New Build questions

[Droidriven]

I just purchased a Prime Z790-P WiFi D4(DDR4 version to use the DDR4 RAM from my current rig) and will be purchasing i5 12600k to start off with and upgrade to a DDR5 board with a 14th gen processor later and pass this DDR4 version with 12th gen processor down to my nephew as an upgrade to the Asrock Z97 Extreme 4 4790k rig that I built in 2014 and passed to him about 4 years ago after upgrading RAM to 64GB and adding a EVGA GTX 1050ti SSC(as an upgrade to the Gigabyte Z87-D3HP G3258 rig that I gave him before that). He still has and uses both the G3258 and 4790K rigs.

Anyway, I'm looking for suggestions for this Z790 12600k rig I'm currently putting together. All I currently have are the motherboard, RAM and a 650w PSU from another build. I wish I could go balls deep and get a Noctua cooler but I'd rather not spend that much on a cooler. I used a CM hyper 212 on my 4790k rig and never had and still doesn't have temp issues @4.8ghz, would the CM hyper 212 evo V2 be sufficient for this 12600k? I won't be doing any serious overclocking, mild, but not enough to push the envelope.

I was thinking of getting a GTX 2060/2070/2080(probably 2060 to keep cost down, no, I don't need a 30xx 0r 40xx for my gaming), my current i7 7700(non K) rig has a MSI GTX 1650 Ventus 4GB OC that I'm considering passing to my nephew as a slight upgrade to the 1050ti that I gave him previously. I have a Asus ROG Strix RX 570 4GB Gaming that I removed the fans from to clean it but when I put it back together I must have connected the fans wrong or something because when I put it back in the system and powered on, it gave the magic smoke we all dread, took it out and haven't fooled with it since. I'm looking at maybe getting a RX 580 8GB only because I can get it pretty cheap, I have other rigs(of course, I have a closet full of rigs in cases in various stages of assembly/disassembly, lol) here that could stand having a RX 580. I have several cases and PSU's so not looking for suggestions there unless 650w is edging the lower limit of what is required. I can trade a 650w with my nephew to get the EVGA 750w PSU from the 4790k rig that I gave him, that rig doesn't "need" 750w, 550w or 650w would do fine for that rig, unless 750w also wouldn't be enough for this Z790 rig, though I think it probably is.

Any suggestions on m.2 devices? I have a rebranded Samsung 960 256GB nvme x4 from a used system that I picked up that I was considering using for OS and get a WD Black SN850x 1TB as storage for games(maybe another since I have a 3rd m.2 slot to fill?). I have 2 WD Blue 1TB HDDs and a Seagate 1TB SSHD as general storage. Set up in some form of RAID configuration, maybe?

Add anything you guys are thinking.

 

[TerranBrackiatt]

I just purchased a Prime Z790-P WiFi D4(DDR4 version to use the DDR4 RAM from my current rig) and will be purchasing i5 12600k to start off with and upgrade to a DDR5 board with a 14th gen processor later and pass this DDR4 version with 12th gen processor down to my nephew as an upgrade to the Asrock Z97 Extreme 4 4790k rig that I built in 2014 and passed to him about 4 years ago after upgrading RAM to 64GB and adding a EVGA GTX 1050ti SSC(as an upgrade to the Gigabyte Z87-D3HP G3258 rig that I gave him before that). He still has and uses both the G3258 and 4790K rigs.

Anyway, I'm looking for suggestions for this Z790 12600k rig I'm currently putting together. All I currently have are the motherboard, RAM and a 650w PSU from another build. I wish I could go balls deep and get a Noctua cooler but I'd rather not spend that much on a cooler. I used a CM hyper 212 on my 4790k rig and never had and still doesn't have temp issues @4.8ghz, would the CM hyper 212 evo V2 be sufficient for this 12600k? I won't be doing any serious overclocking, mild, but not enough to push the envelope. I was thinking of getting a GTX 2060/2070/2080(probably 2060 to keep cost down, no, I don't need a 30xx 0r 40xx for my gaming), my current i7 7700(non K) rig has a MSI GTX 1650 Ventus 4GB OC that I'm considering passing to my nephew as a slight upgrade to the 1050ti that I gave him previously. I have a Asus ROG Strix RX 570 4GB Gaming that I removed the fans from to clean it but when I put it back together I must have connected the fans wrong or something because when I put it back in the system and powered on, it gave the magic smoke we all dread, took it out and haven't fooled with it since. I'm looking at maybe getting a RX 580 8GB only because I can get it pretty cheap, I have other rigs(of course, I have a closet full of rigs in cases in various stages of assembly/disassembly, lol) here that could stand having a RX 580. Any suggestions on m.2 devices to use for the Z790? I have several cases and PSU's so not looking for suggestions there unless 650w is edging the lower limit of what is required. I can trade a 650w with my nephew to get the EVGA 750w PSU from the 4790k rig that I gave him, that rig doesn't "need" 750w, 550w or 650w would do fine for that rig, unless 750w also wouldn't be enough for this Z790 rig, though I think it probably is.

