New Server build / Home business

[RoadieWarrior]

EARTHDOG,
thanks for the help with the build! so taking the advice, but stretching it a bit more...
AMD RYZEN 7 3700X or AMD RYZEN 7 3800
ASRock B550 PRO4 (i believe this was the cheapest B550 MB in stock)
G.SKILL Aegis 32GB (4 x 8GB) or G.SKILL Aegis 32GB (2 x 16GB), i still don't know which is better. the board has 4 spots, i didn't see "quad" support either.
DON,
SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS M.2 2280 250GB PCIe Gen 3.0 x4, NVMe 1.3
i believe this would be the cheapest m.2 NVMe. i just stuck with the Samsung because i plan on getting all Samsung SSD's. that might be an OCD thing, not sure!

so, now, this build would be about what the suggestions were. a little bit more than what Earthdog put down, but a little less than Tír na nÓg suggested.

nobody mentioned the PSU. am i on the right track for that?
as for a GPU, i was planning on a ~$50 card, MSI low profile, or something like that. does anyone have a suggestion on something so low end?

EDIT:
well, i guess this would be a better SSD, and it's cheaper...lol
SK hynix Gold S31 500GB 3D NAND 2.5 inch SATA III Internal SSD
and if i'm not going all Samsung... i'll stick with what the internet says about M.2 and go Blue...
Western Digital Blue SN550 NVMe M.2 2280 500GB

 

[EarthDog]

Potato = poor quality, slow... etc.

Quad channel RAM is just don't feel is needed . I don't see this, as described so far, a bandwidth heavy operation that quad channel would be beneficial. It's going to come down to the CPU and disks and the bottleneck the network. So while its nice, its likely overkill. Akin to attaching a fire hose to a house spicket.

As far as the parts... That PSU is great. Seasonic Focus is a great PSU.

3700X should work well.
For the B550 chipset, you'll want 2x16GB. For safety, pick something found on the motherboard QVL list. I like GSkill Trident Z Neo. Find a 2x16GB 3200 kit. I would say go 3600, but I worry about 32GB and 'set it and forget it' stability at those speeds on that platform. 3200 and 32GB should work out of the box (set XMP/DOCP) with approved sticks and the latest BIOS.

The storage isn't going to matter too much. You're just dumping an OS on it, so honestly, if you want NVMe get a small 256GB drive. The difference on paper is a lot (specs wise) but real world is little. On the data side, I'd go standard SSD and setup the RAID for your needs. As mentioned, I doubt you'll need striping, just parity... but you can have both!

I'm not going to lie... I like the Intel build a bit more because their CPUs (sans the KF models) have an integrated GPU on them. With this you add redundancy. If the GPU craps out, you swap to the iGPU and move along. So if uptime is that concerning, that is another level of redundancy.

On the motherboard, you may want to find one with dual NICs or at least good Wi-Fi (Wi-Fi 6 AX201) also as a backup if there is only one NIC. Intel Z490 boards typically have dual NICs as do AMD X570 (which would fit your current CPU selection, though costing more.

But it really all depends on what you need. Do you have a store with a NIC/Video card drievable? Maybe it isn't needed... something to think about.

Is there any chance this software is currently up and running on something? Maybe try and install it on whatever you are working on and see how that works serving a client or two (have dad log in, you log in and beat on it... and see how it stresses your current system (check RAM use before and during, CPU use... etc). But really, from what we know, I don't think it would take much at all to serve this stuff to a few users.

 

[don256us]

I was just at Alamode's web site looking over what they offer. Their "Total" package offers cloud based form filling app called "Titan Drive" as part of the package. Seems to me that the server might do much less than I was thinking.

I would put *all* of this on hold for a moment and talk to your client and Alamode sales to ensure that you are providing the best package for your client. It could be that the server only aggregates data requests to the cloud application.

https://www.alamode.com/

Haha. I see that Alamode got away from Apex for the sketching portion of the software. Even the appraiser's at my current place of work use Apex for sketching. It's the industry standard. Good for Alamode.

