Need some feedback/info/help on a spec.

[oscarbravo]

Hi ive a lian li pc70/75 with window.
Will be running for now Asus Rampage formula with Q6600 Go cpu standard atmo With 8 gig of Corsair domminator 1066 ram.HIS IceQ 6870 vid card turned up abit with amd overdrive thing.C&D drives WD velociraptors.
My PSU ive got for it is an Enermax Revolution 1050 watt.
Later im thinking of adding GPU into loop as thinking of later up moving to better GPU.
Need some feedback/pointers on specs ive sort of decided on?
So far ive an Aquacool cpu cuplex XT/di? blocks one could be older one as other looks like fluid goes through sort of in round and up.
Have a vanilla laing dc5 pump? varible one.
EK spin dual bay res got new cheap!
Going with 1/2" barbs so far.

The other bits ive looked to are.
Alphacool monsta Full copper 480 rad 80mm thick one. sort of just enough room to shoehorn under lid.but does take out my top 2 bays really.
Looking for fans for it have few delta PFC's so was looking to go with them? that takes rad thickness to 120mmish.
Was just going with push blow so fans underneath should i go with a shroud for them?as found a pulse modding for 480's 30mm thick.
Or if i can't squeeze in above PSU could go with singles or triple one and have last one without?. But that's if you think i need to use.
What other bits would you say i needed for rad install?
They do a neoprene gasket to go between rad and case.
Other way i looked at was going with a Koolance shroud that makes rad sit more or less almost outside case(more for thinner rads)

I do have few idea's 360 instead of 480? or whatever you thinks a better rad?.
The other idea i had was to go with the 9X120/140 panel rads and mount to passenger side of pc case? cut holes in panel or square hole so fans sort of cross vent case (have to make so some slack in tubing so can just slide bit forward if need to get in that side?
When rang place myside/uk. said about it to them they didnt recommend it on side as not very good/efficient? I can't see why it wouldn't be as good a 480 at top as to me surface area to thickness surface should be better pro rata as 80mm halved is 40mm x is 960 approx.
Where as other rad has an extra 120 fan.
Something like the Phyobia ones.
Be interesting with idea's/thoughts on this one versus other?
Also what fans would you suggest?
As with either of those rads it won't have too much to do for now.
As ive single 120mm rad (Ali/dellianware one) with a delta pfc using Zalman fan mate1(delta run butt upwards turn controller up fans slows down)
So use on pink/purple colour led 75%?ish as im writing this most cores @20 oC had max in game in summer around 50oC.

Pipe work and anti algae i can get from them(silver coil?)

would you go with any colouring/fancy liquids/UV reactive stuff? ive 5 liters of distilled water already.
My other thought was with EK spin res that would have to be in 4th/5th bays as rad/fans just encroach down to 3rd bay.
So that was why i was thinking of shroud/cover to lift up/out of case.

The other thing ive planned is to mount one or two fans in base to blow under GPU so also blow over mobo to keep temps down on that as many forget/neglect to think about mobo parts.as no side vents/fans to cover that area as is.
As the PC70 is a bit asthmatic in puff area with only 2 80mm Adda fans front and 2 rear.
One thing i did find was a converter shroud on flea bay where can use a 120mm fan over an 80mm hole(like a tapered funnel)
So going to make some custom feet for case as plastic turn out ones are poo plus not sure if fan could fit inside below mobo or put underneath with magnetic filters so can flip off as don't want to be turning it upside down to clean filters as mounted that way will probably work just like a hoover?

But what i will do is sit case on top of my cabinet/drawer i made on top of a sheet of ali/stainless steel so draw cooler and clearer air instead of a wooden varnished surface.

I got the PC70 with most of the bits(slot covers for 3.25 and 5" bays(4 bays are the flip down fronts)It's in A1 condition For £25 so not to worried about cutting etc but also don't really want to ruin it as such a nice case.

