My lapping story

[TaCoSwInDeZ]

Well I was merely stating that rougher surfaces compared to mirror like shine when using a thicker TIM is superior in my own tests, just as was previously stated. I should have made that more clear in my last sentence.

 

[bing]

Hmm...I just tested this theory myself. Before I installed the stock HSF onto my I5 the first time I mirror polished just the heatsink like I mentioned using IC7 TIM. But out of curiousity I managed to find a peice of 400 grit sandpaper and so I removed the heatsink and quickly hit it with the 400 grit to get rid of the dullness and what do ya know, using a think TIM like IC7 defintely likes the rougher surface. I've gained about 2-4°C in full load temps. No doubt that a slightly rougher surface yeilds better temperatures.

Great result there, glad you "get" it !


Here, simple explanation :

A 1 x 1 inch square of "PERFECT SMOOTH" & flat surface without grooves or dents has the exactly the surface area of 1 square inch right ? Ok, nothing new here....move along ...

....but now think of this ....

Another 1 x 1 inch square, but with textured surface (still flat though), it has "A LOT MORE" surface area than the 1st example above. And this is a fact.

Cooling is a about surface contact/exposure, the bigger surface exposed for thermal transfer, the better it will dissipates the heat.

So the ideal situation is the surface of both contact points to have an "average" groove's size that is "optimal" to the TIM's "average" particle size. Finding the sweet spot is another story.

Now, regarding the flatness, if you could make one surface concave while the other convex, but with perfect fit between them, that will be fine too. Of course its way too difficult and not practical, making both flat is heck a lot easier.

 

[xtreeme]

Well I was merely stating that rougher surfaces compared to mirror like shine when using a thicker TIM is superior in my own tests, just as was previously stated. I should have made that more clear in my last sentence.

Yes that is pretty obvious
It is cruicial as I said earlier to use the correct type TIM, thats why I bought all I could get hold of and tested them personally (and I have no producer hanging on my head trying to skew the results either - belive me : some producers are terrible on pressing the testers and I know some sites where you should never trust a review).

AS5, ShinEtsu and alikes are really useless on fine surfaces - you will get better results with the cheapest silicone tim available than with thick tim's.

 

[CompuTamer]

Which tim did you use ? - EDIT : sorry now I see which tim you used...

You are really talking against physical facts - the best heattransfer were if you could lap the surfaces so there were none groves/pores left and use no tim at all.
TIM does not really increase the heattransfer vs. two perfect surfaces - not even CoolLaboratorys MetalPad does that - and certainly not a ordinary tim

I suspect your cooler/cpu is lapped flat ; but it doesn't have the same height over the ihs anymore, that can easily happen if you don't use the 8 movement when lapping.
Or are inexperienced with the procedure.

In the first year at marine engineer school lapping was one of the things we had to learn, and I promise you - it is not THAT easy to get it correct as many of you seem to belive.
OP here have tipped the cpu under the sanding - I can see it of the pictures

Indeed i have... quite a bit lol
Most of that was in the beginning when i was getting impatient with the copper... i can't believe how bad my IHS was :O

 

[CURTO]

I did try to have a figure 8, but i kept on messing up the pattern :/

It was my first lapping job, and i'll probably redo it in a few months/weeks. I just ran out of time today, and figured that i'd go ahead and see what it got me. I got a 5 to 20C difference depending on the load and if the stupid heater was running.

you
*******
lol jks
wtf!
EVERYONE seems to just do a lapping job and its FINE
you know? FINE
they get the temp drop, the cpu is fine, and every goes and has a beer
ME on the other hand
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo thats bull**** man
SOMEHOW (i dunno if anyone on this thread knows about this) i do the same thing
simple lapping job, did everything right
and i cant even get my ****ing cpu to work
no idea whats wrong with it
oooooooooooooooooo
good job though, glad yours worked with no problems

 

[CompuTamer]

I actually remember reading your thread... i had the same problem with mine, then i just wiped the pads down with an alcohol swab and it worked

Try that and see if it helps you any

 

[TaCoSwInDeZ]

Hey curto I have an idea on your situation. When I was installing my new I5 Proc. into my Mobo's socket I noticed the pads that were on top of the cpu surrounding the IHS. Do you think perhaps some dust from you lapping job could be shorting some of those out? It wouldn't take much just enough to slightly form a conductive path between them. Same goes for the other pads on the bottom including the caps and resistors on the bottom of the CPU. You might try cleaning your CPU thoroughly with rubbing alcohol and a toothbrush. After all since you have already condemned it what do you have to lose?

EDIT ^ dang you beat me to it

 

[xtreeme]

Indeed i have... quite a bit lol
Most of that was in the beginning when i was getting impatient with the copper... i can't believe how bad my IHS was :O

Well you and a lot of others are not to blame, if the blame is gonna be put anywhere it would be on those guides that makes it look "so easy".

I'm not gonna pinpoint any special guide - I think very often the problem is that people that know how to do it take for granted that everybody have basic skills that is needed to fully understand the sanding process.

But that is wrong of course, it is a fact that we have different skills/education and so on - without looking down - or up at each other. This is real life situations - we are all different with different skills and trades.

I think you did good CompuTamer, and I think you should leave your cpu like it is, you did get a better result after all - most ppl will get better temperatures since the ihs's is terrible fro mthe start. That is if they don't sand it down too much.

