Need help with Overclocking Athlon 64 X2 3800+ on GA-M56S-S3

[kedolf]

This is my first post so I most warmly welcome everybody. I did my first OC just a couple of days ago so I'm not even a newbie yet just an aspirant to become one. There still are many confusing aspects of the whole game for me and I don't quite grasp all the interdependencies yet. Forgive me that please as well as my possibly inadequate usage of English - it's not my mother tongue. My specs and state of OC are as follows:
Cpu: Athlon 64 X2 [email protected] (ADA3800IAA5CU - F2 89W)
CPU Alias: Windsor-512
Revision/Stepping : 4B / 2
Stepping Mask : BH-F2
CPUID Revision: 00040FB2h
CPU voltage: 1.425V
CPU Clock: 2555.8 MHz (original: 2000 MHz, overclock: 28%)
CPU Multiplier: 10x
CPU FSB: 255.6 MHz (original: 200 MHz, overclock: 28%)
HyperTransport Clock: 766.7 MHz
Memory Bus: 319.5 MHz
DRAM:FSB Ratio CPU/8

CPU Cache:
L1 Code Cache 64 KB per core (Parity)
L1 Data Cache 64 KB per core (ECC)
L2 Cache 512 KB per core (On-Die, ECC, Full-Speed)

Mobo: Gigabyte GA-M56S-S3
Mobo ID: 08/20/2010-NF-MCP65-6A61LG01C-00
Chipset: nVIDIA nForce 560, AMD Hammer
Memory Timings: 5-5-5-18 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) @ 1.8V
Command Rate (CR): 2T
DIMM1: A-Data DQVE1A16: 1 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM (5-5-5-18 @ 400 MHz)
(4-4-4-12 @ 266 MHz) (3-3-3-9 @ 200 MHz)
DIMM2: A-Data DQVE1A16: 1 GB DDR2-800 DDR2 SDRAM (5-5-5-18 @ 400 MHz)
(4-4-4-12 @ 266 MHz) (3-3-3-9 @ 200 MHz)

Award BIOS Type Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG
Award BIOS Message GA-M56S-S3 F6h
DMI BIOS Version F6h

OS: 7 32-bit

Video: EVGA e-GeForce GT 610
GPU Code Name: GF119 (PCI Express 2.0 x16 10DE / 104A, Rev A1)
GPU Clock (Geometric Domain): 270 MHz (original: 810 MHz)
GPU Clock (Shader Domain): 540 MHz (original: 1620 MHz)
Memory Clock: 324 MHz (original: 500 MHz)
No aftermarket cooling, just what came in the box.

What I would like to know is how to push it up higher, say up to 2.6 or maybe even 2.7 without an aftermarket cooling - an upgrade is not an option now I'm flat broke. At 2.58 IntelBurnTest froze the system so I came back to 2.56, run it again on max, got an OK congrats, then run Prime95 on Torture Test for 4hrs and passed (load temps fluctuated around 53 - 56 deg Celsius while running the test). I know some guys on this forum made it up to 2.8 so obviously something can be done here but I'm not an expert. This is where you come in and my kind request for help. I'd also like to ask somebody to explain to me what is my CPU CLOCK RATIO (now set on Auto), by which coefficients it is determined and is there any benefit from setting it manually:
x5, x5.5, x6, x6.5, x7, x7.5, x8, x8.5, x9, x9.5, x10?
I know ADATA mem modules do not OC well but can't I do something with timings? I will be insanely grateful for your help.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

What I would like to know is how to push it up higher, say up to 2.6 or maybe even 2.7 without an aftermarket cooling / (load temps fluctuated around 53 - 56 deg Celsius

I suggest using after market cooling. You already have overclocked, we we know that you know how. But without proper cooling, these chips just tend to get hot.

GLHF

 

[trents]

I second what ShrimpBrime said. You will be frustrated if you don't get better cooling.

 

[RGone]

Okay we have a second on needing better cooling when overclocking. In fact cooling is the limiting factor in most overclocks.

I vote yes, need more cooling.
RGone...

 

[kedolf]

we we know that you know how

Hi,
I know you know I know how while I really don't. What I meant was some possible alternative settings. I run it with 2.58 at 1.450MHZ and the system froze during the benchmark but the temps were not that excessive - up to 55-56 C during the test not after, a long way from max 70C for this CPU. Now I have 2.56 at 1.425 stable. I also know some guys made it to 2.7 on lower voltage so there must be a way and I was hoping you could figure it out how. As I said before my "experience" in OC is counted in single days that's why I came here. Some five minutes ago I came back to CR 1T and already noticed an improvement. OS and then desktop full of icons are loading faster. So to sum it up I know there is a way but I don't know how. Maybe some of you do...
edit: What about my CPU CLOCK RATIO - could you help me at least with that?

