New HSF king?

[taz1004]

Overclockers Cafe has a review of Dragon Orb and looks like it kicks major a$$. It may still fall behind the Swiftech MC-462 but it did beat its little brother MC-370 and Thermoengine w/Delta. I would like to see more reviews from other web site too but at least, you can get an idea.

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www.overclockercafe.com

--BrianC

 

[Bender]

Wow. Any Idea where I can pick one up?

 

[UnseenMenace]

I think it will take the Orb a long while before it looses it CPU chipping and poor cooling reputation.. I think I will wait till I see more factual and less jovial reviews till I make comments on this one

 

[Hoot]

First off, when you are evaluating an HSF, you are interested in the HSFs performance, not the testers case ventilation, since that can vary wildly from one person to another. That, having been said I like the looks of this HSF. The copper core is a definite plus. In keeping with the scientific process, I think it is unfair to test it against all aluminum HSFs. I'd like to see it tested against other copper HSFs, like the CAK-38, SK-6, Glaciator, etc. Here's why:

The Dragon Orb was tested using a Tbird running at 70W, which yielded a resultant CPU temp of 51.66C

Joe Citarella tested the Glaciator on a Tbird running 83W, which yielded a resultant CPU temp of 33.9C

I question the methodology of the Dragon Orb tests. I would like to see Joe test it, using his "tried-and-true", scientifically correct, setup.

If Joe is busy and some reseller wants to send me one, I will test it using a similar setup and procedure that Joe uses.

Hoot

 

[Hoot]

I almost forgot to be fair about my previous reply. Joe tested the Glaciator at an ambient temp of 23C, whereas the Dragon Orb was tested at 27C. So if you add 4C to Joe's result for the Glaciator, it would be 37.9C. Still quite a bit better than 51.66C of the Dragon Orb, especially considering the Glaciator was used on a CPU dissipating 20% more wattage! A good testimony to why it is better to list the differential temp, not the resultant temp. For the uninitiated, differential temp is the amount of increase above ambient temp, that the CPU runs at.

Hoot

 

[krakerman]

oh my god. please, nobody buy a dragon orb. you can tell it sucks... its an orb for crying out loud. a design that hasn't worked for years, yet thermaltake is too stupid to change their design to something usefull. granted they do make money by selling the orbs to people who just dont know better, i would personally feel dirty if i bought an orb.

 

[taz1004]

"Joe tested the Glaciator at an ambient temp of 23C, whereas the Dragon Orb was tested at 27C. So if you add 4C to Joe's result for the Glaciator, it would be 37.9C. Still quite a bit better than 51.66C of the Dragon Orb, especially considering the Glaciator was used on a CPU dissipating 20% more wattage!"

You shouldn't cross compare results between different reviews in any case. They could've used different motherboard, different method to load the CPU, different power supply, different thermal compound and different method of application... you can't just add difference in ambient temperature and compare the temperature in my opinion. Only the comparison within the same review is valid.

I know there are a lot of skeptics out there and yes it is wise to wait for more reviews but I don't think any hardware reviewer is gonna risk their reputation to put out biased results on purpose to promote a product like a heatsink. It's just not worth it. They did tell us the condition these products were tested under and Dragon Orb did beat the other two top candidates under those conditions. It may not be the most scientific test in the world but I doubt the result will be significantly different on other reviews. Most heatsink roundups from different web sites has been pretty consistant so far. We'll see.

You mentioned copper vs aluminum but I think HardOCP had valid point regarding this issue. Copper conducts heat faster than aluminum but also dissipates heat slower than aluminum. So you might get better results with copper in these reviews when the heatsink is tested for about an hour but when the heatsinks are used in longer period of time in people's machines, aluminum still provides more consistant and stable cooling. When room temperature rise, copper heatsink will heat up faster than aluminum. But when the room temperature drops, copper will cool down slower than aluminum as well. This is one of the reason why we begin to see aluminum heatsink with copper cores.

--BrianC

 

[Hoot]

Admittedly, copper, being more dense than aluminum, stores heat more effectively. As the cross-sectional area of the radiator get smaller, the density is not as big a factor. That is why we are seing excellent performance reports from HSFs like the CAK-38 and SK-6. The radiating fins are very thin and the don't store heat like a thicker piece of copper does. This is one of the main reasons the Hedgehog does not work as good as you would expect. It uses pins, not fins. Pins have good surface area like fins, but their cross-sectional area is much higher compared to their surface area. That is also why Swiftech uses aluminum pins in their MC-462.
I am certain the Dragon Orb will be included in other reviews and shoot-outs as time goes by. The ones where the base is drilled for a thermocouple or use a thermistor butted up against the core, will no doubt show a much lower resultant temperature than the test conducted by overclockercafe.
There are several threads going over in the cooling section about this HSF. There are a lot of "anti-Orb" naysayers, but I don't think they read the overclockercafe article closely and enlarged the accompanying pictures for close inspection. This HSF is not like the other Orbs, which I also, am not impressed with. It really does have potential.

Hoot

 

[Megahurtz]

taz, a quick look at the front page should remove any doubts about the efficacy of the 'Dragon Orb'.

It looks more of a rook, than a king.

http://www.overclockers.com/articles427/

T

 

[taz1004]

Maybe some of you can explain this but I have always questioned few heatsinks on Joe's roundup. For example, Millenium Glaciator is good heatsink but same C/W as Swiftech 462 even with 29cfm fan against Delta on Swiftech? Also, Swiftech 370 has the worst C/W in his C/W Ratings table when all other reviews I've seen ranked this heatsink among the best under $60 category. Even his own review says it's one of the best yet it has highest C/W of 0.32. Maybe I'm not understanding his method or something. Can someone explain this?

His reviews are informative and I take it for what it is but I believe real world performance is different from calculations. I'll be waiting for more comparison reviews that are performed under same situations.

--BrianC

 

[Rob Cork]

The problem is you have to consider the time frame over which the reviews were written. The [url ="http://www.overclockers.com/articles294/"]Swiftech MC370[/url] review that I assume you refer to was written towards the end of last year, before the release of hsf's such as the MC462, thermoengine, Millenium Glaciator etc. - so when he wrote it, the MC370 probably was one of the best. As for the MC462/Glaciator comparison, the [url ="http://www.overclockers.com/articles347/index02.asp"]MC462[/url] gives a C/W of 0.2 with a quiter 33cfm fan, whereas the [url ="http://www.overclockers.com/articles425/"]Glaciator[/url] gives under 0.18 with a 26cfm at identical noise levels. The MC462 review calls it the best hsf, but it's dated 5/16/01 - the Glaciator review is dated 5/31/01.

I agree that this approach is confusing, and the only way to avoid it would be with a periodic roundup of hsfs. However, as long as you look for the most recent review stating 'this hsf is King', you should be safe.

 

[Ferg]

The truth is that you really cant compare different heatsink tests because no matter how many factors you look at there is always something else. The most scientific thing to do is look at hsf roundups. We will have to wait and see how the Dragon Orb 3 does in one of those. I suspect it will be right with the other orbs which arent very good.