NAS box build - reconfig of old gaming rig

[Eichhorn18]

Hey guys,

I recently took a work trip to Northern Canada and was in a remote camp for three weeks. I brought my external HDD with my stuff on it to keep me entertained. The HDD is about 5 years old, seagate 500GB usb. It's worked well for me up till now. While I was sitting in my camp room, I had the overwhelming sense of how devastated I would be if the drive ever died and I lost all my stuff.

So began the research into NAS, and has led me to start a project to build my own NAS and reconfigure my now 4 year old gaming rig.

The Goal:

1. Either use my current gaming rig detailed in my sig below with a few new parts to make a NAS box (buying any new drives and RAID cards) OR buy completely new parts for a NAS box.

2. If I use the parts from my current gaming rig, I would like to start a new build on a gaming rig.

The Question:

I'm looking for your help to recommend what I can or cannot do with my current rig in terms of a NAS box. My goals for the NAS box are:

-redundency in data protection
-hi-speed data transfers to several computers at my home
-have usable storage of about 4 - 5 TB
-be able to connect to my PC AND my gf's mac book, AND my xbox (hope this one is doable)

What I've done so far:

I've read up on FreeNAS, ZFS etc. and some requirements for hardware. I've watched videos of people's setups and configurations. Tried to educate myself on this stuff but now am looking for some specific answers.


All advice, criticisms, and otherwise chatter about this is welcome and appreciated.


Thx
Eichhorn18

 

[Automata]

I read your post a few times, but I'm not quite sure what your question is. Your "The Question" section does not contain any questions.

If your old gaming rig is the hardware in your signature, that is massive overkill for a NAS. Sharing files takes very little processing power. I would look at adding another set of 2x2gb of RAM or upgrading the current set, especially if you use a setup with ZFS. That board doesn't have built in video, but I would suggest dropping the 4870 and putting a very low power card in. The power supply could also be replaced with a much smaller unit. The case should be swapped out with something smaller/more appropriate (the Antec 300 is a good/cheap choice). The audio card should be removed and I would suggest putting the stock heatsink back on the processor.

What is your budget for this server?

You list the space you'd like now, but have you considered how much you will need in the future? This is actually very important because you need to build your server around that concept. For example, if you have the system completely full of drives now and need to add more, you'd need to make major changes to accommodate new drives.

What operating systems are you familiar with?
What operating system are you willing to work with?
Do you want a server that you just slap together through a web interface and forget about it or would you rather "get your hands dirty" configuring all the services you need and customizing the system to your exact specification? The former is easier to setup, but the developers make assumptions for you, which could be frustrating. The latter gives you vastly more control over the system, but will obviously require more time, patience, and knowledge on your part. Personally, all my servers are running full blown Linux installs designed to do exactly what I need them to.

What kind of data are you going to be storing on this? Is it just going to be backups? Media? This seems like an unimportant question, but it isn't.

Something also to consider about this setup. RAID is not a backup. Additionally, you are going to be running all this data in a single location. What happens if you have a nasty power surge? What about a fire? The answer is likely catastrophic data loss. I would highly suggest checking out off-site storage for critical data. I've used Backblaze in the past and currently use (and highly recommend) CrashPlan.

 

[Eichhorn18]

I read your post a few times, but I'm not quite sure what your question is. Your "The Question" section does not contain any questions.

If your old gaming rig is the hardware in your signature, that is massive overkill for a NAS. Sharing files takes very little processing power. I would look at adding another set of 2x2gb of RAM or upgrading the current set, especially if you use a setup with ZFS. That board doesn't have built in video, but I would suggest dropping the 4870 and putting a very low power card in. The power supply could also be replaced with a much smaller unit. The case should be swapped out with something smaller/more appropriate (the Antec 300 is a good/cheap choice). The audio card should be removed and I would suggest putting the stock heatsink back on the processor.

I appreciate your objective opinion. My question should have been generally stated: "What do you think of this and how can I make this work?"
You've answered a big question--namely that my current hardware would be overkill for a NAS. In that case, would be be more advisable to focus on a completely new build?

What is your budget for this server?

In the case of building a completely new system for this... I would like to spend no more than $750.

You list the space you'd like now, but have you considered how much you will need in the future? This is actually very important because you need to build your server around that concept. For example, if you have the system completely full of drives now and need to add more, you'd need to make major changes to accommodate new drives.

Yes. Good point. I would like to allow for some expandability. Currently I don't see a need for a 20TB system, but having the option to easily expand, both from a hardware perspective and ease from a software perspective.