Would also like to get a proper PWM controller that will fit in 3.25 bays like the one a couple have made on here as would prefer to be able to control top/bottom fans independently as fan mates ok but don't really fit in/look right sitting there.

So hope some of you can be of help. anyway many thanks in advance.

 

[givmedew]

Wow... I backed off for a minute before commenting too see if someone else would cut some of it down. I can't even remember what I was going to say in the beginning by the time I am to the middle. But here it goes.

You mention CPU blocks could be older and one may do loopy d loopy spirals J/K. Could you link to the ones you are talking about? Some older blocks used different designs like jet impingement and other things and may not be the best anymore. Even some of the fin/pin style ones that are just a couple years old like the Swiftech GT that I have on my i7 run noticeably hotter than new blocks like the HD and the Raystorm (complete opposites but both good performers).

What rad to go with and what accessories with the rad? Well if you are using 38mm fans and your pushing I would say no shroud. As for the gasket between the fans and the top of the case no need. Gasket between the fans and the radiator cant hurt but black electrical tape to seal between the fans and the rad works too. Between a 3x120 or a 4x120 I am a fan of whatever the biggest that you can fit. But keep in mind you have a dual bay RES and if you want to keep all your tubes looking nice you'll want the rad fittings on the same size as the res. For me that mean't no 4x120 fan because I did not want to have the fittings come out on the other side of the case and have to be run to the RES. It your choice though don't let anybody tell you that you don't need this or that as far as overkill goes lol.

As for the big panel radiator... I have a MoRa3 that I got from a member on this site and that is no pretty thing to be integrating into a case. If that is what you want to do don't let anyone tell you that it isn't efficient or anything like that. You could put 1 tiny case fan on that thing and let it run at 800RPM and it would still probably out perform any 360 480 radiator. I will be using mine with a 360 rad that is in the top of my case. I built a stand out of C channel aluminum and am going to hook it up with spill-less quick disconnects. You can either make a tube with disconnects on it for when it is disconnected or you can join the tubes on the inside of the case with a valve and shut the valve off when connected and open the valve when the rad is disconnected. Opening the valve would allow the water flow from the one tube to the other therefore completing your loop.

As for your pump if you have a d5 with a speed control use it. But I recommend that you run your system full out on prime95 for a few hours then start slowly turning the speed on the pump down until the temperature rises a few degrees then leave it there. Otherwise the d5 will add some heat to the loop.

As for fans if you want cheep big fans buy dell server deltas off ebay the ones with 4 wires. You will have to buy pins off performance-pcs and PWM 4 pin connectors off of them or frozen as well.

Anti-algae? I am worried more about corrosion. Dif people say different things and I have even changed my mind recently. I would have said distilled is fine especially since I can just change it out every 3 months because it is cheap and I used a silver kill coil that frozen gave to me for free. But now after seeing what can happen if you accidentally mix metals together in the loop I am bit worried. I now add swiftech green stuff to my water. I think the market for aftermarket liquid cooling water is crazy they are charging way to much for stuff that costs nothing to make but EK has been running a few different brands long term to figure out what happened to all the EK blocks. I think they are in denial if they don't admit some people had major corrosion issues with the nickel plating but at least they are long term benching some liquids.

I used fesser one pink uv in one of my computers because it looked amazing and NEVER AGAIN I did not have it in long but it covered EVERYTHING in the loop with pink residue. Even after hours of flushing with warm water pushed from the tap everything was stained. Even the copper was coated in pink.

So buyer beware! I have read some fluids that claim 2 or 3 cant remember which years and I am just like the HELL I am!

Changing your fluid often is what I like to do. Swiftech additive is a must for now but I am seriously considering using red line oil water wetter as in 4 years of using that stuff on a supercharged 3 cylinder wave runner, a 1000cc V-Twin (RC51), a 1000cc Inline 4 and a 636cc inline 4 I have never ONCE seen a spec of green corrosion. All those engines had coolant changes 3 times a year but still everything looked good.