 

[trents]

Hi,
I know you know I know how while I really don't. What I meant was some possible alternative settings. I run it with 2.58 at 1.450MHZ and the system froze during the benchmark but the temps were not that excessive - up to 55-56 C during the test not after, a long way from max 70C for this CPU. Now I have 2.56 at 1.425 stable. I also know some guys made it to 2.7 on lower voltage so there must be a way and I was hoping you could figure it out how. As I said before my "experience" in OC is counted in single days that's why I came here. Some five minutes ago I came back to CR 1T and already noticed an improvement. OS and then desktop full of icons are loading faster. So to sum it up I know there is a way but I don't know how. Maybe some of you do...
edit: What about my CPU CLOCK RATIO - could you help me at least with that?

The 70c max is a "safe" temp for that CPU family, i.e., safe in the sense of not frying it. But "safe" and "stable" are two different things entirely. What we know from experience is that as you begin to overclock a CPU the max safe temp doesn't change but the max stable temp goes down. At the high end of the overclock range most AMD CPUs previous to the FX series would become unstable somewhere in the 55-60c range.

 

[kedolf]

most AMD CPUs previous to the FX series would become unstable somewhere in the 55-60c range.

So that's it for me then? No chance to push it to the 4800+ level?

 

[RGone]

1. > Clock ratio aKa Cpu Multiplier is set by me to the actual multiplier which in your situation is 10.

2. > When I see others do what I wish to do, I try and contact them personally and ask them about their setup. I see many cpu speeds that after closer examination are no way close to stable for 2 hours or more using P95 Blend mode. In those situations those 'reported' clocks were not usable by me since they were not stable.

3. > The overclocking game is played by upping cpu speed and stressing to check for stability. Add voltage to the cpu to bring about stability when it is necessary as when P95 Blend fails. Keep temperatures in the suspected, expected as suggested range so that stability is considered to be possible at any rate. This means that in general there is no cpu that will fare very well on the stock cpu cooler that ships with the cpu. So the first change in general is a move to a better cpu cooler and most especially so when pushing an overclock. 28% overclock on that particular older Windsor core is pretty fair on stock cooling.

4. One thing to remember is that no two systems respond 'exactly' the same and often not even close to the same. I have sent every bios setting in my late CHV mobo to a bud of mine and he can key them into his bios on his own CHV board and his system will not even finish a clean boot to windows. So much for borrowing someone else's bios settings. Just too many variables to use someone else's speeds to decide that you must have that same speed. When I was using 3800+. 4200+. 4600+ and the 4800+ cpus, I had to go thru at least 2 or 3 on the 4200+ cpu to get a decent clockable one. So there are dogs of a cpu that will not clock well at all.
RGone...

 

[kedolf]

When I see others do what I wish to do, I try and contact them personally

Hi, I do thank you for that input. I have found out recently that Pros are not too eager to engage in hand-to-hand guidance with newbies as if they were never beginners themselves. Anyway getting back to the matter. I've encountered some discrepancies between what I set in BIOS and what Windows or sys info tools tell me so I decided to re-clock everything from scratch. I was wondering if it would be very inconvenient for you if I contact you personally for an advise should I get stuck on some level? From what I've already learned about OC is that it is like learning a foreign language - if you develop bad habits when you begin you pay very dearly as you progress and obviously I want to avoid that.

 

[RGone]

@ "kedolf". I have no problem with PMs to me but I really try and keep most of the trial and error in the forum itself so that others can benefit from the discussion. I read your post #9 and you seem one that is in "learn" mode and that is where we all are most of the time. I seem to "play" with my own rig more than I shoold. And each time I seem to learn something more or at least something additional.

I wrote a short how to on using Offset Vcore mode for some of these later Asus boards we were using on the FX processors in order to let them cool off since they are blazing hot. Wrote the guide and posted "then" tried to use offset Vcore mode myself and said to self >> "screw-it". Hehehe Then a few months later got REinterested and spent the time to get a handle on offset Vcore for my CHV board and "now" would not have it any other way. So we all need to be in a new information gathering mode all the time.

