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MSI K7D Master & Powersupply Problems

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Jen

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2000
I have a Pcpower & Cooling 450 watt powersupply which I have been useing in this computer. I have had random lockups and problems starting the computer or restarting. Siren noise from the onboard speaker. I would have to power it down several times to get it to start up correctly

When in bios my readings are
5.01 on 5 volt
11.91 on 12 volt

Ratings on this one is
5 volt is 50 amp
12 volt is 18 amp
3 volt is 40 amp [i believe]

Processors set at 1.8 volts at 2600+ mp


I recieved a Robantron 600 Watt Powersupply from someone for testing if the powersupply solved the problems I am experenceing I could purchase it from them. I had no problems booting up with this powersupply however my line voltages are lower yet

4.97 on 5 volt
11.73 on 12 volt

The Ratings on this powersupply is
60 amp on 5 volt
25 amp on 12 volt
40 amp on 3 volt

I had no problems restarting this computer at 16 x 150 and am currently useing it at this speed.

My question is what is the difference in these two powersupplys that allows the Robantron to work better [???] at lower voltages in bios?


I am very confused and dont like my 12 volt being this low


Devices I have on this computer is
DVDRAM
CDROM
CDRW
DVDROM

Two SCSI hard drives and one IDE


Any ideas?


Jen
 

aftermath

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
The Big Brother Nation
Its the beter 12 volt amp rating thats fixed it this is where the vrms for the cpus obtain there power. your 2 cpus probably need inexcess of 120w probably closer to 150w or more.


The computer needs stable voltages that are able to provide the power that it needs. the power is found by multiplyng the current by the voltage. the poweresuply is able to provide a more stable current -> a flow of electricity, however there is not quite the diffrence in pd accros your pc components they are happyer with the more stable current. if u have a dmm have a look at what your voltages are they may be diffrent. it also sounds like you had some bad caps in the old one and these weere not keeping stable voltages.

edit: a fast graphix card needs loads of juce too.
 
OP
J

Jen

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2000
I tried to run one instance of prime 95 back at 2600+ and computer locked up. So this robantron powersupply isnt going to be able hold up to this computer.

I did talk to pcpower and cooling and they stated i need more amps on the 12 volt side. That this powersupply isnt rated for dual processing with the newer cpu's.

Any suggestions out there for a powersupply that can handle all that i want?


Jen
 

wbedard

Registered
Joined
Dec 6, 2003
Same problem here

Hi Jen,

Unfortunately, I cannot offer a solution to your problem but I can offer you a couple more data points to go on. First of all, I have a setup very similar to yours. K7D w/ 2x MP2800+, Nvidia Quadro 980XGL video card and a 6x drive RAID array. I started out with an Enermax EG651P-VE series PSU and had the same problems you describe (exactly). After talking with cmcqustion, one suggestion he had was insufficient power. Having purposely purchased one of the more highly rated (watts and reputation) PSUs on the market at the time, I was having a difficult time accepting this suggestion. So, I picked up an Antec TrueControl 550 (don't ask - it fills another requirement, too) but I had the same problem with it. However, after removed a CPU and playing around with the voltages/temps on the remaining processor, the system is rock-solid and I believe that insufficient power is the culprit. However, I am likewise at a loss for a PSU that can handle the load. I am going to try and play around with running both PSUs seperately powering the RAID and MB and see if that helps. I'll be following this thread and hopefully, someone can suggest a PSU that can solves both our problems.

Bill
 

wbedard

Registered
Joined
Dec 6, 2003
Oh, BTW...

Jen,

I almost forgot, I was able to use both CPUs and be rock-solid when I was using a 100MHz FSB. So, if I can't find a suitable PSU, I will use the 133MHz FSB and just pin-mod the CPUs back to whatever speed gives me good stability (I'd hate to waste the extra capability, though). Just a suggestion.

Bill
 
OP
J

Jen

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2000
I am useing watercooling on this computer . My temps at idle are low 30s. Doesnt matter if i raise the speed of the processors higher the tempuratures at idle remain close to the same.

I am going to try a couple things like a AT powersupply to power my cdroms and drives. Then see if problem remains the same with this Pcpower . If it resolves it then I will need a stronger powersupply. However it doesnt I am looking at the powersupply again and asking why its not working


Jen
 

wbedard

Registered
Joined
Dec 6, 2003
Hmmm...