And you might think your entire loop is copper but you would be wrong to think so unless you bought copper fittings. So my recommendation and it is a I am worried about it more than I probably need to be kind of recommendation but I really recommend some sort of corrosion inhibitor along with 6-9m coolant changes. I will continue changing mine regularly and like I said probably gonna switch to water wetter once it's cleared from my friend the chemist but I see no reason why not except that engines are not made from copper which is the only thing I need to check into for that stuff.

As for cooling the inside of your case... I have a 800D which is nice big and open
That used to be my cooling but no longer. As I did enough tests to tell me I really had no need to cool a 1155 board. Now an AM3 board was a different story but the 1155 board those fans did nothing for. Don't worry too much about pumping tons of air through the case... If 1 benefit of water cooling wasn't silence then it would almost be pointless. You yourself told us your CPU runs fine with a self contained cooler that's main design characteristics had to do with reliability and low-maintinance instead of performance. So take advantage of the lack of noise!

Most of your heat used to come from your CPU and GPU you take either or both of those to water cooling then your case temp is going to drop much more than a few fans could do. If your going to spend money on a bunch of fans just buy a Maze 5 GPU block for $22 off performance-pcs and slap a set of koolance sinks on the ram. My ram wasn't even cooled from the factory (670 DirectCUII).

 

[givmedew]

This is my setup for now this will change drastically in a few days but I am waiting on a part.

In this picture cool air is pushed through the top radiator by 3 different fans you will be doing the same from what I can tell. That air only increases in temperature a few degrees as the water is not nearly as warm as your processor. So it is good enough to displace any extremely hot pockets of air and then I have 1 single exhaust fan. Also I have 1 fan on the 2nd radiator that is more than enough for that radiator and it serves to stir the air around the video card so no hot air pockets there either.

By removing the CPU and GPU heat from the case there is not much heat left so all those components that used to have to stay within a safe range of heat are now free to breathe. I have measured with an IR Thermometer and nothing is getting too hot. Believe me I wanted it to because I put a lot of work and thought into how I should cool the motherboard because my 990FX Sabertooth board ran extremely hot but with the Intel 1155 socket it just doesn't need it.

 

[oscarbravo]

Hi thanks for help.
Yes it was long but have a few/many irons in fire so to speak and as either rad set up needs work/cutting/drilling to fit so to speak i'd rather get the rad set up etc decided on before plunging in with tools! as even though i got case for £25 it is still in perfect condition so would be a shame to butcher it needlessly.

I wouldnt mind finding out in real world tests etc how much difference there is/would be if any between monsta 360/480 as it is a'full' copper rad? and something like the phyoba 9x120 rad or even 9x140 plus it can be cooled by 200/220mm fans also.
Bearing in mind one's at top so drawing air upwards from mobo etc and other would be on the side so drawing side way's.
One way i guess is to find out watts dissipated by either types!
I just couldn't work out how he quoted that the phyoba rad on it's end/side wouldn't be efficient?

I tried when i got CPU block to get pics etc but couldn't find any that gave you actual pic's that showed from top etc so could see workings etc as markings arn't what you call from a german comp Dertusch technic? http://www.scan.co.uk/products/aqua-computers-cuplex-xt-di-775-g1-4-copper-cpu-blocks-(21527) this is what ive just found except my mounting arms are curved/longer so looks like it's acuplex-di-xt one the other one ive got from reading the gumpf is the older one which is all in the middle so to speak where as that goes to sides aswell with channels.

I'm planning to go with 1/2" fittings as ive many if need be could get swivel types for rad if need to.

With fluids the best would be the pinkish gear they use on Merc's and BMW's plus some better ford's etc as that's long life never need to change as know someone that worked on a very old merc that had that from new when had it to bits said it was like a new engine inside no corrosion at all plus it also lubricates the water pump.

Blue is yearly/short life.Green is mid life 5 years etc and pink/red is lifetime anti freeze.

