My First OC'ing adventure : Phenom I x4 9650

[QuietIce]

If you could post the CPU-Z Memory and SPD tabs I might be able to help. The SPD tab will have the timings and model number along with the voltage. Do you have a setting for vDIMM??? That could be really helpful.

244 is kind of a bad spot for DDR2 RAM. Most DDR2-800 RAM won't run DDR2-976 unless the timings are loosened. My Dominators will run as high as ~960 (480 MHz) but even they give out at that point and need loose timings ...

 

[dennisdietz]

The CPUz SPD is in the screenshot in my earlier post. It's crucial DDR2-800. At 400 timings listed as 6-6-6-18-24, at 333 listed as 5-5-5-15-20. Voltage listed at 1.8v. I have no bios called vDIMM but have a Memory OverVoltage as the last setting under memory in jumperfree. It has auto the starts at 1.85 and increases by something like 0.00653 ish volts, up to 2.1 or 2.3 iirc.

I though using a 400 divider tight with that high a CPU bus was iffy, considering it's almost 25% overclocking the RAM.

Another question, Multitasking while running Prime a confounding variable? Seems like it's asking for CPU confusion, especially with Firefox. I do thar sometimes and suspect it's a bad idea.

 

[QuietIce]

Crucial? Hmmm, don't know about them as much - I'm kinda' stuck on Corsair and OCZ and the Corsair is what's in your sig. Like I said, though, even my Dominators start fizzling out around 480 MHz and you're pushing 496 MHz so you're probably stuck with the 6-6-6 timings and DDR2-333 setting, which is already over 400 MHz. I would set the vDIMM to 1.85v - I always add 0.05v to the stock RAM voltage and set it manually even if I'm not overclocking the RAM.


Prime95 should run OK with other programs but you never know. I think it's a matter of Priority (as in Task Manager) that may confuse things ...

 

[dennisdietz]

Opps, I need to change my signature Yup, the screenshot in post #3 is correct for memory type and SPD.

So, how does memory overclocking work? I have DDR2-800. The 2 means dual channel and that would be 400mhz per channel stock? If I set the divider to 333 (a 5/3 divider) and have a CPUClock of 244, then my ram is running at 407MHz DDR or 814 DDR2. Is the OC based on the "stock" 800 or on the divider setting of 666? IE, is it barely OCed or a lot OC'd?

QuietIce said:

You're probably right about the cpuNB speed holding you back.

I'm still confused about where the CPU-NB is displayed. What is the NB Frequency as shown in the Memory tab of CPUz? Since its in the memory tab, I take it that is actually the CPU-NB since that contains the memory controller of the cpu and all data goes through there first.

The Chipset - the actual NB- is only related to video, either routing data from the CPU to the PCI cards or from the CPU and processing it in the IGP on the NB. Is that right? So, If I am running at the threshold of the CPUNB I need to raise the CPU-NB voltage. IE, if the bottleneck is memory related and my memory is not the problem, the CPU-NB is. If video is limited then the issue is the chipset and I should raise the IGP speed and or the Chipset voltage. If I had a PCI video card, NB voltage and HT link would be more important.

Do I have all that right?

The system is so much faster at and above ~2.6 that I will be happy to settle with any OC there that gives me teh best compromise between processor and RAM speed and is completely stable with the least stress (heat/voltage) to the system for the next couple of years. I am enjoying and learning quite a lot though in the process of pushing it higher for now though, and thanks for all the help thus far!

 

[QuietIce]

So, how does memory overclocking work? I have DDR2-800. The 2 means dual channel and that would be 400mhz per channel stock? If I set the divider to 333 (a 5/3 divider) and have a CPUClock of 244, then my ram is running at 407MHz DDR or 814 DDR2. Is the OC based on the "stock" 800 or on the divider setting of 666? IE, is it barely OCed or a lot OC'd?

The actual "overclock" is what's above 400 MHz (because you have DDR2-800 RAM) so, in this case, your OC is 7 MHz. Unfortunately the next step up is way out of most DDR2-800 range. If your CPU were the limiting factor here you could drop the CPU multiplier and increase the clock speed to overclock the RAM higher. As it is you have few choices.

