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NeverWinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark Expansion Pack

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#18

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Just got one email from newegg auto notification. The second expansion is finally out.

All the old characters I spent months on are wasted. :) On aventia servers, for after level 20 we could get extra 2HP each level and 1 magical damage each 2 levels. That's why we still worked so hard on getting experience after reach level 20. Now I guess same rule after level 40.

It will take us a while to figure out the best builds. I had one of the best characters in level 20 builds. 59 armor class, 40 attack bonus(48AB after buff, all buff are my own abilities, no item buff). Used a rapier and a tower shield as main weapon, critical hit range 12 ~20. 2d6 sneak attack bonus. Longbow attack bonus 35 without buff. It was a Dex based Paladin. Mostly a paladin(Holy avenge, divine favor, divine might, aid, bless, prayer), a little bit rogue (open lock, disable trap, use magic device, 20 ranks of tumble for extra 4 AC dodge bonus, and sneak attack). You just cannot go anywhere without open lock and disable trap skills on Aventia servers.

You don't see Dex based paladin every day. :) All the paladins you see are wearing heavy armors with a medium or heavy weapon. They are all strength based characters.

I had strength based paladin too, it's just the limitation of strength based. Got max 56AC, 40AB(48after buff). Though strength based can do more damage with each blow. I figured dex based characters can manage to get more armor classes for not getting hit, plus rapier can use dex bonus add to attack bonus with better critical hit range(critical hit double the damage).

Oh well, it's all nonsense to the people who never played Neverwinter Nights. :p
 
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YellowDart

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Location
Mesa, AZ
Try and stick a lvl or 2 of monk in there. I'm not sure if you can go full blown multi-class (3 classes) in NWN or not. If you can add a level of monk, you'll get to add your Wis bonus to your AC. ;)
 
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1

#18

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
YellowDart said:
Try and stick a lvl or 2 of monk in there. I'm not sure if you can go full blown multi-class (3 classes) in NWN or not. If you can add a level of monk, you'll get to add your Wis bonus to your AC. ;)

It's not going to be any good actually. I tried. Monk can add wisdom bonus to armor class. It is true, BUT then again monk cannot use a shield. A +5 class 3 tower shield has a total AC bonus of 8. You just cannot get over that amount of AC bonus from wisdom to make it up.

I had a cleric + monk character. 30 dex and 30 wisdom. I had bonus dex and wis bonus added to AC. I still got 59AC, because I cannot use a shield. If I force myself use a shield, AC actually went down to 57.

It is true when people say "my monk has 58AC without a shield!". Sure, but then again even you carry a shield it won't do you any good.

I know a few monks got a little more AC than 59. Well I just don't like to be a monk :D. Besides use a weapon looks more cool than bare handed. I love longbow too, monk cannot use it well either.
 

YellowDart

Member
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Sep 25, 2003
Location
Mesa, AZ
True... now that I think about it. I'm a little rusty on my D&D rules. ;) I've been thinking of giving my NWN monk Exotic Weapon Proficiency (I think), so he can use a longbow.

I've always been a fan of monks in pen & paper D&D. I've always liked the idea of never being able to truly be disarmed, since a monk's entire body is considered a weapon... :D
 
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#18

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
I was trying to make the best character possible. That is, get both AC and AB as high as they can go. When I use strength based character, I always reach 34 strength(maximun for human). When I use dex based character, I always get 34 dex(maximun for human again). Monk can never get the highest AB(you just cannot have all the same feats to boost your bare handed strike attack bonus the same way as the weapons). I had some friendly duel with other players. Some people also have high AC, but their low AB cannot hit me often. My regular 40AB is enough to hit any high AC character usually. When against some monk with over 60AC+, it may be a little hard to hit them, then I use my divine favor, bless, aid, prayer to boost my AB to 48(all my own abilties, NO item buff, no potion or scroll, or anything other items), there is nothing can against 48AB. It can cut through any kind of possible AC of players.

Not talking about monsters. If you have played on Aventia, they have so many insane monsters. Some monsters probably have over 100AC and 100AB. NO fighter can take them down 1 on 1. Imagine 100AB, it cut through my 59AC like as a level 20 player bully a level 1 player. You know Balor is the most powerful summon creature. On many servers, one Balor can stand ground while against several dragons alone. I tried to call 10 Balor in a row, every one of them lasted 0.5 sec. against those insane monsters. As a demon, Balor was scared lol.