Add anything you guys are thinking.

first: you should start your own thread, because it's a new topic.

 

[Droidriven]

first: you should start your own thread, because it's a new topic.

Fine, reported and move request submitted. Sorry, this thread was relevant to my topic so I posted here.

 

[TerranBrackiatt]

Fine, reported and move request submitted. Sorry, this thread was relevant to my topic so I posted here.

it's mainly to prevent confusion about which system is being talked about... holding 2 different people with two different main discussions in one thread about 2 different computers can very... very confusing.

anyway... SSDs: you'll be fine with many brands. Samsung is more expensive, but WD Black and Kingston and any SSD reviewed by Overclockers on the main page are better than fine.

you're prolly aware of this: for the RAM you plan on transferring over... is it on the Qualified Vendor List for your new mobo? if not, you may have issues. (stuff seems to be much more sensitive these days than even a decade ago.) if the same brand + series (
as yours) is listed than you should be fine (like G.Skill Ripjaws)

as for GPUs... i'm running a single 2070 super at better than 1440p and running high settings just fine in MMOs and ultra settings in most single player games just fine ( granted i haven't bought anything that came out in the last 5 years , cept a few ports like Horizon Zero Dawn, Control, Final Fantasy 7 remake. ) so at 1080p you'd be totally fine with 20x0... but you might not be turning on RTX for newer titles.

for the PSU, you'll have to rely on others for advice, because i always buy one with much more power than i need , specifically for the better efficiency around the 40-60% load.

and the cooler? i'm thinking that 212 will be fine... because the new CPUs all use auto overclocking firmware (boost clocks), and it's based on temperature headroom. They are actually so good at it, that it's not really worth the effort for manual OCing these days, unless you're going hardcore. Casual OCing is pretty much dead with today's chips. all the experts here will tell you that you'll only get maybe 200 MHz more out of the chip.

 

[Droidriven]

it's mainly to prevent confusion about which system is being talked about... holding 2 different people with two different main discussions in one thread about 2 different computers can very... very confusing.

anyway... SSDs: you'll be fine with many brands. Samsung is more expensive, but WD Black and Kingston and any SSD reviewed by Overclockers on the main page are better than fine.

you're prolly aware of this: for the RAM you plan on transferring over... is it on the Qualified Vendor List for your new mobo? if not, you may have issues. (stuff seems to be much more sensitive these days than even a decade ago.) if the same brand + series (
as yours) is listed than you should be fine (like G.Skill Ripjaws)

as for GPUs... i'm running a single 2070 super at better than 1440p and running high settings just fine in MMOs and ultra settings in most single player games just fine ( granted i haven't bought anything that came out in the last 5 years , cept a few ports like Horizon Zero Dawn, Control, Final Fantasy 7 remake. ) so at 1080p you'd be totally fine with 20x0... but you might not be turning on RTX for newer titles.

for the PSU, you'll have to rely on others for advice, because i always buy one with much more power than i need , specifically for the better efficiency around the 40-60% load.

and the cooler? i'm thinking that 212 will be fine... because the new CPUs all use auto overclocking firmware (boost clocks), and it's based on temperature headroom. They are actually so good at it, that it's not really worth the effort for manual OCing these days, unless you're going hardcore. Casual OCing is pretty much dead with today's chips. all the experts here will tell you that you'll only get maybe 200 MHz more out of the chip.

