Need feedback for first water cool build

[Conumdrum]

Say your at 5C Dt now. DOUBLING radiators will drop the DT down by half. A whopping 2.5C lower core temps for how much money and radiator sillyness?

Doubling fans increases noise and does NOT double performance.

You have a high overclock, get used to temps like that with that much voltage applied.

Try another Tpaste at least.

 

[JeremyCT]

I agree with Conundrum that another application of thermal paste is worth a shot.

I also looked up some info on the radiator you're using. Performance nearly doubles going from ultra-slow fans to moderate fans, so that's part of your issue if your fans are truly only running at 800 rpm. Find a way to kick them up to 1200-1400 rpm and you should see better temps.

 

[DerStig]

I do see better temps at 1400 rpm. My fans are rated at 800-2000 rpm. If I run them at 1900 rpm, I see about 12-13C improvement (I posted the results in one of my previous posts). That's a lot. To me, if I were to add another set of fans, and run the entire push/pull setup at say 1000 rpm, I'd see an improvement of at least 8C, which is a lot more than what conumdrum is saying I would see (only 2.5C).

The test I did cleaarly shows that I am not removing heat from my loop as fast as my PC is creating heat.

8 fans will run me for about $200. That's nothing compared to what I spent overall for this PC. After spending 6-7k on the build, if another $200 will make such drastic difference, so be it.

As for adding a 3rd radiator (I just realized I cannot add a 360 because of my PSU, so I can only add a 3rd 480), I have to do that anyways for when I will add 2 more GTX 680s in 2-3 months.

 

[DerStig]

Just to give you an idea, when I have the fans at 600 rpm and surf the web/check e-mail/etc, I get 53C temps. If I run them at max speed, that drops to 43C-44C. That's 10C difference and you know that difference increases as the temps increase. I know the cooling performance is not linear with the number of fans, but even if I get 60-70% utilization, that means 6-8C which is significant.

 

[Conumdrum]

Agreed. Are the temp differences close to the same amount at load? And if you don't mind the extra noise (there will be some) double up on the fans like you suggested.

Looking at those fans, I wonder if the pressure (static) is kinda low for a radiator even though you have a SR-1 rad, low fin density.

Could you do some research on the rated pressure/CFM on your fans vs the ever still really best Gentle Typhoon 1850 RPM AP-15 fans?

Maybe someone can chime in. Pressure ratings is so important to push air through the rad.

Not sure exactly what NB fans you have, but give this link a look.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums...0mm-Fan-Testing-on-an-MCR120-Radiator-Round-6

 

[JeremyCT]

Adding another radiator starts getting a little silly. A single SR1 360, with 1.5 gpm of flow and dT of 10, is tested to dissipate ~250 watts of heat. Assuming linear scaling with your 2 x 480 sized SR1s, you should be able to dissipate 650 watts at low fans speeds. Up the fan speed to around 1000 rpm and you should be able dissipate over 900 watts of heat. Up the fan speed to 1400 rpm and testing shows about 1200 watts dissipated!

If we shoot for a dT of 5, the numbers get cut in half. 325 watts at low speed. 450 watts at 1000 rpm. 600 watts at 1400 rpm.

Your system is dissipating the heat just fine, it's not like you have thermal runaway. It seems that it's settling on an equilibrium point higher than you'd like at the moment. You'd like to lower your dT, which I don't think is quite as low as Conundrum is assuming if I'm reading the review charts on the SR1 correctly.

In any case, you have plenty of rad capacity at present. Just keep those fans spinning a hair faster. Since you value low noise so much, I'd see if there's a shroud available for your rad somewhere. ~30 mm deep is ideal. Shrouds have been shown to really increase performance without adding extra noise. If were you I'd do a shroud before I went push-pull, particularly since you want to keep the noise as low as possible.

One thing I'm curious about at the pictures don't really show ... your fans are configured to push, correct? So they're drawing air from that center space and pushing it out of the case? What's bringing air into that center area? Adding one fan to push air into that common plenum area could yield measurable results. Not as much as adding another 8 fans, but it still might be measurable.

EDIT: I was typing that for a really long time. Conundrum's right (as usual). Better fans might get you closer to where you want to be if those prove to not be very good in terms of static pressure. Some Gentle Typhoon AP-15s plus a shroud and you might be golden.

 

[JeremyCT]

More info, I was doing some more reading, and it appears that lower speed fans perform better when configured as pull instead of push. Higher speed fans do better as push. If you have the patience to reconfigure things, try reconfiguring your fans in a pull arrangement and see if there's a difference in temps.

Source: http://martinsliquidlab.i4memory.com/Radiator-Fan-Orientation-And-Shroud-Testing-Review.html

 

[DerStig]

I have 9 of these. As frozenCpu stopped carrying typhoons (the ones I wanted) and that these are the new deal (they are supposedly better), I decided to get them.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._800_-_2000_RPM_Hot_Item.html?tl=c165s358b160

This delta number seems quite important. Can someone tell me how I can safely and effectively measure the water temperature without too much headache? If you can find something from frozencpu, that'd be great.

My system is dissipating heat, I agree, my point is, it can dissipate a lot more. The fact that so much temperature change happens with fans going faster proves that. You also need to remember that noise db is not additive. Having a fan of X db does not mean that will be 2X if I double the number of fans, most likely it will be 1.1db, but the CFM difference will be a lot higher.

I keep my system in my bedroom. I need to be able to use my PC without annoying my wife, if that makes sense The whole point of water cooling was so that I can have an extreme OC system that is quiet. I spent so much money for this, in fact, I now went back and checked, I spent $2,300 for water cooling for hardware that is worth a bit more than that. That being said, when giving me advice, please consider money is not an issue and that's not because I am a rich guy as I'm definitely not, but because I spent so much money already, if spending a few more dollars will make a decent amount of improvement, so be it.