Yes the water wetter is ok it breaks down surface tension so heat transfers quicker into water ways.but also think a water softer will do sim thing?

As you say about way too much bumpf/cost for coloured water it's usual thing with tech stuff? 80% hype and the rest is bulls***e.

Re 1155 boards etc or newer stuff.yes they'd probably run cooler now as alot moves onto CPU etc instead of north/south bridge heat but someone did say that i5 etc runs cool till you start trying to clock up etc not been there myself so can't comment.

Not sure yet on what im going to move onto from 775 was thinking of AMD like bulldozer 8 core or just a move to older i7 1366 board as not over blessed with wads of cash these days which is one reason i'd like to get rad choice right before getting.

But guess either would be ok for what ive got so far but later could add in GPU as my 6870 has an after market cooler type that HIS put onit so for now would rather leave that onit so can sell as is.

Have found a pair of EVGA Hydro copper 480's for £200 each or offers think FTW type?.
Are they any good or better than 6870 they are 1.5 gig ram type's.

Yes your rig looks good.
I'm just starting in building my own one now as one ive got is the self contained alienware one not sure how good it really is as one core is always hotter than others core 1 core 0 is lower and cores 2-3 are both the same temps.
Put a delta pfc 120 on it as original fan was crap(vantec stealth)think the system is at it's limits as if i wind fan up it only comes down by few deg's. is cooler now as winter was hotter in summer time though as was hot in my place now have to chip ice of pc to get it to work? LOL.

Anyway thank you for info/help sorry you found it a bit long but as said have a few idea's and want to see what's best plus would like to have up and running by xmas as my xmas prezzie to myself!. Cheers

 

[Conumdrum]

Hi thanks for help.
Yes it was long but have a few/many irons in fire so to speak and as either rad set up needs work/cutting/drilling to fit so to speak i'd rather get the rad set up etc decided on before plunging in with tools! as even though i got case for £25 it is still in perfect condition so would be a shame to butcher it needlessly.

I wouldnt mind finding out in real world tests etc how much difference there is/would be if any between monsta 360/480 as it is a'full' copper rad? and something like the phyoba 9x120 rad or even 9x140 plus it can be cooled by 200/220mm fans also.
Bearing in mind one's at top so drawing air upwards from mobo etc and other would be on the side so drawing side way's.

I know of no one that has done all the tests using the same gear for testing and the same fans etc. That's the only way you can get good comparisons.
a 360 rad is 360mm x 360mm x 3=? a 480 rad is 480mm x 480mm x3=? Do the math. Which has more area?

One way i guess is to find out watts dissipated by either types!

Depends on the fans. Only tests will tell, not marketer gobbly gook.

I just couldn't work out how he quoted that the phyoba rad on it's end/side wouldn't be efficient?

I tried when i got CPU block to get pics etc but couldn't find any that gave you actual pic's that showed from top etc so could see workings etc as markings arn't what you call from a german comp Dertusch technic? http://www.scan.co.uk/products/aqua-computers-cuplex-xt-di-775-g1-4-copper-cpu-blocks-(21527) this is what ive just found except my mounting arms are curved/longer so looks like it's acuplex-di-xt one the other one ive got from reading the gumpf is the older one which is all in the middle so to speak where as that goes to sides aswell with channels.

I'm planning to go with 1/2" fittings as ive many if need be could get swivel types for rad if need to.

With fluids the best would be the pinkish gear they use on Merc's and BMW's plus some better ford's etc as that's long life never need to change as know someone that worked on a very old merc that had that from new when had it to bits said it was like a new engine inside no corrosion at all plus it also lubricates the water pump.

You really really need to read our stickies to learn about liquid. I'll never ever use anything but what we suggest.

Blue is yearly/short life.Green is mid life 5 years etc and pink/red is lifetime anti freeze.

Yes the water wetter is ok it breaks down surface tension so heat transfers quicker into water ways.but also think a water softer will do sim thing?