What operating systems are you familiar with?
What operating system are you willing to work with?
Do you want a server that you just slap together through a web interface and forget about it or would you rather "get your hands dirty" configuring all the services you need and customizing the system to your exact specification? The former is easier to setup, but the developers make assumptions for you, which could be frustrating. The latter gives you vastly more control over the system, but will obviously require more time, patience, and knowledge on your part. Personally, all my servers are running full blown Linux installs designed to do exactly what I need them to.

I am not familiar with Linux although recently I have thought about getting into it. I am not opposed to learning something new. If I was picky about this stuff I would have bought a prebuilt box by Synology or Drobo. I want to build it myself and tweak it because I enjoy the challenge--any hopefully save a buck compared to these prebuilt solutions.

What kind of data are you going to be storing on this? Is it just going to be backups? Media? This seems like an unimportant question, but it isn't.

The largest use will be media. Photos, video, audio. Then documents--software backups, etc. I have a large cache of PDF's that needs to be secured.

WRT RAID not being a backup... I agree, its not foolproof and 100% secure. I will cross that bridge when I figure out this first level.



Given the budget above, what is the best option and configuration that I should be considering? Should I abandon the plan to use components from my current gaming rig? If so--what components should I be considering buying and why.

Given that I am not familiar with Linux, are there other options available other than the "FreeNAS" solution? How easy are these to setup?

How easy are the Linux solutions to set up? Are they able to interface with PC and mac simultaneously?

Where can I go to learn about how to set this stuff up? I've already google searched all this but am interested in peoples opinion.

Thanks.

 

[Automata]

In the case of building a completely new system for this... I would like to spend no more than $750.

Don't mistake my use of "overkill" as a negative term. The links in my signature attest to that. I simply meant that the system is more than enough to meet the requirements of what you need it to do. Whether or not you should get different hardware is your decision, but anything you buy today is going to be just as fast or faster, so I see no reason to replace it.

I am not familiar with Linux although recently I have thought about getting into it. I am not opposed to learning something new. If I was picky about this stuff I would have bought a prebuilt box by Synology or Drobo. I want to build it myself and tweak it because I enjoy the challenge--any hopefully save a buck compared to these prebuilt solutions.

This leaves the option open for a full install of whichever operating system you want, or you could go with a "prebuilt" NAS operating system, such as FreeNAS. The problem is, I can not tell you which to pick and honestly speaking, I can't even give a suggestion. I'm in the midst of writing a review for FreeNAS at the moment and it is working beautifully for what it was designed for. Problems will occur if you want it to do more than what the developers originally designed it to do, which is where running a full operating system has its benefits. This is something you need to decide for yourself. Remember that you can install an operating system, format the drives, and install something else.

WRT RAID not being a backup... I agree, its not foolproof and 100% secure. I will cross that bridge when I figure out this first level.

But here is the thing, it is important to consider now. You need to make sure you have the entire "picture" taken into consideration before making a decision. Otherwise, you will be a month or two down the road (sooner or later), something will go wrong, and you will say "Uh oh, I didn't think of that...". Now you are in a situation that could have been prevented.

RAID is protection of disk failure, hence the name Redundant Array of Independent Disks. If a drive fails, the data is spread across the drives in a way that no information is lost. However, if you delete or overwrite data on the array, it instantly propagates to all disks. No RAID level is ever going to protect you from accidental deletion/writes, viruses, software-level data corruption, etc. You need a system in place before anything happens, otherwise you will suffer catastrophic data loss.

Given the budget above, what is the best option and configuration that I should be considering? Should I abandon the plan to use components from my current gaming rig? If so--what components should I be considering buying and why.

I stand by my suggestion to keep your hardware and do some slight tweaks to make it more ideal for a server, as in my previous post. With the cost benefit of software RAID, you can put your budget almost entirely towards disks and probably have quite a bit left over.

Given that I am not familiar with Linux, are there other options available other than the "FreeNAS" solution? How easy are these to setup?

There are many options available, yes. Are some easier to setup than others? Yes, probably, but I would put them on a similar level. FreeNAS (and similar operating systems) are aimed towards a crowd that wants their server to "just work", so it is going to be pretty simple.

How easy are the Linux solutions to set up? Are they able to interface with PC and mac simultaneously?

This is a question that has a million answers. Ask me and I will say that I can have a Linux server reinstalled, updated, and configured faster than any Windows install out there. Talk to someone else, and they will tell you about the horrors they had while trying to get it to work.

It all comes down to how patient you are and how much time you have to get it setup. When I switched my server to Linux many years ago, it was painful, I will be completely honest with you. I persevered by learning more about the operating system and getting it configured better for my environment. Now, I wouldn't even consider using anything else for a bare-metal system.

