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NAS Software Reviews - Your input is wanted!
- Thread starter Automata
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2011
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- Cádiz (Spain)
Cool, not as cool as 256GB of RAM, but cool nevertheless.
Thideras,
I've just been reading this project from the beginning. This has turned out to be a project of almost Herculean proportions. Thanks for all the effort. I also can't help but notice that a whole lot of bucks have been spent to create a hardware system to perform this comparison.
I'm looking forward to checking out the results when you've finished.
BachOn
I've just been reading this project from the beginning. This has turned out to be a project of almost Herculean proportions. Thanks for all the effort. I also can't help but notice that a whole lot of bucks have been spent to create a hardware system to perform this comparison.
I'm looking forward to checking out the results when you've finished.
BachOn
OP
- Joined
- May 15, 2006
- Thread Starter
- #126
Thank you for the feedback BackOn. I've certainly put a lot of time into it, but not as much as I feel that I should have. However, I did change the performance section "real test" and wrote two sections on the FreeNAS review today, so I'm making progress.
I suspect the first one might be the hardest since you're establishing your standard and the format for all the others. It also means that if it is working then you've setup the system properly. And that was no easy feat.
I don't understand something. I think you said you were using eight 1.5 Tb drives. How do you get 45 Tb of drive space out of that, or did I misread this from one of your posts in this thread?
Bach On
I don't understand something. I think you said you were using eight 1.5 Tb drives. How do you get 45 Tb of drive space out of that, or did I misread this from one of your posts in this thread?
Bach On
I'm in the process of setting up a network server based on Windows 8. I have three 2 Tb drives setup in a parity arrangement. It gives me just short of 3.75 Tb of network storage. And you don't have to understand Linux to set it up. With an Introductory price of $40 until the end of January, it is a pretty good deal.
The following link will provide some background on the idea.
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/windows/windows_8_home_server_guide?page=0,0
I'd like to suggest you at least touch on this concept in your testing. (As if you don't already have enough to do.)
BachOn
The following link will provide some background on the idea.
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/windows/windows_8_home_server_guide?page=0,0
I'd like to suggest you at least touch on this concept in your testing. (As if you don't already have enough to do.)
BachOn
OP
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- May 15, 2006
- Thread Starter
- #130
You would like to see Storage Spaces added? I thought I had added that one to the list, but I must have forgot about it. I just updated the first post. 
That is actually one that I'm very interested in testing, mainly to see how it performs. I might try that one next, to mix up the testing.
That is actually one that I'm very interested in testing, mainly to see how it performs. I might try that one next, to mix up the testing.
In regards to Windows 8: I've only been using it for about three weeks. So I've only touched on its features. Setting up Storage Spaces was easy once I found out where to start.
I'm certain no software RAID, like Storage Spaces or UnRaid, is going to be as fast as hardware RAID. So speed is likely going to take a big hit. But Storage Spaces is similar in many respects to the capability of UnRaid. The bad news is that you can't add another drive to Windows 8 Storage Spaces and just let it reconfigure itself. UnRaid reconfigures itself as soon as you add a new drive - proportedly without destroying your data. I'd have to call that a very definite plus. But Win 8 can use both internal and external drives. And the Homegroups and Libraries is pretty easy to configure for network use. Those (like me) who don't know Linux and/or other opensource codes will probably find Windows 8 networking easier to configure. One question is whether Win XP or Vista can take advantage of these features across a network? I'm thinking probably not.
I think Microsoft laid Windows Home Server to rest for good because they had added most of its capabilities to Windows 8. After so much sometimes sloppy engineering for so long, it looks to me like they MIGHT have finally done something right here. Though it is still new and unproven in terms of long-term reliability. And it is too bad it is such a non-intuitive and somewhat confusing Operating System. It seems faster than Windows 7 or any of it's predecessors - at least so far. And security seems to be a bit better.
I'd be interested to see how it compares to the other software systems you are evaluating.
