Need build oc help (5900x, 3600 b-die, 3090ti)

[funsoul]

Hi everyone!!!!

Been aeons since I logged in....downsize/move to smaller place, life crazy busy, ln2 pricing went from $1/L to $5/L, blah blah blah

Before getting to my questions/issues...want to send out a huge shout to all the admins and regulars! I've missed the tremendously friendly, open site we've got here...if you look around, you'll quickly see why this is why I call ocf my oc and pc home. Thanks to all for keeping this place awesome!!

OK...put together a new build. This one's AMD Ryzen based so a completely new world to me (I've always been an intel fanboy) and I've bene struggling for a couple months so figured it was time to ask for some help.

Build:
cpu: AMD 5900x
mobo: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) (bios 4403, the most recent available)
ram: Team T-CREATE EXPERT 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3600 TTCED432G3600HC14CDC01 (B-die)
vga: EVGA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti FTW3 ULTRA GAMING, 24G-P5-4985-KR
drive: Seagate FireCuda 530 M.2 2280 1TB PCIe Gen4 x4 NVMe 1.4 ZP1000GM3A013
AIO: NZXT Kraken X73 360mm
psu: EVGA SuperNOVA P3 220-P3-1200-X1 1200W PLATINUM
case: Fractal Design Define 7 Gray Brushed Aluminum / Steel Mid Tower
fans: be quiet! SILENTWINGS 3 120mm
ram cooling: clip-on fan bracket from an old corsair kit
monitor: Samsung CRG9

Goal:
OVERCLOCK this thing!!!!! MORE COWBELL!!!! ;P
- obtain max overclocks on cpu, ram and vga while keeping max temps on all components below thresholds which negatively impact overall performance.

Some of the links I found most useful for setup and testing:

- https://www.overclock.net/threads/m...guide-for-amd-5000-series-processors.1777081/
-

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/fdl7cf

-

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/lmtpk5

- https://skatterbencher.com/2021/08/18/skatterbencher-26-amd-ryzen-9-5900x-overclocked-to-5223-mhz/
-

- https://intensewebs.com/index.php/amd/amd-cpu/key-points-ryzen-oc
-

- https://www.overclock.net/threads/a-guide-to-ram-overclocking-on-zen-3.1798093/
- https://www.corsair.com/corsairmedia/sys_master/productcontent/Ryzen3000_MemoryOverclockingGuide.pdf
- https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/oc-guide/DDR4 OC Guide.md
- https://github.com/LunarPSD/NvidiaOverclocking/blob/main/Nvidia Overclocking.md
- https://www.igorslab.de/en/geforce-...ps-and-tips-for-the-electric-grill-in-winter/
(still searching for a solid 3090ti oc guide. Most tell me heat is the primary limiter but my card never gets higher than ~75C.)

Tools used to date:
- Clock Tuner (CTR) / Project Hydra
- Core Cycler
- AMD Ryzen Master
- MSI Afterburner
- HWINFO

Testing apps:
- r20, r23, x265, geekbench3, spi32, 3dMark (cpu, timespy, fse), OCCT, prime95, superpimod 32M-

What's gone on and where am I atm:
- spent a couple weeks running CTR (and Project Hydra). OC was decent enough but results were sub-optimal (r20's in the 8300-8500 range). Heat was a real issue as it applied pretty hefty positive offsets everywhere and deltas between clocks and effective clocks was dramatic (so likely clock stretching).
- spent the next few weeks playing with Core Cycler and found my offset curves for both AVX and non-AVX loads. They work nicely for sure (r23 scores 23,000 - 23,150, r20 8850 ish, average effective core speed just over 4.5GHz).
- Saw an article where the user set 2 profiles (avx/non-avx) in a different tool (another brand's version of ryzen master) and the applied profile is auto-applied when loads are avx or non-avx. Any tips or links for how to make this work would be appreciated, ofc! I still have to google around for this).
- Found most efficient PPT, EDC, TDC values for max boost clocks, lowest deltas between clocks and effective clocks deltas, keeping max temp to 90C or less) for AVX/non-AVX loads.

PPT 178
EDC 132
TDC 117

Curve values (all offsets negative):
Core non-AVX AVX
0 15 25
1 15 25
2 5 7
3 16 25
4 23 30
5 5 15
6 25 30
7 20 30
8 25 30
9 30 30
10 30 30
11 27 30

Max boost override doesn't work at all for me...not even 25MHz. Felt only ok with the cpu overclocks (only fair to poor compared to h20/aio hwbot results), there's got to be more to give, but I was tired of a month of figuring out the platform a bit and doing lots core and power testing (lol) so decided to start tooling around with the ram. Would definitely appreciate guidance to improve cpu performance!