About disarm. It was so funny. I fought against a few players who had "improved disarm" ability. My DC check against improved disarm was useful, but they just kept trying disarm disarm disarm. They always can disarm me at last. I remembered a while ago I was with my strength based paladin, I had to prepare 6 katana for a friendly duel with one player. :D After the duel, my weapons were all over the places on the ground.

It was funny sometimes we had to gather over 10+ players who are all level 20+ to fight one really tough monster.
 

YellowDart

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Location
Mesa, AZ
I haven't played on Aventia before. I've heard stories though... ;) I've got a lvl 20 monk, but I doubt he'd last very long w/ some of the hardcore NWN guys on there. I haven't taken the time to get him higher. I've been using the weapon focus/weapon finesse. He's only got a 32 AC and AB of +26/23/20/17/14. I need to finish the first game, I haven't even started either of the expansions yet! Too many games to play!!! :D
 
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#18

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
In NWN, the way you build your character is very important. There is big difference among the players at the same level. I didn't know it at first.(I thought all level 20 playeres suppose to be pretty even). Until my first character I ever built, a level 20 fighter(pure Fighter class) was beaten by another level 20 player in 3 sec.(tried 4 times). Then I was working on make the best character.

The basic rule for making a good fighter(general fighting character) is to have the highest AC and AB.

Here is how I did it with my Dex based character. There isn't any big secret about it since the expansion is out.

I started 10 base AC. Dex was set to 17. 20 levels allow me to add 5 dex made it 22. Then I used get another 12 Dex bonus from items I wear. Make it 34. 34 dex is the max for a human.(max is the best:)
So 34 dex will give 12 bonus. Make it 22AC. From rogue classes, I added 20 ranks of tumble. It adds 4AC. Now it's 26AC. Hasted = 4AC, make it 30AC. The +5 class 3 tower shield gives me total +8AC. Make it 38AC. The rest items I wear give me +5AC armor, +5AC natural, +5AC deflection, +5AC dodge, total another 20AC. Make it 58AC. Plus I have dodge feat = 1AC. Overall, I have 59AC.

20 levels (16 paladin + 4 rogue) = 19 based AB. 34 dex gives 12 bonus, make it 31AB. Weapon focus +1AB, make it 32AB. My rapier has +5AB and Holy Avenger. Holy Avenger gives paladin +5AB, but they don't really mix together. So the total actual AB from my weapon gives +8AB. That's how I got 40AB based. As a paladin, I have divine favor(each 3 level of paladin get +1AB and +1magical damage to max of 5AB and 5 magical damage), when I caste divine favor I get +5AB. Bless, Aid, prayer give +1AB each. All these 4 paladin's spells last for a short time, but they give me total +8AB which is very useful during the short time fight. Make it total 48AB when I am fully buffed. I can get higher if I use any item buff, but to me in a real duel everyone should only use their own abilities.

Rapier has critical range of 18 ~ 20 itself. Keen make it 15 ~ 20. Improved Critical feat makes it 12 ~ 20. So I can do critical hits very often. Sometimes I can do 5 to 6 citical hits in a row.

My 4 levels of rogue give me 2d6 sneak attack damage bonus.

So you see I got 59AC and 40AB(48 after buff). With a 12 ~ 20 critical hit range, 2d6 sneak attack bonus. I was pround of my super fighting machine :D.

I don't think your monk's 26AB can hit me at all. :D I can stand there all day let you try to hit me :p. Your 32AC is really not enough for a level 20 fighter(fighting character). On all servers, 50+ AC is a must to be a tough character. Not to mention on Aventia even chickens and rats have AB bonus of 40+, they'll cut through your 32AC like tofu.
My first character actually had 32AC and 28AB with a greatsword:). My opponet had 52AC and 34AB. I couldn't hit him at all. His 34AB cut through my 32AC and finished me off in 3 sec. That is the difference. He taught me a good lesson.

I wish I still can find that player I ever dueled with. He wouldn't stand a chance to against my 59AC and 48AB super fighting machine. :D

On another server I played, there are some Half-Fiend guards. I have seen a few times some level 20 players couldn't beat them 1 on 1. While my character could beat 1 at level 10 already.(barely)
Again it's the difference between different ways to build a character.

