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nature of security

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ShadowFolder

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2002
i think network/computer security concept is completely impossible...

origin of all security problems are nature of "internet" and "network os"

you know,
"internet" was designed 4 cold war military communication network...
it was designed 4 hq2hq communucation,
and not contain any security feature in nature...

and all of os'es & apps contains tons of bugs, posibilities, exploits...
(some more, some less)

and i wanna know:
what is your opinion about "nature of security"? :)
 

sm0x

Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2002
Yes, the internet probably wasn't designed to be secure. However, not all security problems arise from the internet and network OS's. There are those who just don't take the time to make a long alphanumerical password and get owned by some script kidde. Further more, some just don't take the time to read whats up with their OS and software packages and neglect to apply the latest patches. But even still, I agree with you. Nothing is completely secure (unless you disconnect yourself from the network). Oh yeah, but there are also local exploits. So the solution is to turn it off and lock it up somewhere.
 

su root

Senior Member, --, I teach people how to read your
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Location
Ontario, Canada
The internet was initially made to get a packet from one place to another, allowing for a mesh topology, without a matrix topology. Before the creation of the internet, all communication was via modem, so one site would be connected to other sites via phone lines. If the phone line was interrupted in any way, the connection was lost. The Internet introduces redundancy, so that if any connection breaks, packets will still find a way to get there. It was not made for public use, it was made so that if 90% of the internet was blown away, the other 10% is still usable. "The spice must flow" (sorry, bad movie quote)

There is no perfect code. Applications and OS's are always going to have bugs. As hard as we try to perfect code, there will always be someone out there who will find a flaw in it, and exploit it. Always.

As for network security, right now it seems to be working.. you keep the right traffic in the right places, and all is well. Firewalls help, but aren't 100%. For now, it keeps the bad people away from your network, but there will always be someone with a way in.

I'd have to say that one of the biggest problems with security is the "idiot network administrators".. the people who think they know what they're doing, and set up a server that's insecure, or modify a firewall rule. All you need is one network admin to do something dumb, and your entire security is blown.. leave the administrator account logged onto an insecure workstation and walk away... install an insecure WAP... ugh. Depending on how secure your network is, it could add up to lazyness... not disablign the switch ports for ethernet drops in public areas.. etc.

I think one of the things that is going on that we just aren't seeing is that privacy is going down the crapper. You are no longer anonymous while surfing around. Various advertisers know who you are.. you are a number.. a number stored secretly somewhere on your computer that allows them to track what you do on the internet and advertise to you. That's not a big deal, though. In the scheme of things, advertisements are just an annoyance. (note the new console message spam)

For Privacy, I'm tired of people who know nothing about the workings of the internet (you know the type, they use AOL, check their email once a month, and check one webpage every few years), who make big decisions about what the internet should be like. Most of them are simply either being pressured by big companies, or in the pockets of them. (Notibly the RIAA and MPAA). If you don't believe me, check out http://slashdot.org and watch the headlines over a few days... every few days some US senator gets a brilliant idea, and forwards legislation to have everyone on the internet wearing a nametag.

Also, there's the issue of 'empowering' copyright holders. Fancy title, but if you've been following it, you'll know that it basically means that if the RIAA sees you sharing a copyrited MP3, they can do anything illegal to you they want "to protect their copyrights". [sarcasm]So, that means that if I legally buy a CD, then rip it to MP3 and keep that legal copy on my hard drive, then search for some legal MP3s on Kazaa, Kazaa might scan my hard drive and automatically share my legal MP3s. If I was a "regular user," and didn't know it did that, which would mean I wouldn't know to stop it from sharing my MP3s, then the RIAA can do anything that is deemed illegal on the internet, including hacking/cracking my computer or DDOSing me, and possibly ****up my computer. Yay! :D[/sarcasm] -- reminds me of the "copy-protected" CDs that, if you put them in your CDrom drive, it'll actually DAMAGE your computer
 
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ShadowFolder

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2002
where's the beginning of control...
where's the limit of freedom...

yea,
probably riaa and other radical copyright organisation'll play the game with dirty rules...

maybe internet, world's one of the most important invention...
(all of significant invention's origin is military projects)
it's free,
it's working without any serious problem, and it has no macro order or authority,
it's a alternate place 4 everything,
nobody control it, nobody sell it,

and it's not secure... (probably it must continue unsecure ;))
 

rogerdugans

Linux challenged Senior, not that it stops me...
Joined
Dec 28, 2001
Location
Corner of No and Where
The nature of the beast.

The internet's original design has already been brought up.
Network admin has been brought up.

My point to add is that with all the functionality that has been/ and will continue to be added it is impossible to make things completely secure.

For the Internet to be completely secure data packets would have to be very limited in nature and the scope of what could be carried also limited to a very small number; TCP/IP is just not designed that way.

Two choices exist: ignore security or do your best to be secure while maintaining the functionality YOU want.
 

su root

Senior Member, --, I teach people how to read your
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Location
Ontario, Canada
The only secure computer in the world is turned off, unplugged, put in a heavy vault, and buried a few hundred meters below the earth's crust. Even then, it's not completely secure.
 

Mull

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Location
northeast ohio
The net will never be 100% secure. There is still lots of people I take to every day that still don't have a anti-virus of fire wall. Every body has to do there share. If you want to drive a car you have to pay for your own insurance, gas,oil. tires. The things that make your traveling a little safer. People pay $$$$ for a vidio card and won't pay $30.00 for a fire wall. WHY?
Mull
 

su root

Senior Member, --, I teach people how to read your
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Location
Ontario, Canada
Mull said:
The net will never be 100% secure. There is still lots of people I take to every day that still don't have a anti-virus of fire wall. Every body has to do there share. If you want to drive a car you have to pay for your own insurance, gas,oil. tires. The things that make your traveling a little safer. People pay $$$$ for a vidio card and won't pay $30.00 for a fire wall. WHY?
Mull
You don't even have to pay $30 for a firewall, a free one like ZoneAlarm will protect even the newest newbies sufficiently. XP comes with a firewall now, so that helps protect lots of people out there.

I see it like this: if you live in downtown LA, and you leave your new porche unlocked, with the keys in the engine, with the alarm off, then your car is going to be stolen. This is like an IIS server with no patches. However, if you live in the middle of nowhere, with a beatup chevy, and you leave it in the same condition, nobody will touch it. Like a 14.4 modem user with a 486 laptop.