Here's where I thought things might get more interesting as the sticks are b-die but, ruh roh, issues :/
- Using the voltages, etc settings as described in the above Key Points article plus my AVX curve values and went straight for 3600 using the XMP profile and the default 1.45v (those are the settings used for most testing so far).
- some quick tests using info from the ocn post (linked above) "To find highest fclk set all timings to auto, go into advanced, amd overclocking: set soc to 1.15v, iod to 1.05v, ccd to 1.00v and vddp to 0.95v, ProcODT to 34 on SR (single rank) and 40 on DR (dual rank), try to boot 1900fclk." Only managed up to 1866/3733, the system stops before post (requiring bios reset to restart) at 1900 and 2000 (tried as I read reports of a weird donut hole at 1900). Tried this test with everything else at default as well as with PBO curves (don't think it makes a difference but at least tried anyway).
- At 3600, OCCT starts throwing a huge amount of errors after about 45 minutes (0-45 minutes there are 0 errors). Seems reasonably stable but can't stand the errors. Voltages tried: 1.44v, 1.45v, 1.46v
- At 3666, erorrs start throwing much more quickly than at 3600. Tried using XMP as well as manual, same results. If I set all the ram timings to Auto, it's a bit more stable but timings are (by comparison) looser and overall results worse than at 3600. Voltages tried 1.45-1.47v
- 3733 is the highest that's managed to post and load up windows but, welcome to whea (and other errors) city. At this speed, the board switches from 1T to 2T and IF drops to 1:2. Can manually set 1T as well as 1:1 but stability is garbage at any of the settings I've tried. Voltages tried 1.46-1.49v
- The sticker on the box lists 1.45-1.65v as the "normal" operating voltages
- Tried the below settings in that ocn article but system wouldn't post:
If on Samsung B-die, Micron rev E/B or Hynix CJR/DJR try
CL 16
RCD 20 (16 or 17 on B-die)
RP 20 (same as RCD on B-die)
RAS=CL+RCD
RC=RAS+RP
RRDS/RRDL/FAW 6/8/24, 5/7/20 or 4/6/16
WR/RTP 16/8
WTRS/WTRL 4/12
RFC 600 (Micron), 560 (Hynix), 320 (Samsung B-die)
RDRDSCL 4
WRWRSCL 4
CWL=CL
RDWR=RCD x 2 (+1 or 2 on dual rank
WRRD 1 on SR, 3 on DR

So...feeling a little frustrated as I'm not able to (as yet, maybe/hopefully that'll change with your input lol) get the ram dialed in. Didn't think this should be so difficult. I also have some 4000 and 4133 sticks but not sure whether it's even worth giving them a shot?

Note: Other weirdness which may or may not be related to the ram situation (but I could use some help with)....the keyboard and mouse stop working for about 2 seconds every 3-4 minutes. I set the usb root hubs to never power down but that didn't help.

Next component is the 3090Ti. I'm using afterburner with the volts and power set to their maximums (using the stock bios). Will flash the bios once I figure out which one for my specific card here: https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios...&version=&interface=&memType=&memSize=&since= The one I'm thinking is this one as it gives the highest power (as I seem to have good temps for more powah): https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/245638/evga-rtx3090ti-24576-220426
- 3D Mark scores are decent but, again, nothing to write home about.
- Haven't played with it a lot yet but something just doesn't seem right. All the guides I've read point to thermals as the limiting aspect but the hottest the card ever gets is 74-75C so am not sure what I'm doing wrong but figure it's gotta do with the curve. Any oc guidance for this card would be super appreciated, 74C...it's gotta have more to give.

Thank you for reading through this mess. Any tips, hints, links would (of course) be super appreciated. Attaching my bios settings for 3600...maybe I've just got some wrong?

Thank you SOOO much for any assistance!

-funsoul

PS- Couldn't get Ctl-F2 to save the bios to a text file (what's up with that? It just sits there doing nothing, clicking ok returns to the prior menu but no file gets saved) so here are some screens of the main settings (other settings used are the ones from the key points and ocn articles.

 

[dejo]

with Ryzen cpu's you have to watch out for the infinity fabric setting, this can get you when setting memory speeds as you wan tot try to stay in 1:1 mode if possible. I would see where you can get on that setting, work to max that out and then start with your mem OC

 

[funsoul]

Thanks dejo! Yeah...have no problem keeping 1:1 but just can't seem to get things 100% stable at 3600, 3666 or 3733 yet

 

[dejo]

I have never worked with the 5900x or 5950x but have an R75700G that will go mid 4xxx on infinity fabric. The ram that I use in my R7 build https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820374145?Item=N82E16820374145

 

[funsoul]

Those are some nice sticks, for sure! B-die FTW!

Since I've got them laying around....think it's worth trying the 4000's or 4133's just to see what happens? Can't get 1900 or 2000 on IF so far so thinking the best I could hope for is around 4133 but 1:2?

 

[dejo]

max the infinity fabric and then go for max clocks on the timings and speed. You can set a static value for infinity fabric and not have to fight it to see where the mem is good to

 

[funsoul]

yeah...best that can actually post is 3733 so figure that's it. Just trying to get stable at, ideally, 3733 but at this point I'd be almost happy with 3600 or 3666.

