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Need advice for first overcloking preparation

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Umerus

Registered
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Hello, :)

I've just installed a XP2000+ on my K7T266 Pro 1 (coming from a Thunderbird 1.333) but my computer is still a little slow for video acquisition. So, I want to make a bit of overclocking. I already decided some actions after threads reading but I did not find all the answers I was looking for.

Actual preparation: :drool:
- my memory is 512 Mo DDR PC3200 (400 Mhz) for a Mobo 266 standard FSB.
- my 2 HDD are ATA 133 for a mobo ATA 100 IDE primary chanel.
- I'm waiting a "Seasonic Super Tornado 400 watts SS400-FB" power supply for voltage stability and 120 mm bottom fan which will help CPU cooling.
- I'll buy Artic Silver 5 to replace Artic Silver 2
- I'll buy 4 PAPST 8412 NGML fans (2 IN and 2 OUT) to cool the case.
- Finally I'll buy a Thermalright SP-97 to cool the processor.
(2 last actions are also for noise reduction)


A few questions (out of thousands):
- which component has the more chance to limit the FSB overclocking:
- southbridge chipset: do I need to use a passive / active HS ?
- I'm using a video acquisition card (PCTV vivion Pro), an Ethernet card, a 5.1 Soundblaster sound card, a Geforce2 MX 400 video card and USB 1 ports.
- can anybody explain me when HDD have to be cooled (FSB increase ?) :mad:
- is there any primary actions to significantly increase my chances to succed in FSB overclocking ? :santa:
- is there any actions to be done on my CPU to allow its overclocking through the bios multiplier setting (I read some L1 bridge shunt modification but I do not remerber if it has to be apply in my situation). :confused:


Thanks for your help. :clap:

Umerus
 

sramjones

Disabled
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Location
Bronx New York
- southbridge chipset: do I need to use a passive / active HS ?
Doesent matter, dont even think you will need one, your FSB wont go that high


- can anybody explain me when HDD have to be cooled (FSB increase ?)
It doesnt have to be cooled at all, Maybe if you are running a irc file server node them maybe yes

- is there any primary actions to significantly increase my chances to succed in FSB overclocking ?
you will change the FSB frequency and the miltiplyer
Miltiplyer x FSB= Core clock

Me on intel system Multiplyer of 12 and a fsb of 301 =3612
 

ggo

Disabled
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
i think what your system needs more than a new heatsink and fans is a better motherboard. the one you have is utter garbage. especially if you are using pc3200 and you have ata133 drives. you cant push the ata controllers out of spec like everything else in your machine. it will cause massive data corruption. maybe an NF7-s, or and A7N8X?
 
OP
U

Umerus

Registered
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Hi,

You mean that the Mobo controler will not accept FSB increase and that this will block the overclocking ? :cry:

So that it will be cheaper to keep processor, HS, memory, HDD and all card but just change the Mobo ? It seems 100% logical ! :clap:

What are the best mobo for Bios parameters management (AMI seems poor but perhaps newer mobo are different) ? I'll have a look on motherboards forum but any advice is wellcome.

It will also finish to consume my initial budget! So that I'll still work with my XP2000+, but can't change it's multiplier:curiously it even does not accept to be under clocked. Probably I'll find a guide on the CPU forum.

I'm learning that experience on overclocking requires a lot of time to learm only the base line!

Thanks for advices.
 

ggo

Disabled
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
no, the mobo controller wont block the increase, but you cant hope to increase the speed of the hard drive controllers (i was thinking that you intended to try to overclock your hard drives). you can still overclock, but with this board you wont get very far. it seems that all your components are very nice, except your motherboard. with a new motherboard you will start at stock higher than the maximum you could reach with the one you have.

and it seems that the abit NF7-S and asus A7N8X are the best socket A motherboards for overclocking. they are both based on the nforce 2 chipset, and are of the highest quality.
 

mtb856

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2004
Location
Helping young Meatballs grow...
There is no perfect mobo, best way to learn about them is to find one that you like and then look up some reviews on internet... there's a review for almost all of the major boards out there. Find two or three that do what you want and have good reviews and then post a thread in the AMD mobos sections so they can recommend the best one out of your choices. Do some research of your own, most of the guys on here won't answer a question like "What's the best AMD mobo?" it's just too broad of a question.


For your cpu, I'd go to the cpu database at www.overclockers.com and look up what other guys are getting w/ your cpu. Take their oc's with a grain of salt... some of the guys will post a huge oc w/ a very small increase in vcore... an oc that probably won't work for you.