My builds pretty much reach the limit already. Actually I think it is the limit for humans. Half-Orc can have 36 maximun strength, thus they can have 1 more AB than strength based human's maximun. Half-lin can have maximun 36 Dex, which allows them to have 1 more AC and 1 more AB than Dex based human's maximun.
This game isn't fair for humans on this point. 1 extra AB and 1 extra AC can make the difference between winning and losing in a duel. Gladly not too many Half-Orc and Half-lin players figured out the way to reach their maximun. :)

I don't want to be ugly or short, so I rather to be a human.(human can have extra feat and quick to maste ability, muticlass with no suffer experience penalty to make up, but I don't think these "make up" does matter in duel).

I don't play for duel. Well I believe in duel can show the real ability of characters. If you are really good in pvp duel, certainly you are good in advanture.


Above is all about fighting character. Which AC and AB does most matter. If you are building casters, then it's completely different. I have another level 20 character(19 cleric, 1 monk). I can caste 23 icestorm as my main attack. Maximized icestorm can damage over 150HP each. Rest ones can damage over 100HP. Cleric uses wisdom bonus to memorize the spells. I managed to reach 30 widsom and 30 dex. 1 monk allowed me to get bonus from both add to AC. 59AC is what I got. 30 based AB. 45AB after spell buff. I believe it's a wonderful build too. You don't see any casters have a 59AC normally. Most casters are weak in fighting, though their spells are very powerful. My cleric can fight well too with 45 buffered AB, but most buff wear off really quick. When AB is back down to 30, it is very insufficient to against the insane monsters on Aventia. Well I built my cleric for playing icestorm anyway. On aventia, casters gain 2% extra damage each level after reaching level 20. I saw someone's icestorm did over 600 damage in one hit.

(aventia servers allow all characters gain 2HP each level after level 20, 1 magical damage each 2 levels for fighters. 2% extra damage for casters' attacking spells. That's all. Nothing about abilties, feats, or any skills can be changed after level 20. So don't think about my high AC and AB is due to this rule. It's using the same rule as on all servers for AC, AB, skills, feats, etc.)

Now with the new expansion is out. They offically allow level 40 as max. It will take us a while to figure out the new "maximun" AC and AB and the ways to reach the new maximun. I ordered the expansion already. It should arrive within this week.
 
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1

#18

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
I got it yesterday. Has anyone tried it yet?


I used console command allow me to lvl. Just try to figure out a way make a good build.

I managed to get 71AC and 57AB(65AB after buff). I doubt it's the max. +5 Holy avenage weapon does not act as +8 any more :(

Does anyone know the maximun skills(dex, strength, etc.)? I got my dex to 46.
 

Melhisedek

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Location
Sweden
Hi mates!
Well I have heard much about NWN and I might pick it up (+2 exp)
And as I can see you are talking about MP and that is what interest me the most =)
So how does it work ? Do you play same story as in SP ( BG2 ) or does it work in some other way ?

I'll be saving this thread because of so many builds and help for a Paladin ( mine favorite class )

Thank you for your time!
 
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#18

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Multiplay? There are some stories, but stories aren't that important to me anyway. :) That's the reason I don't play in single game much. The fun is to team up with people go to the unknown areas for advanture.
 
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#18

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Heh, the AC and AB I got earlier was using the old items. With the new items, I got 141AC and 72AB(80AB after buff).

Still not sure if my 46 Dex is the max I can get for a human. I took epic paladin dex feats to 7th. Actually the max I can get is 47, but since the bonus from 47 is the same as 46, so I gave that one point to something else. but, there must be a reason they add 10th limit of epic skill feats. I took it every time I can, but only used up to 7th. Is there anyway I can get it to 10th? Then I will have 50 dex. 2 more AC and 2 more AB for me.
 

Melhisedek

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Location
Sweden
Unknown areas from MP ( new areas ) or is it just as SP ? Could you please explain MP to me ?
I hope I'm not bothering you to much!

Thank you for your time!
 

Surfeit00

Disabled
Joined
Nov 29, 2003
Location
VA
I played the first NWN as a Cleric & it was pretty fun. Have you ever used a cleric #18?
 