BachOn
I'm certain no software RAID, like Storage Spaces or UnRaid, is going to be as fast as hardware RAID. So speed is likely going to take a big hit. But Storage Spaces is similar in many respects to the capability of UnRaid. The bad news is that you can't add another drive to Windows 8 Storage Spaces and just let it reconfigure itself. UnRaid reconfigures itself as soon as you add a new drive - proportedly without destroying your data. I'd have to call that a very definite plus. But Win 8 can use both internal and external drives. And the Homegroups and Libraries is pretty easy to configure for network use. Those (like me) who don't know Linux and/or other opensource codes will probably find Windows 8 networking easier to configure. One question is whether Win XP or Vista can take advantage of these features across a network? I'm thinking probably not.
I think Microsoft laid Windows Home Server to rest for good because they had added most of its capabilities to Windows 8. After so much sometimes sloppy engineering for so long, it looks to me like they MIGHT have finally done something right here. Though it is still new and unproven in terms of long-term reliability. And it is too bad it is such a non-intuitive and somewhat confusing Operating System. It seems faster than Windows 7 or any of it's predecessors - at least so far. And security seems to be a bit better.
I'd be interested to see how it compares to the other software systems you are evaluating.
BachOn
OP
- Joined
- May 15, 2006
- Thread Starter
- #132
I'm working on the FreeNAS review tonight and I wanted to test out the jailed plugins. What a giant mess. I'll freely admit (and do in the article) that I misread one of the instructions and uploaded the wrong PBI file to the server. I ended up deleting the full dataset that I created for this jail and the configuration from the server and starting over. This allowed me to upload the proper PBI file and everything seemed to work until I went to start the service. It helpfully displayed the error message "Unable to start the service". OH MAN TOTALLY GONNA GOOGLE THAT. Thanks FreeNAS, love ya babe. I figured that a process hadn't ended with my previous configuration and since they didn't include the "lsof" program with the distro, I couldn't see what process had my old dataset locked open. So I restarted the server. And it never came back up.
"Refused connection"
I have nothing against FreeNAS and it really is a good product even considering this issue, but this is exactly why I hate pre-built systems. Something goes wrong, it explodes, and oh crap, now I can't access my files! When I'm finished here, I'll need to drag out a keyboard and monitor to see what is wrong. I have a feeling that it failed to start the plugin service, which caused the machine to not fully boot, which as a terrible way to setup the operating system. It should do everything it can to get the web interface running.
"Refused connection"
I have nothing against FreeNAS and it really is a good product even considering this issue, but this is exactly why I hate pre-built systems. Something goes wrong, it explodes, and oh crap, now I can't access my files! When I'm finished here, I'll need to drag out a keyboard and monitor to see what is wrong. I have a feeling that it failed to start the plugin service, which caused the machine to not fully boot, which as a terrible way to setup the operating system. It should do everything it can to get the web interface running.
OP
- Joined
- May 15, 2006
- Thread Starter
- #133
Ok, turns out that it didn't fail to come back up, it failed to shut down. Had to manually power the server off. Nice. System came up normally after the restart. Plugins service did start after that, though. So it wasn't for naught.
OP
- Joined
- May 15, 2006
- Thread Starter
- #134
I got the jail up and running, but it refuses to install any plugins and simply says the files aren't PBI containers. I've verified with the sha checksum they have right next to the download and it matches perfectly. I even went as far as deleting the jail configuration and dataset again. I've put a few hours into getting this feature working, so I'm giving up. What a junk feature.
I know you're probably in no mood for humor. But this is rather ironic. A server can be used for backing up your data has actually destroyed your data. Of course, the problem is that you didn't have a backup plan for the system.
Please know - I'm not laughing at this. I feel your pain. Who would think it would be necessary? This is exactly the kind of confusing thing that scares so many of us away from creating network servers. If you aren't fluent with Linux, this is the kind of thing that makes you throw up your hands and give up. Someone familiar with the language may be able to sort it out and solve it. A Linux "layman" will often just give up. That's what I did with UNRaid and FreeNAS. That's what led me to Storage Spaces in Windows 8.
Are you going to have to do the FreeNAS test over? How many hours of work has this cost you?
The ancient Romans used to have a Regurgitorium for people to visit during their Orgies. I think I'd need one after going through just some of what you've been enduring.
Hang in there. You'll probably get your life back at least by this time next year.
He (or she) who laughs lasts.