I am looking for my link to a website that makes a very good outline of the various names for voltages on AMD and Intel mobos. I thought I had it but just tried it and it is not link to what I wanted. Am looking for it and will post so the terminology is better understood.
RGone...ster.

EDIT:
Okay the website I wanted has changed their format slightly and it has changed the URLs. Here is what I was looking for and I glance it regular when I have to deal with motherboards that I have not and never will set hands or eyes on, but need to know what the odd bios names often mean. No two companies use the same nomenclature it seems. Hehehe

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/arti...age-Configurations-from-the-Motherboard/995/1

Voltage naming on various type mobos.
END EDIT.

 

[kedolf]

website that makes a very good outline of the various names for voltages on AMD and Intel mobos.

Thanks for the link, it's a great site. As a matter of fact I needed something like that.
Some BIOS option labels really suck and some of them are downright misleading even for an English native speaker with tech background. And this is what a newbie must start with - glossary, so he can tell HT Link Frequency from HT Link multiplier. I just learned today it's the same thing.

 

[RGone]

This is what we need to see for sure and a real good starting point.

Normally during setup and testing we disable C1/E, C6, Cool N Quiet, APC, TurboCore and in windows performance manager itself we set to "performance" mode. That way there are not "other" settings messing with the overclocking process. Some of those settings are not available on all models of cpu but where in evidence we disable for setup of overclock process.

CPU Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

Memory Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

SPD Tab in CPUz from CPUID com

And this is screen capture of HWMonitor (free version) from CPUID com
HWMonitor has been scrolled enough and large enough to show Min/Max of Voltages and includes the CPU CORE TEMPS / "package" temps fully visible. Latest versions of HWMonitor show the CPU Core Temp as a "Package Temp" and is only shown as a single temp since there were never multple, individual core temp sensors anyway.

This capture is made of HWMonitor after it has been open and running on the desktop logging Min/Max temps and voltages while Prime 95 was running Blend Mode test on all cores for at least 20 mins and then the capture of HWMonitor was made and it shows the Min/Max temps and voltages before P95 Blend was started and while running P95 Blend mode and gives much greater insight into how the system is performing without guessing.

In order to attach screenshots of INDIVIDUAL images as suggested, first crop and capture the images with Snipping Tool found in Windows Accessories or equivalent. Then click on Go Advanced, a button at the bottom of every new post window. Then click on the little paperclip tool at the top of the Advanced post window when it opens. Clicking on the paperclip tool brings up the file browser/upload tool and the rest is fairly obvious.

 

[kedolf]

This is what we need to see for sure and a real good starting point. Normally during setup and testing we disable C1/E, C6, Cool N Quiet, APC, TurboCore and in windows performance manager itself we set to "performance" mode.

I run all my OSes (there are three: 7 Pro, two instances or 8.1 Pro on three out of four physical HDDs) on performance mode from day one.
Cool N Quiet: keep always Disabled
Smart CPU Fan Control: keep always Disabled
PCIE Spread Spectrum: keep always Disabled
SATA Spread Spectrum: keep always Disabled
HT Spread Spectrum: keep always Disabled
and then: K8<->NB HT Speed: 3x
K8<->NB HT Width: Auto
CR: 1T
I don't think I have C1/E and C6 options in my Bios, don't know what APC and TurboCore relay to in my case. Now, CPU Freq is 256 at CPU Voltage Control 1.375V. There were discrepancies among these values set in BIOS and Windows & sys info tools readings. I know voltage can fluctuate but CPU Freq from mid 2-forties to 254 were always 1 lower in OS than in BIOS, 248 was 247, 250 was 249 etc. Only Sandra got it always right. Now it's OK everywhere. Here's the link to some detailed readouts as well as screens you asked for. Sorry I didn't bother cropping them. Too many. All were taken while Prime was running in Blend for 45 min - 1hr. I've done total re-clocking from scratch today, no clear CMOS though. The weird thing is I've never managed to pushed it up so high on so low voltage before. Gives me an incentive to go higher. I'm very curious what would be your feedback.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8tfWk0vzmviN1dEUFZ1WUY4NVE&usp=sharing

 

[trents]

No, in that generation of AMD technology you would not find c1E and C6 or APC or TurboCore. Those technologies didn't come along until socket AM3/AM3+. The biggest obstacle to overclocking the AM2 generation CPUs was that you could not separate out the HT Link frequency for downward adjustment and it would cause instability pretty quick. When AM2+ socket came along there was a separate adjustment for that.