As you say about way too much bumpf/cost for coloured water it's usual thing with tech stuff? 80% hype and the rest is bulls***e.

Re 1155 boards etc or newer stuff.yes they'd probably run cooler now as alot moves onto CPU etc instead of north/south bridge heat but someone did say that i5 etc runs cool till you start trying to clock up etc not been there myself so can't comment.

Not sure yet on what im going to move onto from 775 was thinking of AMD like bulldozer 8 core or just a move to older i7 1366 board as not over blessed with wads of cash these days which is one reason i'd like to get rad choice right before getting.

But guess either would be ok for what ive got so far but later could add in GPU as my 6870 has an after market cooler type that HIS put onit so for now would rather leave that onit so can sell as is.

Have found a pair of EVGA Hydro copper 480's for £200 each or offers think FTW type?.
Are they any good or better than 6870 they are 1.5 gig ram type's.

Yes your rig looks good.
I'm just starting in building my own one now as one ive got is the self contained alienware one not sure how good it really is as one core is always hotter than others core 1 core 0 is lower and cores 2-3 are both the same temps.
Put a delta pfc 120 on it as original fan was crap(vantec stealth)think the system is at it's limits as if i wind fan up it only comes down by few deg's. is cooler now as winter was hotter in summer time though as was hot in my place now have to chip ice of pc to get it to work? LOL.

Anyway thank you for info/help sorry you found it a bit long but as said have a few idea's and want to see what's best plus would like to have up and running by xmas as my xmas prezzie to myself!. Cheers

You got a few more weeks of learning before you can buy one part.

 

[Dark_n_Beyond]

You got a few more weeks of learning before you can buy one part.

Conumdrum is right. Take your time, do more reading, read some more, and repeat. Then you can do it right.

I did a bunch of research before I started my rig. I wish I had done more before I started buying stuff. Not that my rig is bad, but there are things I would have done differently. After the fact is a bad time to figure that out.

Pay attention to this guy. I've followed him on this board for a while now. He knows what he speaks of.

 

[givmedew]

Hi, do you already own that block? If yes is it the one that you are using now with the Dell cooler? The only reason I ask is because it is a pin block not a fin block so it is an older design. It may fine at cooling your system but I can't be certain myself.

As for the radiator not being efficient I think they where talking about with it being mounted to the side of the case it will not perform as good as it can BUT it is still going to perform much better than a single 3x120 or 4x120. There is a shootout of some of the best 18 fan or 9x120 radiators on the web.

The 480s are good but I don't know about the price. I just sold one of my 580s with full coverage block for $220 USD and that took weeks for someone to grab but I have no clue how it is over there.

You may be best off waiting till the next generation of GPUs launch and getting a universal VGA block. This current gen wastes a lot less energy than last gen and the next is going to be even better. So temps may be way down on the next cards but who knows until it happens.

You can get an RIIIE and full board block for cheap and throw a 920 or 930 on it. If you are on a budget I recommend you throw in a well priced 360 or 480 radiator unless you like the idea of a 9x120/140 radiator taking up the entire side of your PC.

 

[oscarbravo]

Hi no that is a CPU block i got 2nd hand.the Dalienware one is self contained system sim to corsair type etc except my pump sits under rad it has a copper block with a fan on top of it. it's a 2007 ish build well that was when it was new.

My way was with rad in roof with fans mounted underneath so pushing out through top and thought about one or two in base of case so cross vent case as the 2 80's front and back don't suppose blow that much?. Adda brand think stock Lian Li one's.
With the 9Xxyz type rad is ive 500mm x500mm panel to play with and with 25mm thick fans as won't need high cfm one's.i doubt be more than 70mmish with grill over it.
Would make a frame to go round it so can make a grill to cover it.
Once worked out max thickness of rad and fans etc then cut a strip of ali to make frame and allow for tabs to fix to side panel either in cut or attach after(flush rivet or bond) and some for grill to fix to. i do have other side panel to use for grill making as have a new one with window to use for the nosey side as once mobo etc is installed theres virtually no reason to open non drive side of case?.
Has this case is sort of 600x600mm it's not something im going to carry under my arm sort of thing so if moving etc it's something you clear the way for.