 

[RoadieWarrior]

oh, dad does not want to go Cloud. i was telling him, he can have his own Cloud, at least i believe he can.
ok, i'll do another build up, but with intel, because like you said, i do like integrated graphics. what was nice about the server MB's is there was a VGA out to install the programs and be done with it. obviously once this is set up and running, there won't be a monitor or keyboard hooked up to it.

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

Intel Core i7-10700 Comet Lake 8-Core 2.9 GHz
looks like a sale going on. i have 7 hours to decide! lol!
before i get too far into searching for a MB, i need to mention, the program wants each computer to be hard wired in. so, is there a "better" hub to use? i'm sure he has something off the shelf or some junk somebody "sold" him on. again, 5 ish computers so the router / hub / what ever doesn't need to be huge.

 

[RoadieWarrior]

ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming 4S AM4 AMD X570 SATA 6Gb/s ATX AMD Motherboard
or
ASRock X570 PHANTOM GAMING 4 AM4 AMD X570 SATA 6Gb/s ATX AMD Motherboard
seriously, i can't find the difference! both of these are the same price point as the B550 that was suggested.

this may be dumb, but would there be a way to plug all the other computers directly into this "server" and not use a "hub"? like some kind of NIC card that has 6 or so ports? would that even be a good idea?

holy smokes...could this be it.... an internal Ethernet card that other computers can plug directly into and skip a "hub"?
PCI-e Express x4 Network Server Adapter i350-T4 NIC 4 Ports 1000M Gigabit Ethernet 1Gb
would that be "faster" than a hub? i would need 2 of those cards though. i guess another think to make sure the MB supports!

 

[don256us]

Mmmmmm.... I think that you are over thinking it. If you have a simple 8-port gigabit switch, you would have the bandwidth needed with less complexity. Doing someting 1-off makes it hard to recall a year later when it develops a simple glitch. I also don't see that a 1-off like that buys you any speed. Use the KIS priciple or KISS in my case. (Keep It Simple Stupid). Remember, you're building it not just for today but for ten years later when he needs another update or a week from now if something doesn't want to cooperate.

Using a multi-port NIC still requires that each PC have DHCP and DNS to work inside and outside the office. A simple router can be a solid foundation and a simple item to replace should it fail. Age, wonky power, etc. could make your life hell in a hurry if you build his network as such.

 

[RoadieWarrior]

Mmmmmm.... I think that you are over thinking it. If you have a simple 8-port gigabit switch, you would have the bandwidth needed with less complexity. Doing someting 1-off makes it hard to recall a year later when it develops a simple glitch. I also don't see that a 1-off like that buys you any speed. Use the KIS priciple or KISS in my case. (Keep It Simple Stupid). Remember, you're building it not just for today but for ten years later when he needs another update or a week from now if something doesn't want to cooperate.

Using a multi-port NIC still requires that each PC have DHCP and DNS to work inside and outside the office. A simple router can be a solid foundation and a simple item to replace should it fail. Age, wonky power, etc. could make your life hell in a hurry if you build his network as such.

gotcha. good call!
so, back to an external device, i take it then, they pretty much are all the same? nothing really "better" than anything else?

 

[RoadieWarrior]

ok, i think i have (at least) an AMD build

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 3700X 8-Core 3.6 GHz $280
MB: ASUS AM4 TUF GAMING X570-Plus $165
G.SKILL Trident Z Neo (For AMD Ryzen) Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 / F4-3200C16D-32GTZN
SSD: SK hynix Gold S31 500GB 3D NAND 2.5 inch SATA III Internal SSD $61 ($128)
M.2: Western Digital Blue SN550 NVMe M.2 2280 250GB PCI-Express 3.0 x4 3D NAND WDS500G2B0C $55
PSU: Seasonic FOCUS PX-550 $120
COOLER: Enermax LIQTECH II 360 $114
GPX: ASUS NVIDIA GeForce GT 710 $58
CASE: Fractal Design Define 7 Compact $100
TOTAL ~$1200 (shipping?) / BUDGET $3000

my notes / thoughts
cpu / was suggested
mb / google - reviews - i know pairs well with g.skill. i really would like a board that would excel in Ethernet speeds. but they all seem to be the same.
ram / suggested
ssd / google / reviews / price
m.2 / google / reviews / price
psu / google / reviews / price / recommended.
cooler / looks cool. didn't want a huge heat sink that collects dust. something different.
gpx / need something super basic, BUT can support 4 separate monitors. cheap literately selected "multi-monitor support", checked 4, selected "cheapest". lol
case / google / reviews / looks cool / matches other rig.