I always use PCPartpicker's build calculator with the compatibility filter on. I have 32GB(2x16) G Skill Ripjaws V RAM as a matter of fact, lol. The only flag I got was potential clearance issues depending on the cooler. I figured the 212 evo V2 would be sufficient, just making sure as I haven't put a rig together with today's hardware. The only non OEM cooler I currently have is an old Zalman 9500A from an old Asus P5Q Pro that I did the 775-771 mod on some years ago, lol, I KNOW that won't be sufficient even if I did make it fit LGA1700.

The games you listed are what I currently play along with Forbidden West/Blazing Shores(1650 won't do ultra or high settings without a big drop in FPS, it may have more to do with the 7700 than the 1650) and the Uncharted series and occasionally I go back to some of the Tomb Raider titles. I have a HP 27Q 2560x1440 monitor(60hz, unfortunately), an older Samsung 27 inch curve, an old Lenovo 27 inch Thinkvision monitor and a 55 inch TV. From what you are saying, I think the 2060 should do what I want/need.

PCPartpicker's build calculator shows that it will require 518 watts if I use the Samsung 960 that I have with 2 WD SN850X 1TB and the 2 1TB HDDs that I have and add an additional 32GB(2x16) of RAM. I can drop one of the 850Xs, 1 of the HDDs and 2 sticks of RAM and it drops to 459 watts. Is 200 watts enough headroom?

 

[Woomack]

Later this year will be released a new Intel generation, so you probably move to the new CPU+motherboard with your build once you pass the "current new" to your nephew.

I consider 32GB a minimum for any build right now. Even on an office laptop, I often reach 16GB. The speed doesn't matter so much, as long as it's at least 6000 and tighter timings like CL32. It is better if you get the fastest at reasonable money (often 6000, 6400, and 7000 kits cost almost as much), as when you start your next new build, memory controllers may take advantage of 7000+ RAM. Right now, it's scaling up to about 7000 and above that, you can barely see any performance gain in daily tasks or games.

Power draw is usually peak in theory. Look mainly at the CPU and GPU. Intel i5 CPUs are ~150W max, and mid-shelf Nvidia like RTX 2060/3060/4060 is about ~200W. 550W is fine for that as SSDs/HDDs don't use much, and everything else in total can be about ~25-50W max. Recommended would be 650W 80+ Gold from any well-known brand.

From SSDs, get anything from the new series with TLC NAND and PCIe 4.0 x4. Almost everything rated at 7000MB/s+ is good, so it's hard to make a mistake. Don't take QLC SSDs for the OS/main gaming drive. QLCs are good for (not so often) backups, additional storage, and less demanding computers with fewer writes per day.

Regarding graphics cards, if you already have one or can get a cheap RTX 2060/70/80, then why not? If you want a new card, then I recommend RTX4060/Ti 16GB or higher. This is because the RTX 4000 is much more efficient than previous generations, runs cooler, and performs much better. The only problem is the price, as the recommended right now would be RTX4070 Super, and it's not cheap. Many new games, even at 1080p, can use a lot of memory, so getting a new card that has 8GB is also not the best idea.
I know your games are not so demanding, but I assume you want to buy something and keep it for longer.

 

[EarthDog]

I agree with what these guys shared.

specifically for the better efficiency around the 40-60% load.

If you're running your psu at 40% capacity, chances are you've spent too much on your psu. PSUs efficiency is quite flat between the 80-plus tiers. The MAX difference between 20-100% load is 3%. If you notice that in your bill, I'd be shocked... and wouldn't expect it to make up for buying a 1KW PSU instead of an more appropriately sized 650/750W model.

About the only reason I'd buy a psu and run it at 50% capacity is for noise (fans may not even kick on), but psus are incredibly quiet.

Edit: I happily run a 13900k and 4090 on a 850W psu. Load is just above 60% in gaming.

Also, when using a monster psu and you're just screwing around on the desktop (email, web browsing, watching YT, etc) using 100W, you're going to be well out of the efficiency range which starts at 20% (10% for titanium).

 

[Droidriven]

Later this year will be released a new Intel generation, so you probably move to the new CPU+motherboard with your build once you pass the "current new" to your nephew.

I consider 32GB a minimum for any build right now. Even on an office laptop, I often reach 16GB. The speed doesn't matter so much, as long as it's at least 6000 and tighter timings like CL32. It is better if you get the fastest at reasonable money (often 6000, 6400, and 7000 kits cost almost as much), as when you start your next new build, memory controllers may take advantage of 7000+ RAM. Right now, it's scaling up to about 7000 and above that, you can barely see any performance gain in daily tasks or games.