But as i said just one way i can go it would also give me more head room if i wanted to add GPU's into and as you said ram and most of the other bit's don't need the cooling they used to!.
The reason i looked at the monsta is that it gave good results over most thinner rads so more in between them and a panel rad.

Going back to the 9xwhatevers is that most of the times ive seen things about and for them have been that they stand up right not flat also as a stand alone system(one of the guy's in our gaming clan as one hes using AMD top bulldozer cpu clocked to sizzling speed had over 5ghz plus Hes temps where 20's max)but also if your inlets are at the top like a car rad as heat rise's then takes cooler water from base but in pc one i think it passes down one side to tank the flow's back up over side of core's so like two 360's side by side? so still see how he justifies saying that the 480 would be better even though 480's around twice thickness?.

Re reading post's/stickie's etc this was why i posted this up so get a "ballpark" set up then go through/read things to fine tune and decide on final products.

Because also if it was going with a 9X rad im in process of modding feet of case as the ones onit are those yucky plastic turn out ones so going to make some that work/support case better with rubber pads but if going 9X's way would make in ali box section? that extend out that side so balance case up as don't want it falling flat on it's face! but also if go 480 or even a 360 still could do with better feet as with the PSU and cabling in top half of case that makes it quite top heavy.
the case it's self is full aluminum so light plus will be cooler than a steel and plastic one.

 

[Conumdrum]

(one of the guy's in our gaming clan as one hes using AMD top bulldozer cpu clocked to sizzling speed had over 5ghz plus Hes temps where 20's max)but also if your inlets are at the top like a car rad as heat rise's then takes cooler water from base but in pc one i think it passes down one side to tank the flow's back up over side of core's so like two 360's side by side? so still see how he justifies saying that the 480 would be better even though 480's around twice thickness?.

He's not watercooling, that is impossible and I know that. His room air temps to hit 20C WITH NO LOAD would have to be 10C or less AT IDLE. He keeps his room that low? When gaming I have NEVER seen a CPU that low. EVER. He doen't know what he's talking about or lives in a cold place and has the PC out in the snow, or uses a complicated VERY expensive sub ambient cooling system. Hate to burst your bubble.

Heat doesn't rise. Warm air rises as warmer air due to the energy gained in the molecules weighs less due to the excitment of molecules as the gather heat energy and 'bounce' more. Water is exacly the same. Untill you hit 32F. Then water has a strange physical propery, it weighs less, but that only happens at the freezing point of water. Basic physics. Really basic. Water flow overcomes the very very small issue in labratories doing science in a tank of water. We have FLOW in a WC loop.

That's all I can really help with, your post is sooo hard to read and jumps all over the place. Maybe you can post good pics of your setup and use MS paint or something to demonstrate your ideas. Maybe some more info on the stuff your trying to use would help.

 

[oscarbravo]

I was wrong it's in the 10's not 20's but now gone to latest top end AMD cpu it's going into 30's now.
He's running separate system with 9X fan type rad outside case not in the case so not effected by case temps.

 

[oscarbravo]

Ok then so if i went for the Alphacool Monsta 480 full copper 80mm thick rad would that give me plenty of headroom in cooling if i added a GPU into the loop later when decided on what i liked etc?planning on having fans mounted on one side so pushing through rad.

My other plan/thought was on a panel rad like the 9x phoyba ones which i planned to mount on side panel of case as can't see much need to disturb once pc's up and running and have fans mounted case side so pushing/drawing air from out of case.

I'd say the 480 in roof of case was a bit more practical re moving etc but the case as it is 600mm high makes it more of a planned move than a mid size one.

Ive a 6870 HIS iceQ which has there fancy cooler as stock so would rather leave as is so then can sell complete unless you think worth making WC'd?.