Look at the Overclocking sticky in the CPU section... any of these should give you an idea of what oc'ing is and what you need to do it. Good Luck and Welcome to the Forums :)
 

SF101

The Printer Guru
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
for him though i would sugest a abit mobo maybe a NF7-s just because there is alot finer tuneing from what ive heard ..

also Umerus what they mean is that with your curent mobo it can throw everything out of place when you over clock .. thats prettymuch what they are saying in laymans terms..

on other mobos however like a mobo with a Nforce2 chipset that does not happen.. on yours your HD can get screwed up from a overclock aswell as other things.. thats what they meant..

also what ggo said is absolutely true because the mobo is the starting point to overclocking. a good mobo will give you alot easyer and more flexible overclocking with more options.. such as vcore altering and smaller FSB incriments ect..

now you will probly need more than stock cooling but for what you need, you do have alot of choice .. take a look for instance at the air cooling reviews on the main page and just check out price per performance options and take your pick..

the 3200 ram is a good start.
the HD doesnt need cooling unless it is used as a file server like stated before.
that also comes down to case temps and you need to keep them down to actually keep anything down. there is alot of poasts on how to mod a case to lower the temps on these forums .. do some research geta diferent motherboard, get your case as cool as you posibly can ..

then start trying to overclock that chip.. my recomendation is try to keep the CPU temps under 50*C as a standard..

and when you overclock you need to work out your multiplyer X FSB ratio to = your MHZ speed..

i say increase your FSB gradualy untill it doesnt boot into windows . then drop it back then increase your vcore by small incriments untill it becomes stable .. that is if it wasnt stable for you to begin with.. always watch your temps or you can easily fry a cpu.. Vcore increase also = heat along with clock increase so watch carefully..

and like i stated above READ a lot of info on the forum untill you are ready and then it will not be such a big deal..

also dont try and go Rambo right off the start be realistic with your overclock and tweek from there..

guys that go ok go for the gold and put a rediculouse FSB up usually get screwed with a broken chip. so just take it easy go nice and carefull watch your temps and you should be fine..

look up some other xp2000 overclocks and what not to find really what the average ppl are getting there FSB ect to .. then shoot somewhat under it and increase as you go untill you get to a good stable overclock you are happy with :) ..
 
OP
U

Umerus

Registered
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Thanks for all those replies.

I think I've find a nice occupation for a few nights and week ends ! lol

I'll post my results when i'll reach my oc max.
 

sramjones

Disabled
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Location
Bronx New York
mtb856 said:
There is no perfect mobo, best way to learn about them is to find one that you like and then look up some reviews on internet... there's a review for almost all of the major boards out there. Find two or three that do what you want and have good reviews and then post a thread in the AMD mobos sections so they can recommend the best one out of your choices. Do some research of your own, most of the guys on here won't answer a question like "What's the best AMD mobo?" it's just too broad of a question.


For your cpu, I'd go to the cpu database at www.overclockers.com and look up what other guys are getting w/ your cpu. Take their oc's with a grain of salt... some of the guys will post a huge oc w/ a very small increase in vcore... an oc that probably won't work for you.

Look at the Overclocking sticky in the CPU section... any of these should give you an idea of what oc'ing is and what you need to do it. Good Luck and Welcome to the Forums :)


Yes there are perfect mobos and they are called asus, everything else is crap
 

Shaka

New Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2004
Location
Dijon, France
Hi,

first of all, if I were you I would check that your CPU is a 0.13µ.
If not, give up the idea of OCing, even with NF7-S/SP-97.
But if this is a 0.13µ (check it with CPU-Z), you really should consider buying a new mobo (NF7-S, DFI Infinity...) to push your CPU to the limits (probably around 2500mhz or more).
Last thing : buy Arctic Silver Ceramique instead of AS5 : cheaper and better (a good 2°).
 
OP
U

Umerus

Registered
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Bad new. My processor is a Palomino 18 µ (purchased on E-Bay, the 18µ core was mandatory for my mobo).

All I need is to get my video acquisition card capable to catch movies in DVD format. Since I switched from a ThunderBird 1.333 to an XP2000+, thing goes much more better (OK for image but still some delay in sound).

I already pushed my memory setting in the bios to the maximum (2,2,2,6) which is a minimum with a PC3200 on a 266 FSB. I also modified my Bank interleave from disable to 4-Way (thanks to the overclockers.com linked I found this setting reason). I also pushed my FSB from 133 to 136 (cold start lol) step by step testing each time with a 2 pass of Memtest86 and Sandra 8 pass to get average result. The performance improvements are now:

Mémoire CPU
ALU FPU ALU FPU
17,0% 18,2% 2,2% 2,2%
 
OP
U

Umerus

Registered
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Bad new. My processor is a Palomino 18 µ (purchased on E-Bay, the 18µ core was mandatory for my mobo).