I'm still confused about where the CPU-NB is displayed. What is the NB Frequency as shown in the Memory tab of CPUz? Since its in the memory tab, I take it that is actually the CPU-NB since that contains the memory controller of the cpu and all data goes through there first.

The NB Frequency shown on the Memory tab is the cpuNB speed.

The Chipset - the actual NB- is only related to video, either routing data from the CPU to the PCI cards or from the CPU and processing it in the IGP on the NB. Is that right? So, If I am running at the threshold of the CPUNB I need to raise the CPU-NB voltage. IE, if the bottleneck is memory related and my memory is not the problem, the CPU-NB is. If video is limited then the issue is the chipset and I should raise the IGP speed and or the Chipset voltage. If I had a PCI video card, NB voltage and HT link would be more important.

Do I have all that right?

Well, PCIe cards, actually - but yea. PCI comes off the SB and there are still PCI video cards around.

NB voltage seldom comes into play unless you are using an IGP, since there is no speed on the NB chipset except what speeds and memory the IGP has. If you're using a PCIe video card only the HT Link speed matters and you have to have dual high-end cards or better to need more than the stock 2000 MHz on that. In fact, everyday cards running normal monitor settings only need 14-1600 MHz ...

 

[dennisdietz]

The actual "overclock" is what's above 400 MHz (because you have DDR2-800 RAM) so, in this case, your OC is 7 MHz. Unfortunately the next step up is way out of most DDR2-800 range. If your CPU were the limiting factor here you could drop the CPU multiplier and increase the clock speed to overclock the RAM higher. As it is you have few choices.

Thats what I suspected.

The NB Frequency shown on the Memory tab is the cpuNB speed.

Ahh, I did not get that until today. To bad my CPU-NB milti seems locked at 9 on this board.

NB voltage seldom comes into play unless you are using an IGP, since there is no speed on the NB chipset except what speeds and memory the IGP has. If you're using a PCIe video card only the HT Link speed matters and you have to have dual high-end cards or better to need more than the stock 2000 MHz on that. In fact, everyday cards running normal monitor settings only need 14-1600 MHz ...

I do use the IGP and do not have an actual graphics card, nor a real need for one. I have experienced no obvious graphics issues, stuttering, etc. I currently have the GPU OC set at 375 (stock 350) adn the chipset +50mV over. Think I should leave this?

At this point, I am limited either by the CPU bus or the CPU-NB locked multi, or so it seems. I'll certainly keep experimenting. I may try next to drop the CPU multi way down (i think 6 is my lowest) and up the CPU bus. The only problem is that that still raises the cpuNB. But it would seem to me that if the cpuNb is limiting things, I still wont be able to boost the CPU clock much more, while if its actually the CPU limiting things, I might be able to squeeze more from the RAM, but probably Only insignificant amounts?

What I really need is an unlocked CPU multi

 

[trents]

With some of the budget boards like yours it seems the CPUNB speed is in lock step with the HT Link speed. What happens to the CPUNB speed when you lower the HT Link speed? You will not be sacrificing any real performance as long as your HT Link speed stays at 1000 or above anyway, unless (as has been pointed out) you are running two high end graphics cards in SLI or Crossfire at high res. Note: In CPU-z the "NB" is a reference to the CPUNB, not the IGP NB.

 

[dennisdietz]

The cpuNB is locked at 9x and is not affected my the HT multiplier.

POST will not happen above 247, regardless of any voltage, RAM, HT, CPU multiple, etc. Whether that is a CPU limitation or the cpuNB limitation, I do not know I've seen other with this chip at cpuNB 2400+, but that is sort of irrevelent.

I had the ram running at 460'for a while and that seemed stable. Maybe I'll drop the Core and try higher Ram
oc for a while, playing with a benchmark software to compare speeds, as well as consider observational differences and see which I like better.

I think 245x11.5 is my max with his particular chip and board.

