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Need an education on radiator, fan, pump pairing

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JustJeff

Registered
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
I'm getting back into watercooling after 10+yrs away. Provided my pump is still good I can be up and running with a new radiator and waterblocks.

Here is what I have:

D4 pump and Swiftech Microres, which will eventually be replaced.
Full Tower (old RocketFish/Lian Li) modified with top 360 radiator cutout
i5 3570k
EVGA 1060 FTW (with failed fan software. Fans stopped working and I'm using MSI Afterburner to keep them running)
Corsair CM550M psu

For now I just want to get up and running on my old CPU and GPU and get my feet wet (pardon the pun) and relearn w/c and what has changed since I last was doing it. Eventually I'll be upgrading entire computer. GPU prices is what has been holding me back. I'm doing watercooling to preserve my failing GPU until prices on GPUs return to normalcy. I'm holding off on new computer cause there isn't much since in putting a failing card with brand new hardware...that's just tempting fate for my GPU to take that final leap off a cliff.

Here is what I need to know:
Do I need to worry about buying a 360 radiator and a 120 radiator for right now that won't be compatible or ideal for once I buy a 3060 or 3070 later and pair it with an i5 or i7 9th, 10th or 11th gen Intel? I know D5 pumps are high volume/low pressure and DDC pumps are low volume/high pressure. Does my radiator need to paired with pump and blocks designed for one of the two pump styles...or am I over thinking it and I simply need to get some radiators and some blocks and get started?

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

Oh...forgot about fans. All my fans are 10 yrs old, not PWM. I'll be replacing those also once the time comes
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Why won't that setup be ideal for newer hardware? It's plenty of rad for 3060/70 and flagship 10th/11th gen.

I think you're overcomplicating it, yep. :)

What makes you think the fan software failed? You can try reflashing the bios on your card and see if the default profiles return.
 

maxfly

Member
Joined
May 7, 2005
Cpu block is an easy one. Just figure out which brand you prefer for your new cpu. It will more than likely come with mounting hardware that will work with your current socket. This is really the only real research youll have to do. Make sure it will work with both your current and the new socket. If it doesnt then be sure to get a kit from the manufacturer that will allow it to.
Your gpu block is something youll want to hold off on until you know which card youll be going with. Full coverage blocks are single model only and very expensive. You wont be able to cool a new gen card with a universal block being that they only cover the core. Your better off doing what your doing until you upgrade.
For a cpu/gpu loop a 360 rad is a good starting point until youve decided on your upgrades. If you plan on say a 3080/6800 10900k/5800x ocing type rig youll likely need more but you can cross that bridge when you finalize your new build.
As for manufacturers i prefer hardwarelabs (they are just that good) almost exclusively these days with a few other manufacturers and specific models as well.
Pumps only really matter as far as noise tolerance, space constraints and manufacturer go. In a nutshell D5s generally make less noise and take up a little more room.
Ddcs are slightly better for tighter spaces and where head pressure is needed for top mounted rads or with multiple big rads.
Manufacturer is a big one today with all of the cheap knock offs being sold. Look for Laing, Lowara or Xylem built pumps of either kind. Look for ek, heatkiller, xspc, or swiftech to name a few of the known good brands. Avoid ddc 310s and anything corsair pump or rad.
 
OP
J

JustJeff

Registered
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Why won't that setup be ideal for newer hardware? It's plenty of rad for 3060/70 and flagship 10th/11th gen.

I think you're overcomplicating it, yep. :)

What makes you think the fan software failed? You can try reflashing the bios on your card and see if the default profiles return.

I think fan software failed because my fans stopped working. It's been since last year around this time that I researched to find a work around, which was MSI Afterburner. What I remember from that time was that EVGA 1060,70,80 cards had problems with both VRM getting too hot and separating from the boards and also having issues with the fans stopping operating. Some stopped all together, others were locked in at 20%. I don't remember all of it, but suffice to say I'm able to get my fans running, BUT MSI Afterburner has to be restarted everytime my pc shuts down. This is particularly problematic when Windows does an automatic update in the middle of the night.

I waited for the new 300 series cards, then waited again cause I had read by 1st quarter '21 stocks would be replenished. Now I'm reading that it will be next year until pricing returns to sanity.

My reasoning for wanting to be future proof on watercooling is that I plan on building a wall mounted open case. I'm starting a new woodworking hobby and I have a spot on my study wall over my desk perfect for a wall hung pc art-piece. I'm not in a rush to do this project, but would like to know parts I buy now will be worthwhile later.