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#18

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Melhisedek said:
Unknown areas from MP ( new areas ) or is it just as SP ? Could you please explain MP to me ?
I hope I'm not bothering you to much!

Thank you for your time!

All the servers I've played on use the moduel they created themselves. So all the areas are unknown.





Surfeit00 said:
I played the first NWN as a Cleric & it was pretty fun. Have you ever used a cleric #18?


One of my post above mentioned it :). I had one 19 cleric + 1 monk. 23 icestorm has main attack. 59AC, 30AB(45AB after full buffed from spells).
Cleric has too many spells.
 

Arkaine23

Captain Random Senior Evil
Joined
Nov 8, 2001
Monk can use a shield. But they fixed a bug so no matter what level, your unarmed attacks do only 1-3 damage. It used to be you got full monk damage when using a shield and fighting unarmed. but if you have another fighting class and are dex-based and use a shield, what does it matter? Best thing abouty monks is spell resistence, good saving throws, and immunities to certain attacks, not to mention lots of unarmed attacks per round that do up to 1-20 damage (witout a shield). Oh and you can run away, VERY FAST.

-Arkaine
20 Monk / 1 Sorceror / 3 Red Dragon Disciple
and still rising without cheating (though my character is sort of cheesy)

I guess it depends on the servers, but I hardly ever build specifically for power characters or play on public servers because there are so many munchkins who do just that. I usually focus on a concept or identity for my character and stick with what makes sense for that concept.
 

YellowDart

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Location
Mesa, AZ
#18 said:
Heh, the AC and AB I got earlier was using the old items. With the new items, I got 141AC and 72AB(80AB after buff).

Holy SH**! 141 AC is ridiculous! So for nearly anybody to hit you, they would need to roll inside their crit range. Which in most cases would be btwn a natural roll of 18-20.

In NWN can you take the Improved Critical feat multiple times???
 

YellowDart

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Location
Mesa, AZ
Yea, as a human Paladin, I don't believe they get very good magic resistance. Although that could possibly be remedied through items...
 
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#18

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
I know 141AC is SOOOO high!

That's why I worry about the servers I play on won't allow the new standard items. They think it makes pvp meaningless, because now the gap between AC and AB is almost twice with the new standard items.

Once the AC is around 25 higher than attacker's AB, the attacker will almost have no chance of hit the opponent. Now for myself, my AC is 141, AB is 72(80 after buff with my own spells). Which means if I fight myself, the fight can last 1 year, if the server doesn't reset :). How can 80AB hit 141AC? No chance!

I tested it with a custom Balor I made. It has 100AC and 100AB and 3600HP. I beat it in about 15 min. It couldn't hit me much, 141AC is still too high for 100AB. His 100AC is also a little high for my 80AB. Throughout the 15 min, I don't remember I did a single critical(my critical range is 12 ~ 20). Looks like high AC also can avoid getting critical hit.

There is a new critical hit feats. DC check 40+. If you fail the save, you die from that one hit instantly. Well it's for strength based character. Dexer like me cannot pick this feat. Sweet feat anyway :)
 
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#18

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Monk can use a shield, but it won't do you any good. I tried with my old character, my 59AC went down to 57AC with a shield. So the shield actually lower the AC for someone with full AC like me.(that 19 cleric + 1 monk character I made).

I got a lvl 30 character on aventia too now. Of course no cheating :). How can you cheat on a server anyway?

Was using commands in single game try to figure out a way to make good builds.


Arkaine23 said:
Monk can use a shield. But they fixed a bug so no matter what level, your unarmed attacks do only 1-3 damage. It used to be you got full monk damage when using a shield and fighting unarmed. but if you have another fighting class and are dex-based and use a shield, what does it matter? Best thing abouty monks is spell resistence, good saving throws, and immunities to certain attacks, not to mention lots of unarmed attacks per round that do up to 1-20 damage (witout a shield). Oh and you can run away, VERY FAST.

-Arkaine
20 Monk / 1 Sorceror / 3 Red Dragon Disciple
and still rising without cheating (though my character is sort of cheesy)

I guess it depends on the servers, but I hardly ever build specifically for power characters or play on public servers because there are so many munchkins who do just that. I usually focus on a concept or identity for my character and stick with what makes sense for that concept.