But when you hunting .x degrees you will need at least a micrometer, ideally a thickness measurement instrument, a flat surface lapping plate (a thick glass plate is actually ok) - have the skills needed and a lot of patience.

If you don't have this tools you will end up with a IHS that almost never have the same thickness.

The natural result is - a surface that are not equal in thickness - also height - will not be very good for thin tims. And a very fine surface is not very good for thick tim's - therefore someone misunderstand this problem to that "a coarse surface is better" - while the fact is that their ihs hasn't the same height.

Just think of it - your ihs might be thinner/lower at one of the corners

 

[xtreeme]

and i cant even get my ****ing cpu to work

You should also chech the cpu contacts on your motherboard... if you were unlucky during mounting you might have bent one of them.
You will spot it as an "uneven pattern" in the socket - not very easy too see if you haven't seen it before

 

[CompuTamer]

Well you and a lot of others are not to blame, if the blame is gonna be put anywhere it would be on those guides that makes it look "so easy".

I'm not gonna pinpoint any special guide - I think very often the problem is that people that know how to do it take for granted that everybody have basic skills that is needed to fully understand the sanding process.

But that is wrong of course, it is a fact that we have different skills/education and so on - without looking down - or up at each other. This is real life situations - we are all different with different skills and trades.

I think you did good CompuTamer, and I think you should leave your cpu like it is, you did get a better result after all - most ppl will get better temperatures since the ihs's is terrible fro mthe start. That is if they don't sand it down too much.

But when you hunting .x degrees you will need at least a micrometer, ideally a thickness measurement instrument, a flat surface lapping plate (a thick glass plate is actually ok) - have the skills needed and a lot of patience.

If you don't have this tools you will end up with a IHS that almost never have the same thickness.

The natural result is - a surface that are not equal in thickness - also height - will not be very good for thin tims. And a very fine surface is not very good for thick tim's - therefore someone misunderstand this problem to that "a coarse surface is better" - while the fact is that their ihs hasn't the same height.

Just think of it - your ihs might be thinner/lower at one of the corners

Might be nothing, i can look at it from the side and see that lol

But it's only the very edges and the corners. From what i could tell with the ketchup and dye tests, it's pretty flat

 

[CURTO]

I actually remember reading your thread... i had the same problem with mine, then i just wiped the pads down with an alcohol swab and it worked

Hey curto I have an idea on your situation. When I was installing my new I5 Proc. into my Mobo's socket I noticed the pads that were on top of the cpu surrounding the IHS. Do you think perhaps some dust from you lapping job could be shorting some of those out? It wouldn't take much just enough to slightly form a conductive path between them. Same goes for the other pads on the bottom including the caps and resistors on the bottom of the CPU. You might try cleaning your CPU thoroughly with rubbing alcohol and a toothbrush. After all since you have already condemned it what do you have to lose?

pads.. what do you guys mean? i cleaned the cpu on the heat-spreader side (the shiny side) with alcohol
oh by the way i dont wanna change this threads topic to 'helping curto with his oddly ****ed cpu'
but you guys have suggested something new to try so im interested lol

 

[CompuTamer]

The pads are the contacts on the top and bottom of the CPU. Just little dots of metal that touch the pins on the mobo.

 

[xtreeme]

Might be nothing, i can look at it from the side and see that lol

But it's only the very edges and the corners. From what i could tell with the ketchup and dye tests, it's pretty flat

well... how much of the IHS surface area do you think you have lost ?? 10 -15 % ?? more ??

 

[xtreeme]

pads.. what do you guys mean? i cleaned the cpu on the heat-spreader side (the shiny side) with alcohol
oh by the way i dont wanna change this threads topic to 'helping curto with his oddly ****ed cpu'
but you guys have suggested something new to try so im interested lol

Pads ??? Well I will rather call it contacts

 

[TaCoSwInDeZ]

Actually if you wanted to be technical you could call them contact pins in the socket and contact pads on the CPU itself Also dont forget the contacts on the IHS of the CPU those were the ones I was talking about since they are exposed on the side that is being lapped.

 

[CompuTamer]

well... how much of the IHS surface area do you think you have lost ?? 10 -15 % ?? more ??

Not the slightest clue lol

I just know that it's running a lot cooler than it did before.

 

[CURTO]

Pads ??? Well I will rather call it contacts

ahhhhhhhhhh ok
well the good news is i got my cpu working lol
no more help needed
issue was ram
although i still havent gotten a comp working yet cause i think the mobo doesnt like the ram..
like ill get some ram related errors and then freeze and then yea etc
then i got a virus somehow (never gotten one before) and nothing can find it and ugh
so im formatting again lol
if i get the ram error ill have to buy compatible ram
i wanna make sure my other (brand new cpu) and gigabyte board still work with the new ram too (so i can sell)

has anyone else noticed the effort i have to go to just to share my lapping story?
****ing hell i just wanna see some before and after temps to share
and this unknown force is stopping me..
i think i need to lap my megahalems too, the surface is fairly not flat (you can see it )

 

[K2edg]

I've just done this mod myself and i've found the Cooler is quite easily moved on the CPU? Do you find this at all? I'm tempted to put a washer under the clamp but i need to make sure its not simply because the two surfaces are flatter/smoother and the Past is acting like grease allowing the two to easly move.

Also if it is "Loose" do you think i'd see a better heat transfer if i tighten it up or as long as its making good contact its not getting any better?

BTW sorry for the bit of a Hijack

 

[TF2]

I'd like to try this but I have a stock fan so it would be kinda worthless.