Hi Jen,

I might be showing some ignorance here but I wasn't putting forward the FSB solution from a temps point-of-view. Since my temps don't vary that much (~5degC) between 100 and 133MHz FSB, I was suggesting that the CPUs are drawing less power at the slower FSB. Less power should lighten the load on your PSU, etc.

Bill
 
OP
J

Jen

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2000
My Pcpower 450 decided to stop working on me . I am back to this robotran powersupply. Not sure what the Pcpower decided to do yet but it wont power up the computer now.



Jen
 

wbedard

Registered
Joined
Dec 6, 2003
Bummer...

Hi Jen,

Sorry to hear about your PSU. To update you on my setup, I am currently running with the Enermax PSU driving just the MB and a couple of case fans while the Antec PSU is driving everything else (RAID, DVD-RW, etc). In this configuration, the machine boots right up at 133MHz FSB and I only had to bump the voltage a bit (currently 1.675V) to establish initial stability. I'll do some extended testing tonight and post how it goes tomorrow (er, much later today...:>).

BTW, the PC Pwr&Cooling name may not be on your Christmas list for next year but I thought you might want to know that they have a 510W unit that has received uniformly excellent reviews and has specs overall higher than my Enermax 651W (530W max actual) PSU. It is expensive at ~$190 but it might be something you want to consider.

Bill
 

Rav

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2001
Location
Philthadelphia
I'm skeptical that the CPU's run off 12V. When I upgraded my CPU's from 1800Mhz Tbreds to 2100Mhz Bartons my 5V dropped dramatically (4.7 to 4.5). So much for Antec power. I will probably go Fortron in the future, I've heard so much good about them. Of course if you have the funds, the PCP&C will be superior.

-Rav
 

aftermath

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
The Big Brother Nation
my enermax is a 550 watt one and the voltages are fairly similar to what thye were when i had t-breads. i dont have the core voltage as hight tho. When i stop folding and seti (run both 1 each cpu) the 5 and 12 volt lines both rise. i think this is because they are both linked. my thinking that the vrms are powered by the 12 volt is because the manuel says "even with out an agp pro card fited u must use the 12 volt aux." sumit like taht any way im not at home with the manual or my pc.

edit: myn are 12.01 and 4.95-4.97 droping to 11.97 and 4.94-4.95 rearly does the voltage drop below those but iv seen 4.89 ish a few times but i dont spend too much time looking at them quick galance while primes runing to check they are ok thats it.
my ups reports that my systems pulling about 400-420 wats if i figer my screan is about 70w ish

edit 2: ide is poorly designed when u power up they all start at the same time scsi is superior because good controllers power up the dives in succession as apposed to simultaneously this reduces start up load. Some more expensive ide raid controllers do too I don’t have a clue if myn does.
In total I have 6 7200 rpm + 2 5400rpm disks 13 large (80mm+) case fans that all spin slowly 2 optical dives and a Radion 9800 pro.
My fans are run of a P.W.M. (pulse width modulator) this sends short 12volt bursts about 30 times a second.
 
Last edited:
OP
J

Jen

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2000
I will need to RMA my pcpower and cooling to see what went wrong with it.

The rateings on this powersupply was 550 watt max useage and 450 continious. Also the 3 volt and 5 volt line was rated at 300 watts. I thought I had a strong enough powersupply.


I am looking at the 510 watt model of pcpower but its hard to justify another 200 dollars for another powersupply. I know I used this one for 2 1/2 years and even then it cost me 200 dollars.


Jen
 

wbedard

Registered
Joined
Dec 6, 2003
Looking good...

Well, my system is fairing well so far. I let it run overnight with one instance of Prime95 across both CPUs and it held up fine. This would have locked it up eventually when I was using the Antec to run just the MB. BTW, I tried this current configuration on the suggestion that modern CPUs draw power off the 12V rail and the Enermax has a higher 12V rail (36A) than the Antec (24A). While both PSUs have similar "true" power ratings (~540W), the system would not run stable at 133MHz FSB with the Antec. When you factor in the dedicated 12V connections on modern dual MBs from MSI, Tyan, etc., it lends some credence to the claim that the CPUs are drawing from the 12V rail.

I am going to up the load later today with a couple of instances of Prime95 (one/CPU) and see how it goes. Honestly, I am giving some thought to just leaving two PSUs in the box. The reason is that with 6x WD hard drives, the cost for one PSU that could handle the startup load of the entire system probably won't be worth it. If the Enermax can handle the MB reliably, I'll be relatively happy.