were there any other parts that i should need? if the supplied cables are too long or short or what ever, i'll just order those after the fact. to me, this appears to be a good middle-ish build, but is over built for it's application. i have a sneaky suspicion once i tell my dad, his current computer would work very well as the "server", he may take this one! or maybe just have me build another. lol. what do you guys think about the MB? i've built an ASUS before, but my last build was Asrock. was very satisfied with both builds. gpx card? meh?

 

[EarthDog]

mb / google - reviews - i know pairs well with g.skill. i really would like a board that would excel in Ethernet speeds. but they all seem to be the same.

That is one of the least expensive B550 boards around...it will work...but isn't the greatest.

B550 boards come with a single 2.5 GbE connection. If you need more, get a 10G PCIe network card. Still, your people using this hard wired are likely all 1G connections as is the router/switch. Again I'll take a guess and say this likely won't saturate the network... but do give it a try and see. Worst case is you need to upgrade the network side of things.

That GT710 is old... not sure if it is UEFI capable/will work with the board.

 

[RoadieWarrior]

That is one of the least expensive B550 boards around...it will work...but isn't the greatest.
That GT710 is old... not sure if it is UEFI capable/will work with the board.

it was suggested to go with the X570. so i have a link to the ASUS one.
so, off hand is there a 4 monitor support that's cheap that would work with the ASUS board?

my initial thought was this one, but i "liked" the ASUS because it was 4 hdmi...
EVGA GeForce GT 710
or a little bit more...
MSI Radeon RX 570
when it comes to the GPX, i'm really at the mercy of the court. i know they are old, but just for simple graphics, that's all that i would need. it is only the multi-monitor support that's important. i think he would like 4 monitors, but 3 is kind of working. it's something about all the different documents you need up at one time and switching back and forth gets to be a hassle. he did say he had all new monitors that used hdmi, so if it comes down to spending a little bit more money, i guess i'll have to do it.

responding to the monitors...
lol. no, but i think he will take this one, so if i can find a cheap gpx that will work with 4 monitors, he may use it. i just build (well, 5 years old) a current rig and according to you guys, will run everything just fine.

 

[EarthDog]

Oops... I see X570 there... my bad. It's one of the cheapest X570 boards..it will work... but isn't the greatest.

Earlier this was going to potentially be headless, right?

obviously once this is set up and running, there won't be a monitor or keyboard hooked up to it.

You need four monitors attached to this box now? Does this change the use of the box?

EDIT: Just noticed 32GB @ 3600 Mhz... as I said earlier, that may not be a set it and forget it. You may need to tweak some voltages to get that to work. With that in mind, it is also more critical that the kit you chose is on that motherboard's QVL list. A random GSkill kit won't work because it's GSkill. I'd step back to 3200 MHz so it is more set it and forget it. I don't feel this build needs to be on the bleeding edge of stability, in particular without someone who is capable around to support the box if it goes down.

 

[RoadieWarrior]

Oops... I see X570 there... my bad. It's one of the cheapest X570 boards..it will work... but isn't the greatest.

so do you suggest a different ASUS that has a better build quality, or a different manufacture?

 

[EarthDog]

Please see the full post. I ninja edited.

The board will be fine, I'm just surprised (with the budget and needs you have) that you picked one of the least expensive is all.


EDIT: That board doesn't have Wi-Fi and single ethernet port (Gigabit - B550's have 2.5 GbE more through that lineup). You don't have any redundancy on the network side of things.

 

[Tír na nÓg]

Mmm...

 

[EarthDog]

Mmm...

??????????

 

[RoadieWarrior]

ok, the 3600 ram was a goof!

well, lets pick a better board then. i'm honestly guessing.
i changed the link to the ram. my shopping cart had the 3200, i really don't know what i did there.