All I need is to get my video acquisition card capable to catch movies in DVD format. Since I switched from a ThunderBird 1.333 to an XP2000+, thing goes much more better (OK for image but still some delay in sound).

I already pushed my memory setting in the bios to the maximum (2,2,2,6) which is a minimum with a PC3200 on a 266 FSB. I also modified my Bank interleave from disable to 4-Way (thanks to the overclockers.com linked I found this setting reason). I also pushed my FSB from 133 to 136 (cold start lol) step by step testing each time with a 2 pass of Memtest86 and Sandra 8 pass to get average result. The performance improvements are now:

Mémory CPU
ALU FPU ALU FPU
17,0% 18,2% 2,2% 2,2%

It's difficult to say if this had any influence on the XP temp as there's a lot of environement fluctuation between day / nights / weather. It seems that I've got an average 1°C increase. Temp is going to be my master issue. I'm working with an open case and PCAlert III indicates 50°C for the case temp and 55 for the CPU. Before to switch to my XP2000+, closing the case was increasing the CPU temp by 9 °C (63°C) and the case temp by 4 °C).

I realy need to improve my air flows:
- first I reversed my HS fan to flow air from the CPU instead of to the CPU. This did not change any thing to my CPU temp but clearly decreased my case temp by 4°C (initially, my DDR was very hot !).
- then I bought Artic Silver 2 (ceramic). But it seems that there's different opinion on which Silver Artic best performs (2 or 5).

Now, I'll changed my power supply (SEASONIC 400w SS400FB-APFC F3 ATX 12V 4P6P NEW 120mm) expected soon to exhaust the Air on the CPU top.
I'll put 3 fans on the case to bring air flows around the components.
Finally, I'll change my HS (actually small and 60mm fan) by a Volcano 9 (except that the fan will be replaced by a PAPST 19db 26.5 CFM).

Can any body tell me if the best for CPU cooling is to flow from the CPU or to the CPU (all HS originaly seems to flow to the CPU which gived bad result in my tests).


Umerus

Thanks for all your contributions
 

mtb856

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2004
Location
Helping young Meatballs grow...
Instead of buying a Thermaltake HSF, have you considered a Thermalright? I'm guessing that you're living in France or Canada due to several things that you have said, and I'm not sure if Thermalright is available there. If you have a 60mm fan on there, even a TT Volcano would make a difference... so if it's cheap and available, go for it. You might consider ducting a larger Papst to the Volcano though, because 26 cfms isn't much. You can go to 35-40dB and the noise isn't that bad... if you can duct a high power 92mm fan to it that would be great.

You'll get the biggest drop if you can lower your case temp though, although 50°C is a highly unlikely case temp (that's 120°F, so if your case isn't sitting out in the desert or on fire, I'm fairly sure the temp is off. You might try Motherboard Monitor 5 (MBM5) and see if your mobo is on the list. Still, having more airflow and tidying your cables will lower your temps quite a bit... and so will removing the alum. case fan grills if you have them and have the tools to cut them off.
 
OP
U

Umerus

Registered
Joined
Jun 9, 2004
Hi,

I've a volcano 9 available with dead fan. That's why I'll try to install a PAPST 92mm fan on it (unfortunately, I'm effectively living in france and the delivery delay here is about 2 weeks for majority of good cooling equipments (no I won't cry) :bang head

I've get a look on CPU overcloking results and it seems that I can think to reach (with air cooling) a 2000 Mhz processor frequency. Seems that with the same mobo, this was done with SwiftTech MCX462-V or ThermalRight SP-97 (I personnaly prefer the 1st one according to what I've read on the Web).

There's also a duct material which seems very interesting (see following adress: http://www.hersys.com/cat/produit_idprod_2030.html).

But I still think that bringing air to the CPU is more efficient for the CPU OC but that exhausting air is a better idea for case temp (which I think is one of my major issue). When I'll have received all the material (whithin 2 - 3 weeks :temper: ) I'll make comparison tests and will post the results.

For any body who's looking for receip to unlock XP processors or install a watercooling, I found on this forum (don't remerber which head thread) a link to Tom's harware guide THC video's:

http://www.tomshardware.com/site/videos/thg_videos-01.html

This is the top of the top !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(how mad can be the overclocking word with 5 GHz project is also a good video !)

Umerus
 

mtb856

Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2004
Location
Helping young Meatballs grow...
If you can find a hardware store, you can make that duct yourself and save some money. My brother used the alum. duct and just wrapped it in duct tape were it might touch any electronic circuits. Here's a pic of what he did LINK

If you have good airflow in your case, you can have the HSF blowing in on the cpu and still maintain good case temps. Modding your own holes into your case and organizing your cables are the easiest ways to drop your case temps.