On a sidenote, for systems that have very high 12V loads, are there any good 12V DC dedicated PSUs that could be adapted to a PC at a lower cost than a high-power PSU. It just occurs to me that large power supplies like we are discussing might have a lot more power going into the 3V and 5V rails than what we need. I didn't mention it earlier but PCP&C also has a 600W PSU but it only has a 24A 12V rail. It makes up for it with 70A's on the 5V rail. If all that power is for something like hard drives, etc., perhaps there are dedicated 5V PSUs that could handle big dedicated loads like that while allowing a smaller, cooler, quieter standard ATX PSU. Just a thought.

Bill
 

wbedard

Registered
Joined
Dec 6, 2003
Let's see...

To start off, I think everyone in this forum thinks highly of Fortron, especially since their PSUs don't cost and arm+leg. While I couldn't find the exact model you specified (maybe it's old or discontinued?), the closest ones to it would probably be these:

http://www.fsusa.com/Product/FSP550-60PLG.pdf
http://www.fsusa.com/Product/FSP550-60PLN.pdf

Both of these have pretty strong 12V rails (36A) and so should take care of booting your machine and keeping it up under load. While I might take issue over the figure for line ripple, I've never heard anyone hear really break a sweat over it so it probably doesn't matter that much. The Super Flower PSU you mentioned isn't talked about so often but I would imagine many people here are familiar with Dan from Dan's Data and he reviewed basically this same PSU a while back:

http://www.dansdata.com/sfpsu.htm

You can check out this PSU's specs on Super Flower's website here:

http://www.super-flower.com.tw/14cm_fan_psu.htm

The one thing I would caution you about is that it's 12V rail is much weaker than the Fortron (24A). That is the same rating as my Antec TrueControl 550 PSU and it could barely boot my setup and could not keep it stable under load. This was when the Antec was just powering the MB and everything else was on the Enermax. Since I think you are only using one PSU, I wouldn't bet on the Super Flower meeting your needs. Hope this helps!

Bill
 

wbedard

Registered
Joined
Dec 6, 2003
Awe shucks...

Well, don't mind me - I need to make a correction. I don't know where I got that 24A figure from for the Super Flower. What I "meant" to say was that the exact model you specified (and Dan reviewed) wasn't listed on their website. However, you can probably see that the 500W PSU they do list shows a 30A capacity on the 12V rail. That's somewhere between the 36A of the Fortron and my Enermax, which I might add is working quite nicely powering just my MB. Since 36A wasn't enough for my Enermax to keep the whole system stable under load, that could be due to several factors but the bottom line is that it might work for you. I should also add that caveat to my comments about the Fortron PSU. In short, 36A on the 12V rail works for me as long as it only has to deal with the MB. Whether it will suffice to power your whole system I don't know.

Bill
 

wbedard

Registered
Joined
Dec 6, 2003
Well...

I should repeat that the model you originally found is not listed on Fortron's website and it happens that their are some substantial differences between that one and the PDF files I linked to. For one thing, I must apologize since I didn't notice that both PSUs that I linked to were EPS12V units. That is yet another standard for providing extra 12V power to the MB. Tyan used it on their initial AMD duallie MBs and, at the time, their were only a couple of companies who made them. Allthough, I think I have read where people have tried to use an ATX PSU with a EPS12V MB (although not vice versa), I don't think it would be a good idea in your case. Sorry for the confusion.

As for the newegg reporting different specs than Fortron's website, as long as the model numbers agree exactly, I would give the nod to Fortron. I think all of us has seen at least one online retailer misquote some aspect of a product they were selling. If in doubt, you can always call both the manufacturer and the retailer for clarification. It might save you the hassle of sending something back that you're not happy with.

Bill
 

2los

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Location
LA, CA
Try running 2 PSUs I have an 550 for my system and a dedicated 430 for the SCSI hdd in my dual Xeon. Solved my power probs :D
 
OP
J

Jen

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2000
I am wanting to use a single powersupply cause I will be building a small computer case to fit on my desktop. I plan on useing some low cfm fans to keep the inside of the computer cool enough for the hard drives and motherboard etc. I am running water cooling so dont have the problem of heatsinks on the processors. The case I will be building will be made of oak

I found this converter cable that converts 24 pin to 20 pin. I am wondering if this will work for the Fortron 550 watt model

24-Pin ATX Power Supply Convert to 20-Pin Motherboard Power Cable


If it would work then I would plan on purchaseing the Fortron with the converter and use it for this computer



Jen