 

[dejo]

is docp setting the voltage for you?

 

[funsoul]

Yeah...on docp/auto...it applies a bit more than the sticks actually need (1.474v) so I manually set it to 1.45. Still get loads of errors at 3600 even with ddr volts in the 1.44-1.48v range (and error rates skyrocket at 3666 and 3733 speeds)

 

[EarthDog]

Ryzen + 32GB + 3600 MHz = effort. Lol

Likely need to run 1:2 and add so SOC voltage for that amount of RAM.

APUs like dejo has, iirc, will be better with IF clocks. For 32GB and regular ryzen, it's tough to get more than 3600.. especially at 1:1. But unless your pushing 4000+ I believe its better to run 1:1 with lower speeds.

 

[dejo]

this is after movng my 5700G to a tiny pc in an Inwin Chopin case with only 200w psu. but should maybe give you something to attempt

Post magically merged: Aug 14, 2022

Higher speeds

 

[dejo]

it seems that I remember that my sticks did not like tWCL of less that 16. That is just me trying to remember, but it is where I have it set currently too

 

[funsoul]

Wow! That's rockin' and rollin' for sure dejo! I'll try the current sticks @3733 with your 4000 settings (maybe c15 will get 3733, will give that a shot, too).

 

[Woomack]

it seems that I remember that my sticks did not like tWCL of less that 16. That is just me trying to remember, but it is where I have it set currently too

Generally wCL has to be equal or lower than CL. It's safe to set both the same when you overclock RAM at something less standard. When you set RAM at CL14 then wCL13 sometimes doesn't work. The same CL16 and wCL15 or some other settings. For initial OC, it's always safe to set CL=wCL.

@funsoul
On Ryzen 5000 non-APU you should go for 1:1 up to 4000 but most CPUs won't make more than ~3866 on 2x8GB and ~3733 on 2x16GB. There are some tests that will like higher RAM clocks at 1:2. By high, I mean something like 4600+. I found any point in 1:2 at 4800+ but Ryzen 5000 non-APU typically hits a wall at 4800-4933. Samsung B at 4800 CL16 1:2 looks pretty good too, but performs like 3600-3733 CL14 1:1... and 3733 is easier to stabilize.
On ROG motherboards, there are 4133 CL14/tight subs 1:2 OC profiles, so there is probably a point in 1:2 for some benchmarks.
As I see in older tests, my 5900X was working at 3733 CL14 with Team Group 2x16GB 3600 CL16-16-16/Samsung B kit. I can't find any more detailed settings. Almost all my 2x16GB reviews are on Intel. The last one could make 3733 CL13 Gear 1 and 4266 CL14 Gear 2 on Z590 and about 1.6V.

If you use Samsung B-die then you probably want to stick with 3600-3800 1:1 and 14-14-14. For 12-12-12 you will need high voltages and good motherboard, while X570 TUF is pretty average for RAM tweaking. Dual-rank, so 2x16GB Samsung B, will give a bit better results but will run 1-2 ratios lower, so as I said 3600-3733 will be probably max, if the motherboard won't limit you.

If you had good Hynix or Micron then you could try 4800+ 1:2 as results are also not bad (if sub-timings are well set). Micron/Hynix is generally underrated because all repeat the same schemes they see on the web and barely anyone tests something else than Samsung. So everyone will tell you that Samsung B is the best, even though they never tested anything else.
Ryzen 4000/5000 APU is another story and it's hard to compare that directly. For APUs Micron/Hynix can be even better than Samsung. I mean you can set dual-rank Hynix A at 4600 1:1 or Micron B at 5600-5800 CL18 1:2 and both will perform better than Samsung 1:1. Dual-rank Samsung barely ever makes more than 4266 and is highly motherboard dependant, and single-rank has problems to pass 5000.

 

[funsoul]

Thanks guys! Got the ram dialed in at 3733/1866....the sticks just needed a little more juice (1.50v). OCCT 1 hour and other tests are passing np. 2000 IF just isn't happening (thanks for making me feel a little better about that Woomack! lol).

So....now I'm back to the cpu. Would love to squeeze more out of it while still keeping below 90. Don't have a lot of temp headroom so could use a settings check to see where i can save some voltages and get a little more upside. Comparing against subs on hwbot, my scores are only so-so (a few to a lot of slots below Woomack's). 68,600 gb3, 8900 r20, 84.123 y-cruncher2.5B, 2.138 wp32, 125fps x265 1080P, 29.5fps x265 4K. Getting huge deltas between core and effective speeds.

 

[EarthDog]

Are you looking for scores on Hwbot or for the chip to be at its best for normal use?

 

[funsoul]

Atm...shooting for max oc to nail out some boints. After that, want to focus on pure gaming. Card is over the top for the monitor but, in 2023, hoping for a next gen vr headset that'll eat everything the card can throw at it.

update: since ram is mostly ok now and videocard results don't look too shabby, going to move 5900x oc part to a new thread in the AMD section.