 

[DerStig]

And actually looking at the stats of the two fans, noiseblockers I have are significantly better than scythe fans

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1..._800_-_2000_RPM_Hot_Item.html?tl=c165s358b160

http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/051/d1225c12b1ap_detail.html

132.4 m^3/h vs 98 m^3/h That's about 25% more pressure.

 

[JeremyCT]

132.4 m^3/h vs 98 m^3/h That's about 25% more pressure.

That's airflow rating, not static pressure. You're learning all sorts of new terms here, lol.

If the fans are indeed good, I still think the next step is switching from push to pull, perhaps adding a shroud, and re-applying the thermal paste.

 

[DerStig]

That's airflow rating, not static pressure. You're learning all sorts of new terms here, lol.

If the fans are indeed good, I still think the next step is switching from push to pull, perhaps adding a shroud, and re-applying the thermal paste.

Yes I am, I apologize.

Can you tell me what the shrouds actually do?

 

[Conumdrum]

The tech speaking at these buying places are supplied by the makers of the fans. Meaning a marketing writer does as well as he can based on the bias of the manufacturer testing.

You only find good results/reviews when the scientific methods and equipment are the same across all fans. Thus what you read on the buying sites are just to get a boat payment by the marketer writer using questionable info from the manufacturer of the fans.

Maybe Martinsliquidlabs.org, xtreme systems, our own fan testing results , and your hard work to learn the differences between fans can make all the diff.

I just think your fans at 800 RPM aren't blowing ANY air through the rads. Unless you crank them up, then you see significant differences. Better rated for RADIATOR fans will mean lower RPM for better airflow.

It's just something few pay attention to till they have to. You got great case fans, not good radiator fans. I can tell by the blade design right away what your fans are good for. Compare your fans to the AP-15 fans. Which will push air against a blockage better?

 

[Conumdrum]

Shrouds can be explained at Martinsliquidlabs.org. Scientific test results too. You don't have room for two shrouds.

Edit: Now I see your exact fans, they look pretty good, not like the other ones I found in review. Hmmm, 800 RPM might just not push air through the rad, and Jeremy CT might have a point. Your case airflow could be all messed up.

 

[JeremyCT]

Check out the link I posted earlier as my source.

It's a little technical, but in reality this is pretty sciency stuff. Technical and sciency go well together.

 

[Conumdrum]

More info, I was doing some more reading, and it appears that lower speed fans perform better when configured as pull instead of push. Higher speed fans do better as push. If you have the patience to reconfigure things, try reconfiguring your fans in a pull arrangement and see if there's a difference in temps.

Source: http://martinsliquidlab.i4memory.com/Radiator-Fan-Orientation-And-Shroud-Testing-Review.html

I have always used pull on my rads since I use lower RPM. The airflow is smoother through the rad, and a lesser dead spot from the fan hub. It's evident on my intake filters, they have an even coating of dust. Filters are on the non- fan side, the fans suck air through the rad.

ACk, just saw those fan prices. At that $$$ they better be good OMG$$$$$.

 

[DerStig]

For reference, this is my case:

http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4...s/700/STH10_1__20554.1349967163.1280.1280.JPG

The radiators are at the top compartment. There is a massive vent at the top of the case where radiators pull air from.

I am reading that article and maybe I should try to fan configuration tomorrow to see if it makes a difference.

Another thing I forgot to mention is, I have demciflex filters all around my case, on every single vent possible (you can see it from my pictures in the OP).

 

[DerStig]

Another thing I keep forgetting, and I think its pretty important, is that is there a table/chart that shows the temperature people get for certain vcore values for 3930k (or other 2011 chips)? I don't really care about the clock speeds as someone can achieve the same OC as I do with 1.3 vcore and have 15C lower temps. I have been googling for this for so many days now but results are extremely inconclusive, in that, I cannot see consistent results.

 

[KurtBlanken]

To reiterate a points I made earlier:



As you can see from this crude and wildly inaccurate drawing, one possible situation is that there is a mixing of intake and exhaust. Another possible situation is a lack of intake, making your fans work harder than they should have to.

New point: I don't see the reasoning behind those filters? They will assuredly hamper your airflow, making you push the fans harder, and they also seem to be filtering your exhaust.

 

[DerStig]

To reiterate a points I made earlier:



As you can see from this crude and wildly inaccurate drawing, one possible situation is that there is a mixing of intake and exhaust. Another possible situation is a lack of intake, making your fans work harder than they should have to.

New point: I don't see the reasoning behind those filters? They will assuredly hamper your airflow, making you push the fans harder, and they also seem to be filtering your exhaust.

I live in an apartment where all the flooring is carpet and to make matters worse, there is central A/C. If I clean the filters, in a matter of minutes, they become literally white. That being said, this is true for my intake (proves that intake does work), exhaust panels are clean, so I'm going to try removing those filters and see how it goes.

I just had such horrifying experiences with my old antec 1200 build and dust. The case became dust magnet and no matter what I did and how many cans of compressed air I used or dyson vacuum cleaners I tried, I cannot get the dust out. So I acted a bit defensively and got the best filter there is for this case.

 

[JeremyCT]

Some things I've learned about dust.

As has already been pointed out, dust can't get in through an exhaust. You don't need filters there, it's only impeding airflow. I like filters too, I use them on my own system, but you do need to make the fans work a little harder when using a filter than you would without. If you're not convinced, remove the filters and see what it does to your temps. I bet they go down.

Also, if you can somehow get the case up higher off the floor, the dust level drops dramatically as you go up. My buddy has an open system that we built into a shelf above his monitors. I was convinced that it would be a dust nightmare, but it has stayed surprisingly clean compared to his old system that was on the floor.