercooling as myfiance's computer.
I think that board is over 8 years old now.

The fact that the VRM of the OPs board is forcing the CPU to throttle to prevent catastrophic failure is a telltale sign that it was not designed to run "high end" APUs. The price of that board only reinforces this conclusion.
There is nothing wrong using that board but it needs a heat sink or very high airflow(which may or may not work).
The surface area of the mosfets themselfs is very likely too small to aircool them effectively without a heat sink. Fitting one on that board will be quite difficult because it has chokes and capacitors interfering with commonly sized aftermarket options.


I know this is a really old thread, but for people with similar systems looking for answers, here is some clarification, that Gigabyte mother is not compatible with Integrated Graphics, therfeor the throttling may be down to that.

A new motherboard would be the best way forward.

Also the P-states on AMD APUs automatically throttle down CPU frequency & voltage, whenever iGPU is under full load, this is AMD's solution to stay within the 95w TDP limit using something called APM (Advanced Power Management)

Getting AMSMSRTweaker & changing the P-states if you still experience throttling after getting a new motherboard will solve your problem, but only if you have heatsinks of VRMs as this will increase power draw, resulting in more heat and potential failure of VRMs.

Hopefully it isn't too old to post on this thread.

Link for motherboard comparison:

http://motherboards.specout.com/compare/6197-6238/MSI-A68HM-E33-V2-vs-GIGABYTE-GA-F2A68HM-DS2H

The Gigabyte GA-F2A68HM-DS2H clearly stated as not compatible with integrated graphics.
 

Johan45

Benching Team Leader Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
I know this is a really old thread, but for people with similar systems looking for answers, here is some clarification, that Gigabyte mother is not compatible with Integrated Graphics, therfeor the throttling may be down to that.

A new motherboard would be the best way forward.

Also the P-states on AMD APUs automatically throttle down CPU frequency & voltage, whenever iGPU is under full load, this is AMD's solution to stay within the 95w TDP limit using something called APM (Advanced Power Management)

Getting AMSMSRTweaker & changing the P-states if you still experience throttling after getting a new motherboard will solve your problem, but only if you have heatsinks of VRMs as this will increase power draw, resulting in more heat and potential failure of VRMs.

Hopefully it isn't too old to post on this thread.

Link for motherboard comparison:

http://motherboards.specout.com/compare/6197-6238/MSI-A68HM-E33-V2-vs-GIGABYTE-GA-F2A68HM-DS2H

The Gigabyte GA-F2A68HM-DS2H clearly stated as not compatible with integrated graphics.

Not sure where that site gets it's info but according to Gigabyte the 7870k is supported by that board and they don't put video out on their motherboards for decoration. It's just a low end board and IMO Gigabyte should be held accountable. Their track record with AMD lately has been spotty at best.
 

OC4FUN/OC4LIFE

New Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
Not sure where that site gets it's info but according to Gigabyte the 7870k is supported by that board and they don't put video out on their motherboards for decoration. It's just a low end board and IMO Gigabyte should be held accountable. Their track record with AMD lately has been spotty at best.

That is a very good point, I did a quick comparison between to similarly class boards but didn't go as far as to check on Gigabyte's official mobo+cpu compatibility page (my bad...).

I alos agree with your opinion that Gigabyte should be held accountable if it is listed as compatible.
As if they ever will, though... Maybe when that blue moon comes out.

I stand corrected.
 

Johan45

Benching Team Leader Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
I have seen a ton of issues arising from Giga boards or even Asrock . When the new FX and FX based CPUs came out the power draw was so significant that I think it caught many mobo manufacturers with their pants down. Some added a feature to the BIOS called HPC which would help with current based throttling but many of the manufacturers just never got on top of it . In the end the only "good" FX boards were the top two ASUS Sabertooth and CHV-z. There were a few others. My first FM2 board was a Gigabyte GA-F2A88X-UP4 and I quickly upgraded to the Crossblade since my ideas of overclocking aren't what you would call mainstream. I had much better luck and less frustration after making the switch.
 

OC4FUN/OC4LIFE

New Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
From seeing your experience & lighting fast replies, I have concluded that Overclockers is the place I will come to before ordering my next build.
Very informative, thank you.