But it sounds like I am overthinking it and can simply buy a radiator and get going with this?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I think fan software failed because my fans stopped working.
Gotcha. But they work. Just not automatically....which is why I wonder if it's a bios issue that the fans don't ramp up. ;)

BUT MSI Afterburner has to be restarted everytime my pc shuts down. This is particularly problematic when Windows does an automatic update in the middle of the night
have msi ab start with windows (minimized)...pretty sure there is a setting for that somewhere. :)
 
OP
J

JustJeff

Registered
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Cpu block is an easy one. Just figure out which brand you prefer for your new cpu. It will more than likely come with mounting hardware that will work with your current socket. This is really the only real research youll have to do. Make sure it will work with both your current and the new socket. If it doesnt then be sure to get a kit from the manufacturer that will allow it to.
Your gpu block is something youll want to hold off on until you know which card youll be going with. Full coverage blocks are single model only and very expensive. You wont be able to cool a new gen card with a universal block being that they only cover the core. Your better off doing what your doing until you upgrade.
For a cpu/gpu loop a 360 rad is a good starting point until youve decided on your upgrades. If you plan on say a 3080/6800 10900k/5800x ocing type rig youll likely need more but you can cross that bridge when you finalize your new build.
As for manufacturers i prefer hardwarelabs (they are just that good) almost exclusively these days with a few other manufacturers and specific models as well.
Pumps only really matter as far as noise tolerance, space constraints and manufacturer go. In a nutshell D5s generally make less noise and take up a little more room.
Ddcs are slightly better for tighter spaces and where head pressure is needed for top mounted rads or with multiple big rads.
Manufacturer is a big one today with all of the cheap knock offs being sold. Look for Laing, Lowara or Xylem built pumps of either kind. Look for ek, heatkiller, xspc, or swiftech to name a few of the known good brands. Avoid ddc 310s and anything corsair pump or rad.

Yes, I would have to get a GPU block specific for my 1060 card. I've verified with EK that their block would work with my card and Newegg has them in stock, though not cheap, $130 or so. My concern with keep going with the Afterburner software is concern that my GPU temps get too high. I forget what safe temps are, but if I play any game other than Star Wars The Old Republic (which is more CPU dependent) that my monitor starts blinking out...or it did last time I was messing with it. It would be nice to have a functional card and not risk this thing crapping out and leaving me with no GPU at all and having to pay horrible prices.

As far as my loop and future needs, I don't see myself getting anything more than an i5 or i7 unlocked probably a 10th gen, but whatever is the best option for the money at the time. GPU I'll probably do a 3060ti or 3070. My radiator is top mounted, but it always has been and the D4 pump handled a single CPU loop just fine.
 

maxfly

Member
Joined
May 7, 2005
Check out techpowerup.com for a bios update like ED suggested that may be all you need to get your fans to start working again. If going with a new block for it is what your plan is check out performance-pcs.com they may have a better price and possibly a larger selection. Thats the best place to look around for the rest of your gear as well.
Thats a definite bonus not having to buy another pump. For rads i would check out the hwl gts,gtx lines. Eks xe and ce if you go 140 and alphacools xt45s or ut60s are solid but need to be flushed really well before you use them. Primochill lrt soft tubing is top notch stuff and barrow and bitspower are both solid for fittings.
I think thats everything...haha.
 
OP
J

JustJeff

Registered
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Check out techpowerup.com for a bios update like ED suggested that may be all you need to get your fans to start working again. If going with a new block for it is what your plan is check out performance-pcs.com they may have a better price and possibly a larger selection. Thats the best place to look around for the rest of your gear as well.
Thats a definite bonus not having to buy another pump. For rads i would check out the hwl gts,gtx lines. Eks xe and ce if you go 140 and alphacools xt45s or ut60s are solid but need to be flushed really well before you use them. Primochill lrt soft tubing is top notch stuff and barrow and bitspower are both solid for fittings.
I think thats everything...haha.

Ah, yes performance-pcs.com, I remember them...now that you mention them. I think I've bought from them before.