You asked me how to learn about these topics. The answer is to use them. If your server is going to use Samba, you don't know how to use it, and subsequently the server isn't working, you are going to be pretty motivated to learn. However, if you have a fall-back where you just restart into Windows, you may be prone to putting it off.

To share files out to Windows/Mac/Linux, you would need an extremely popular package called Samba. Once configured, your clients would connect to it just like any other Windows share.

 

[Eichhorn18]

There are many options available, yes. Are some easier to setup than others? Yes, probably, but I would put them on a similar level. FreeNAS (and similar operating systems) are aimed towards a crowd that wants their server to "just work", so it is going to be pretty simple.

It's funny you left a link to that project. Before I read your reply here, I spent the last hour reading about your project. Very insightful... from what I gather from that and your comments above--you're saying that FreeNAS is not in and of itself the best option and may be prone to some difficulties. It may be of equal value to simply set up a server? I've never build a server or dealt with that kind of thing before. Correct me if I'm wrong but--Essentially a NAS solution is a file server without the ability to interface using an OS? If this is the case, NAS neems like a bandaid solution to a larger issue, a short-cut? If NAS is nothing more than a redundant array of discs that repair themselves with a web based interface, why should I consider it?

To share files out to Windows/Mac/Linux, you would need an extremely popular package called Samba. Once configured, your clients would connect to it just like any other Windows share.

Where should I begin?

WRT hardware.. my goal financially by making use of my current system was to free up funds for a new build for a main workstation. I have long wanted to rebuild and get into watercooling. If I can make use of my current components and spend a bit on storage, that is ideal. IMO and from what I gather, the hardest part of all of this is the software component...Yes?

Sigh...this all started as a small idea to get some more redundant storage.

 

[Automata]

It's funny you left a link to that project. Before I read your reply here, I spent the last hour reading about your project. Very insightful... from what I gather from that and your comments above--you're saying that FreeNAS is not in and of itself the best option and may be prone to some difficulties. It may be of equal value to simply set up a server? I've never build a server or dealt with that kind of thing before.

The only problems I haven't been able to resolve are with the jails. As I will say in the review (if I ever get it complete ), when it comes to being a file server, FreeNAS does a very good job, so I would suggest it. However, if you need it to be more than a file server, such as adding virtual machines and other services, then I would suggest going to a custom install.

Correct me if I'm wrong but--Essentially a NAS solution is a file server without the ability to interface using an OS? If this is the case, NAS neems like a bandaid solution to a larger issue, a short-cut? If NAS is nothing more than a redundant array of discs that repair themselves with a web based interface, why should I consider it?

NAS stands for "Network Attached Storage" and your questions here don't really make sense. For example, a shared folder on a Windows system makes it a NAS. The OS, disks, RAID (etc) have no bearing on that definition. I think what you meant to ask was why would you use something like FreeNAS when it is simply a pre-configured operating system with a web interface. The main reason is ease of use. I know a lot of people that panic when they see a Linux command shell, but would be perfectly fine working with the FreeNAS interface. As I've mentioned, it comes down to what you need the server to do.

Where should I begin?

If you want to test out a Linux OS, grab VirtualBox and test out a distro. I exclusively use CentOS on my servers and Arch Linux for my day-to-day systems. The servers don't have any GUI installed and are all managed through a command line. I'd suggest starting with that. If you start getting frustrated and find out it isn't for you, then you just saved yourself a lot of time and frustration.

WRT hardware.. my goal financially by making use of my current system was to free up funds for a new build for a main workstation. I have long wanted to rebuild and get into watercooling. If I can make use of my current components and spend a bit on storage, that is ideal. IMO and from what I gather, the hardest part of all of this is the software component...Yes?

I would say that hardware is easy to pick because it doesn't play a large role in how the server will perform, barring ridiculous decisions. On the other hand, software is your literal interface with the server and what you have to work with on a daily basis, so the decisions are important.

Sigh...this all started as a small idea to get some more redundant storage.

Storage is a complex creature. The rabbit hole goes way deeper than this.

 

[\dev\goat]

If NAS is nothing more than a redundant array of discs that repair themselves with a web based interface, why should I consider it?

Because you download a small image and copy it to a usb stick and poof you have a fully working server with web interface and selectable plugins that do various/awesome things with basically zero work on your part.

On the other hand, you could go with a fully functional build, and turn your hardware into more than just a file server...

You could build your server on an operating system like CentOS which thideras has done many times. Install the base operating system and install/configure only the select packages you desire. You'll learn a lot in the process and the end result will be EXACTLY what you want it to be.

Or you could use a more 'set it and forget it' style server OS like Amahi or Zentyal.

Amahi is supposed to be crazy easy to use and has hundreds if not thousands of plugins, but I haven't tried it yet.

Zentyal is fantastic though.