Power draw is usually peak in theory. Look mainly at the CPU and GPU. Intel i5 CPUs are ~150W max, and mid-shelf Nvidia like RTX 2060/3060/4060 is about ~200W. 550W is fine for that as SSDs/HDDs don't use much, and everything else in total can be about ~25-50W max. Recommended would be 650W 80+ Gold from any well-known brand.

From SSDs, get anything from the new series with TLC NAND and PCIe 4.0 x4. Almost everything rated at 7000MB/s+ is good, so it's hard to make a mistake. Don't take QLC SSDs for the OS/main gaming drive. QLCs are good for (not so often) backups, additional storage, and less demanding computers with fewer writes per day.

Regarding graphics cards, if you already have one or can get a cheap RTX 2060/70/80, then why not? If you want a new card, then I recommend RTX4060/Ti 16GB or higher. This is because the RTX 4000 is much more efficient than previous generations, runs cooler, and performs much better. The only problem is the price, as the recommended right now would be RTX4070 Super, and it's not cheap. Many new games, even at 1080p, can use a lot of memory, so getting a new card that has 8GB is also not the best idea.
I know your games are not so demanding, but I assume you want to buy something and keep it for longer.

The only gold+ PSU's that I have is are Ultra 650 and Ultra 550 from some rigs I picked up for free, both non modular and neither have the 8+2 pin 12v for the CPU nor 8 pin for graphics card and I'm not familiar with Ultra so I don't know if I trust I have a semi modular Antec 550w and some extra cables that I can use for power to CPU and GPU. The EVGA 750w that I can get back from my nephew is semi modular also, if I need to trade one of these 650w with him, I can do that.

Yeah, I'd rather put at least 64GB RAM in it, more than likely will, no need to go the full 128GB.

I'm not too concerned with longevity on this build, as you say, I'll be upgrading to a DDR5 board with a 14th gen+ CPU in 1-1/2 years anyway. And this build will be a decent upgrade for my nephew when I pass it down to him when I build the DDR5 14th gen+ rig in the next year or so. The next rig is the one I will be so-called "futureproofing" to use for a while.

 

[Woomack]

The only gold+ PSU's that I have is are Ultra 650 and Ultra 550 from some rigs I picked up for free, both non modular and neither have the 8+2 pin 12v for the CPU nor 8 pin for graphics card and I'm not familiar with Ultra so I don't know if I trust I have a semi modular Antec 550w and some extra cables that I can use for power to CPU and GPU. The EVGA 750w that I can get back from my nephew is semi modular also, if I need to trade one of these 650w with him, I can do that.

Yeah, I'd rather put at least 64GB RAM in it, more than likely will, no need to go the full 128GB.

I'm not too concerned with longevity on this build, as you say, I'll be upgrading to a DDR5 board with a 14th gen+ CPU in 1-1/2 years anyway. And this build will be a decent upgrade for my nephew when I pass it down to him when I build the DDR5 14th gen+ rig in the next year or so. The next rig is the one I will be so-called "futureproofing" to use for a while.

I wouldn't use any PSU that has ~10 years for a new build. If you invest in new components, then get a new PSU too.

48GB seems like a good option for gaming PCs. I said 32GB as a minimum, but with DDR5, it's actually a minimum (16GB DDR5 kits are only in some low-frequency budget series). I have 64GB only because it was a review sample, but I use up to ~34GB of RAM.

I'm not futureproofing, as everything changes so fast that any upgrades after a couple of years seem pointless. My gaming PC is usually based on mid-shelf components, but it is still above average, and I try to keep a lower wattage for lower heat and quiet work.
The main problem with upgrades is that CPUs don't have to be upgraded often, but all other things are changing, so in 2-3 years, you may wish for some features available on new motherboards or things that do not necessarily improve the performance but add something else like new devices support. One example is Z690 motherboards - overpriced, with new features, but nothing really working as expected, and some things working in theory as there were no devices to test them. I mean DDR5, PCIe 5.0 SSD, USB 4, early WiFi 6/6E cards, and some more. Those who bought them as future-proof wanted to replace them a year later, but they invested a lot of money, and it's weird to sell them for half-price and buy another overpriced motherboard.