If I go something thick like an EK XE do I need to worry about pressure drop when using my D4 or later a D5 PWM? Also would a think radiator like XE be enough cooling for both CPU and GPU? EK is giving some EK online credit for buying the Z590 MSI EK Carbon https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-quantum-msi-mpg-z590-carbon-ek-x-d-rgb?___SID=U. If the cost of their promo comes out to about as much as I'd spend on a board, cpu block and radiator then I may go with the monoblock motherboard....though I know nothing about monoblock pros and cons. I'd like to put off buying computer hardware, BUT who knows, the bug might hit me and I just dive in with new rig.
 
OP
J

JustJeff

Registered
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Gotcha. But they work. Just not automatically....which is why I wonder if it's a bios issue that the fans don't ramp up. ;)

have msi ab start with windows (minimized)...pretty sure there is a setting for that somewhere. :)

I was on a site that had updates, my card is listed as one which needs the update..>BUT the update for my card is not there :p

I do have Afterburner setup to start with Windows, but it doesn't.
 

maxfly

Member
Joined
May 7, 2005
You wont have to worry about restriction issues with the 360 xe(solid choice) or any rad tbh with your d4. They are still the least restrictive components in loops so youll be gtg with pretty much any rad. Your blocks and fittings are going to impact pressure far more but even those are minimal for the most part. As long as you arent running your pump in the basement and plumbing it to your rig on the main floor, restrictions are essentially a thing of the past once your loop is filled.
Monoblocks are kind of a double edged sword. They look badass and they keep your mb vrms nice and chilly but they rarely live up to their cpu only brethren due to the way they mount. The way cpu block mounting systems are engineered now your almost guaranteed sweet temps as long as you follow the directions (2 or 3 mounts and youll be a pro) and have enough cooling capacity. Where as with monoblocks they can be alot harder to get a good mount and of course your also contending with the hot as hell vrms at the same time. With modern cpus being hotter (especially if your going to shoot for a 5+ oc) and far more concentrated it can result in much higher cpu temps. Due to how much harder it is to remove the heat fast enough. Generally monoblocks will run 10c+ hotter. Mb manufacturers have actually done a really good job of designing heatsinks to keep the vrms within specs on most high end boards with minimal airflow(research first and foremost).Then theres the massive cost of monoblocks right up front. Their usually 2 to 3 times as much as a top notch cpu block.
Personally i wont go the monoblock route again. It looks amazing but the cost...ugh. One and done sucks. Where as most quality cpu blocks you can simply buy an updated mounting kit and reuse it.
As far as a 360 xe being enough for a cpu/gpu loop, its going to depend on the specific parts you go with and if your going to oc. I always try to leave myself room for more surface area unless im completely overkilled as is hehe.
 
OP
J

JustJeff

Registered
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
You wont have to worry about restriction issues with the 360 xe(solid choice) or any rad tbh with your d4. They are still the least restrictive components in loops so youll be gtg with pretty much any rad. Your blocks and fittings are going to impact pressure far more but even those are minimal for the most part. As long as you arent running your pump in the basement and plumbing it to your rig on the main floor, restrictions are essentially a thing of the past once your loop is filled.
Monoblocks are kind of a double edged sword. They look badass and they keep your mb vrms nice and chilly but they rarely live up to their cpu only brethren due to the way they mount. The way cpu block mounting systems are engineered now your almost guaranteed sweet temps as long as you follow the directions (2 or 3 mounts and youll be a pro) and have enough cooling capacity. Where as with monoblocks they can be alot harder to get a good mount and of course your also contending with the hot as hell vrms at the same time. With modern cpus being hotter (especially if your going to shoot for a 5+ oc) and far more concentrated it can result in much higher cpu temps. Due to how much harder it is to remove the heat fast enough. Generally monoblocks will run 10c+ hotter. Mb manufacturers have actually done a really good job of designing heatsinks to keep the vrms within specs on most high end boards with minimal airflow(research first and foremost).Then theres the massive cost of monoblocks right up front. Their usually 2 to 3 times as much as a top notch cpu block.
Personally i wont go the monoblock route again. It looks amazing but the cost...ugh. One and done sucks. Where as most quality cpu blocks you can simply buy an updated mounting kit and reuse it.
As far as a 360 xe being enough for a cpu/gpu loop, its going to depend on the specific parts you go with and if your going to oc. I always try to leave myself room for more surface area unless im completely overkilled as is hehe.

Monoblock and VRM heat affecting temps makes sense. I'll avoid monoblocks.

It's been a very long time since I read about radiators and pressure drops, but I do know about how the piping can effect flow. In my profession I have to account for bends in ventilation pipes and such.

Thank you for your input