Bach On
Please know - I'm not laughing at this. I feel your pain. Who would think it would be necessary? This is exactly the kind of confusing thing that scares so many of us away from creating network servers. If you aren't fluent with Linux, this is the kind of thing that makes you throw up your hands and give up. Someone familiar with the language may be able to sort it out and solve it. A Linux "layman" will often just give up. That's what I did with UNRaid and FreeNAS. That's what led me to Storage Spaces in Windows 8.
Are you going to have to do the FreeNAS test over? How many hours of work has this cost you?
The ancient Romans used to have a Regurgitorium for people to visit during their Orgies. I think I'd need one after going through just some of what you've been enduring.
Hang in there. You'll probably get your life back at least by this time next year.
He (or she) who laughs lasts.
Bach On
OP
- Joined
- May 15, 2006
- Thread Starter
- #136
I have no pain over this other than lost time. This server has never, and will never, store any critical data, so I'm not worried about it. There was no data that was lost, because the jail is on a different dataset.
Having a shiny interface is nice, but when things go wrong, you need to know what is wrong. That is where FreeNAS completely fails. The error messages it gives are absolutely worthless. I could certainly dig into the logs to find out why it is failing (and I still might), but the normal FreeNAS user is either not going to know how to do this or won't want to.
Having a shiny interface is nice, but when things go wrong, you need to know what is wrong. That is where FreeNAS completely fails. The error messages it gives are absolutely worthless. I could certainly dig into the logs to find out why it is failing (and I still might), but the normal FreeNAS user is either not going to know how to do this or won't want to.
This is precisely why we wanted this sticky, to disprove theories like you stated above. For some reason it seems hard-coded in people's brains that software raid is not faster than hardware raid, when that is absolutely not the case. Granted, all software raids are not the same, and configurations and hardware specs definitely make all the difference. But if the choice is hardward raid and ntfs, or software raid and zfs, the latter should be the only choice. Then add in a possible hardware raid card failure, and you have one option to recover your data (another exact raid card), as opposed to most software raid where you can simply reinstall an OS, reimport your config, and done.
Software raid is simply > than hardware raid across many different features.
FreeNAS has its moments, but when I tried it there was the old v7 and the new v8. Half of the best features of v7 weren't usable for v8. samba performance was dreadful, and ZFS versions were way behind solaris based distros like openindiana. Of course, the ability to boot from thumb drive was one major pro when it comes to FreeNAS.
Cw, I'll be thrilled if the theory of software RAID being slower than hardware RAID is proven to be an old wive's tale. There does seem to be some extra behind the scenes "number crunching" required to keep the engine going. Many modern multi-core processors can probably handle this overhead without too much trouble. As you point out, the speed issue for software RAID systems may turn on the efficiency of the programing. And of course the speed of the drives will probably play a part in it too.
I'm glad this is being done. And I commend thideras for his efforts. I'm confident it will provide lots of good information so people can squabble and debate it in this forum for a long time. That's part of the fun of coming here. ;-)
BachOn
I'm glad this is being done. And I commend thideras for his efforts. I'm confident it will provide lots of good information so people can squabble and debate it in this forum for a long time. That's part of the fun of coming here. ;-)
BachOn
Sorry I haven't responded until now, from what I read NAS4Free was a continuation of FreeNAS 7, FreeNAS 8 is a total new system after the FreeNAS name was acquired. So if I have read it right, NAS4Free is the FreeNas 7 project but had to continue under a different name.
The following link has the details:
http://wiki.nas4free.org/doku.php
I actually came across your thread via internet search as I need to create a backup solution to my ReadyNAS NV+ as it's having problems, but later on I want to build a faster home file server.
This is why I'm keen to see someone with a background/experience/expert in home NAS servers to review the different software. And since I came across your thread as you are in the process of doing just that, thought I would throw NAS4Free into the mix, hope you don't mind
OP
- Joined
- May 15, 2006
- Thread Starter
- #140
Ok, that clears up the origins of the OS, thank you for that. I didn't want to be reviewing the same operating system twice.
If you are looking at building your own server, create a thread in the appropriate forum when you are ready, and send me a link through a private message. I'd also suggest checking out my other threads to get an idea of what you can do with these systems.
If you are looking at building your own server, create a thread in the appropriate forum when you are ready, and send me a link through a private message. I'd also suggest checking out my other threads to get an idea of what you can do with these systems.