 

[trents]

Is there a bios update available that might fix that locked CPUNB problem?

 

[QuietIce]

The cpuNB is locked at 9x and is not affected my the HT multiplier.

POST will not happen above 247, regardless of any voltage, RAM, HT, CPU multiple, etc. Whether that is a CPU limitation or the cpuNB limitation, I do not know I've seen other with this chip at cpuNB 2400+, but that is sort of irrevelent.

I had the ram running at 460'for a while and that seemed stable. Maybe I'll drop the Core and try higher Ram
oc for a while, playing with a benchmark software to compare speeds, as well as consider observational differences and see which I like better.

I think 245x11.5 is my max with his particular chip and board.

If you dropped the CPU multiplier and still couldn't clock any higher then it's either the reference clock, which is a motherboard thing, or the cpuNB. Since your cpuNB multiplier is locked it's a moot point, either way you can't get the RAM higher without decreasing CPU speed ...

 

[dennisdietz]

Is there a bios update available that might fix that locked CPUNB problem?

I've not found any descriptions of what bus updraft for my board address. Ive asked over at the Asus forum but as yet, no reply.

I may try out the stability of ~230x11.5 and ram at 400 divider. If it's stable, I'll try benchmarking to compare. Any good benchmark suggestions for this?

 

[QuietIce]

PCMark and SiSandra are good benchmarks for the overall system. 3DMark and Cinebench are good video benches ...

 

[trents]

I've not found any descriptions of what bus updraft for my board address.

Huh? What's that?

 

[dennisdietz]

Thanks Quiteice!

Sorry trents, my phone was auto correcting spelling. I meant, I have not found much info as to what bios updates address, but none of the descriptions mention anything about overclocking, multis, etc. I'm hesitant to try updating the bios (never flashed a bios before) as I don't want to mess with anything currently running smooth and, apparently Asus boards can not be rolled back well.

 

[trents]

Sorry trents, my phone was auto correcting spelling.

That's funny! I thought your were from the UK or something and were using alternate stuffy terminology.

 

[dennisdietz]

UPDATES:

I've played around with this a bit more and teh wall is definately 245x11.5. I'm currently running at 2.7GHz: 235x11.5 with HT Freq at 1411, cpuNB at 2115, and DRAM Freq at 470: 6-6-6-18-24 with 400 divider. I've run 2hrs of Memtest86+ with 0 errors and up to 4.5 hrs of Prime95 with no issues. Temps seem good to me, 36C (mosfets)/32C (board)/30C (CPU) at 75F ambient and 54/33/47 at 100% load. Temps drop from there under load in relation to room temp (if room is ~65F, all temps ~5C cooler). I've added a second front fan in, a side fan in, and a third fan connected perpendicular to the side fan, blowing straight up onto the mosfets and to the top case fan (out). Temps did not really change with all of that. I think I can run the fans at a lower setting though and still get good flow with less noise.

Halo 2 and QuakeII work great and never get the temps above ~35 even after a couple hours. Added bonus, virtualization (virtualBox with Win 7) is much, much faster!

I've email ASUStek, asked on their forum, and submitted a tech question form about bios revisions to this board and still have not heard back. That kind of annoys me.
Thanks again for all the help!

 

[trents]

PCMark and SiSandra are good benchmarks for the overall system. 3DMark and Cinebench are good video benches ...

Isn't Cinebench a pure CPU benchmark?

 

[QuietIce]

Isn't Cinebench a pure CPU benchmark?

http://www.maxon.net/index.php?id=162&L=0

 

[trents]

I've only used the Cinebench to render the cool motor cycle graphic and that part or that version seems to be for the purpose of benching the CPU.

 

[QuietIce]

I thinks it's two discrete tests, if I remember my reading correctly. Never been much for graphics so that program isn't a big deal to me, really. I might use 3DMark to measure the difference between single and SLI'ed 7900 GTX's but that's as far as I'll be taking any of that stuff for awhile. I'm more concerned with CUDA performance on the newer nVidia cards ...