Right now, AMD, Intel, and Nvidia are at the end of their current generation. At the end of this year or at the beginning of the next one, there will be new CPUs (those probably earlier), new motherboards/chipsets, and new graphics cards. Buying high-end stuff right now is a waste of money and will not give you any chance of upgrading.
There is only a short period in every generation when buying hardware is a good idea. We always lose just after the premiere - when we jump onto early products with design flaws, problems with firmware, or other things, or after over a year since the premiere, when manufacturers already focus on the new-gen hardware and new features are meant to appear in the future products (like the period we have now). At least looking at the overclockers and enthusiasts, I feel these ~8-9 months in the middle of every generation give people the most fun and confidence they made a good choice spending their money.

 

[Droidriven]

I wouldn't use any PSU that has ~10 years for a new build. If you invest in new components, then get a new PSU too.

48GB seems like a good option for gaming PCs. I said 32GB as a minimum, but with DDR5, it's actually a minimum (16GB DDR5 kits are only in some low-frequency budget series). I have 64GB only because it was a review sample, but I use up to ~34GB of RAM.

I'm not futureproofing, as everything changes so fast that any upgrades after a couple of years seem pointless. My gaming PC is usually based on mid-shelf components, but it is still above average, and I try to keep a lower wattage for lower heat and quiet work.
The main problem with upgrades is that CPUs don't have to be upgraded often, but all other things are changing, so in 2-3 years, you may wish for some features available on new motherboards or things that do not necessarily improve the performance but add something else like new devices support. One example is Z690 motherboards - overpriced, with new features, but nothing really working as expected, and some things working in theory as there were no devices to test them. I mean DDR5, PCIe 5.0 SSD, USB 4, early WiFi 6/6E cards, and some more. Those who bought them as future-proof wanted to replace them a year later, but they invested a lot of money, and it's weird to sell them for half-price and buy another overpriced motherboard.

Right now, AMD, Intel, and Nvidia are at the end of their current generation. At the end of this year or at the beginning of the next one, there will be new CPUs (those probably earlier), new motherboards/chipsets, and new graphics cards. Buying high-end stuff right now is a waste of money and will not give you any chance of upgrading.
There is only a short period in every generation when buying hardware is a good idea. We always lose just after the premiere - when we jump onto early products with design flaws, problems with firmware, or other things, or after over a year since the premiere, when manufacturers already focus on the new-gen hardware and new features are meant to appear in the future products (like the period we have now). At least looking at the overclockers and enthusiasts, I feel these ~8-9 months in the middle of every generation give people the most fun and confidence they made a good choice spending their money.

The semi modular Antec 550 that I have is 80+ gold and I bought new and was only ever used in a system and powered on maybe a dozen times, literally, maybe less than that and was never powered on for more than a couple of hours each time, less than 30 total hours probably and has been in the closet in an empty Rosewill case since then.

48GB DDR4 total is what I have but only 2 of them are a paired set of 2x16 GSkil that I'm going to use in this system, I was going to add a another stick or two in a month or two. The goal at the moment is to get enough of the parts together as soon as possible to get it going and start using it then add/replace components over the next few weeks or couple of months.

I'm using what I can of what I already have to put it together as soon as possible and only purchasing what is absolutely necessary to support the motherboard and socket series then adding the parts to make it "nice" as I go. $100-200 here, $100-200 there, etc At the moment, I'm basically just buying motherboard, CPU+cooler and a m.2 1TB nvme then using one of the nany cases I already have, using one of the PSUs that I already have and know is stable, the 2x16GB DDR4 that I have the storage devices that I have and the GPU that I have. That will get the system together and going and then I'll buy a new 650-750w PSU a week or two after first power on then a week or two later I'll buy the 2060, then a week or two later I'll buy 1 or 2 sticks of 16GB GSkill DDR4 to add to it, then naybe another 1TB nvme a week two after that, etc.. Trust me, I won't stop until I'm satisfied with it, I'll probably end up maxing out the board or as near as i can get without sinking a bank in it before it's over with, lol. 64-128GB of RAM, 2 GPUs, 3 m.2 ssd 1-2 TB each and an unlocked i5/i7/i9. By the time I'm done tinkering and improving it, I'll be ready to start a DDR5 rig with all new parts and pass this one to the nephew and keep the chain going.

Maybe I'll wait for the new (non-i) core 5/7/9 nomenclature next gen CPUs are released and mature on the market before I do the DDR5 rig.