 

[don256us]

Based on the amount of total storage he is looking to install, I would say that this application will *not* be bandwidth intensive. I'm sure that the office was happy with the 100 MB connection that they had for the last 10 years. Alamode is a Real Estate appraisal software with very few moving parts. The forms ask for the year built, the square footage, # of rooms, # of floors. I mean, text data that is stored in a database for future use as a comparable. The largest data hog will be still photos of the exterior and some of the interior. If I recall correctly, each property might have as few a 6 photos attached to the report. I really don't see any need to go crazy with speed. a simple gigabit connection throughout the office is already probably more than they ever had.

Also Note, Alamode is built for small shops of real estate appraisers. Everything is built with a non-tech customer base in mind. Most appraisal shops are 1-man operations or mom and pop setups. So above all, lets think more simply. This will not ber a thin net type setup. It will be a simple client/server with simple modem/router/switch needs.

The main emphasis will be on realiability more than speed or storage size.

With that in mind, would any of you change your recommendations? From the stand point of repairability, I like to see common parts in use. AMD socket 4 is a great idea as you can easily get by with a cheap CPU today and upgrade later if needed. The MBs that you all suggested to use are all 2-channel which I agree is fine. I would recomend that you only fill two of the four slots availible with 2x16GB so that you have room to increase the RAM later if needed in five years or something. I also would really enphasise the need for at least a RAID 5 on the data storage so that the data can survive the loss of at least one drive at a time. That said, if the MB or RAID controller goes down, all data could be lost. Something like Unraid would be really nice in this case but I will stop short of explaining for the sake of keeping this conversation simple.

 

[RoadieWarrior]

I also would really enphasise the need for at least a RAID 5 on the data storage so that the data can survive the loss of at least one drive at a time. That said, if the MB or RAID controller goes down, all data could be lost. Something like Unraid would be really nice in this case but I will stop short of explaining for the sake of keeping this conversation simple.

that's the plan! i have 4 SSD's that i am going to put into Raid 5, maybe Raid 10 (if i can wrap my brain around how to do it and the difference between the two). i don't really understand the "controller" part, but it looks like a MB will either have a built in one, or i buy a physical one.

 

[trents]

With a consumer level motherboard, your RAID options will be limited. Many will only offer RAID 0 and RAID 1. So if you want more RAID sophistication than that you are looking at an add on controller that fits into a PCIe slot. It just sounds like to me you are making this project a lot more complicated than it needs to be. You might be better to look at a simple backup storage device that holds the system drive images. Images can be used to quickly rebuild the system drive from backup. Images are just a snap shot of the entire system hard drive. Products like Macrium Reflect do a good job of this, offering automated scheduling of the imaging.

 

[EarthDog]

With a consumer level motherboard, your RAID options will be limited. Many will only offer RAID 0 and RAID 1. So if you want more RAID sophistication than that you are looking at an add on controller that fits into a PCIe slot.

This. On a motherboard it is a software based RAID. Most modern motherboards (Z390/Z490/B550/X570) have at least RAID0, 1 and 10... some have 0,1,5,10. This is listed in the specifications.

The problem with software RAID is that you are tied to that motherboard and chipset. Wheras with a HW RAID card, you are tied to the RAID card which is chipset agnostic.

The main emphasis will be on realiability more than speed or storage size.

Feels like I have keeping that in mind all along... mentioning he doesn't remotely need the parts he is getting, lol. That said, I gave up on that front a bit not knowing what exactly this software is and how it is configured and used. That and the OP seems to have flip-flopped on remote access and hardwired. Maybe I missed something but it feels like a constantly moving target. LOL.

That said, with reliability in mind, is why I suggested going with Intel due to some of the built-in redundancies (like integrated GPU in case the discrete card craps out). Wi-Fi and/or dual NICs on the board too will be a backup to the network (but this can be found on both AMD and Intel).

As far as the motherboard and system itself, I would look at something like this..........

i5-10600K / i5-10600 (6c/12t)
2x16GB DDR4 3200 (you can likely go 2x8GB... I don't imagine this to use anywhere close to 16GB of RAM)
MSI MPG Z490 Edge