New to RAM overclocking (with Intel B660 and locked SA voltage)

[Bluegix]

My system specs:

i5 12400F
ARCTIC Freezer 34 Esports CPU Cooler
Asus TUF Gaming B660M-Plus D4 Motherboard
2x 8GB Crucial Ballistix DDR4 3200MHz CL16 (Micron rev. E)
Inno3D RTX 3070 Ti X3
XPG Core Reactor 750W
Acer Nitro XV272U KV Monitor

BIOS picture

https://imgur.com/hC0zQvb

CPU-z

https://imgur.com/a/HrhdJuS

Asrock timing configurator

https://imgur.com/jRxQOMH

(XMP 1)

Firstly, I am looking to understand what are the Vxxx equivalent that these voltages in BIOS reflect to in voltage monitoring software like HWiNFO64, etc. (Example CPU Input voltage in BIOS = Vcore in software? What about others?)

Then, I know this is a locked CPU. So without VCCSA I cannot follow the Github DDR4 overclocking guide as it is the first step in the guide. I want to try 3600 CL16 or 3733CL16 something like that.

1) Is this possible to achieve? (I have tried to search in the internet but looks like most of the people have Z-series board)
2) Will there be difference in Premier Pro editing, rendering, gaming, overall system usage, etc?
3) If yes, please link me a guide or can I ignore the VCCSA value in Github overclocking guide and follow it?

 

[EarthDog]

Welcome!

1. Not sure on those sticks... likely 3600 though. Oh @Woomack!!!
2. Likely not a lot. A few percent, at best.
3. Note, VccSA (Sytem Agent voltage) should still be unlocked regardless if your processor is locked. It's a voltage, not a multiplier.

When you have a chance, please host the images here at the site (click on INSERT IMAGE button in replies). Those imgur pics won't be available after some time.

 

[Bluegix]

3. Note, VccSA (Sytem Agent voltage) should still be unlocked regardless if your processor is locked. It's a voltage, not a multiplier.

But Intel here says SA voltage control "no" on locked CPUs

When you have a chance, please host the images here at the site (click on INSERT IMAGE button in replies). Those imgur pics won't be available after some time.

Don't worry, this was uploaded to my Imgur account and will stay forever. I have every hardware detailed spec as an image in my Imgur account for online purposes. Though attaching directly to thread is a good idea and I will follow hereafter.

 

[Woomack]

Just start from relaxed or auto timings and manually set higher RAM clock +VDIMM and check how high it will boot. No one will tell you exactly how high it will work. You have to try it on your own.

If SA can't be adjusted in any other way then check if there is LLC option for SA in BIOS. It may set it a bit higher than at auto.

This RAM will for sure make 3600-3800+ CL16 at quite low voltages like 1.4V, but I have no idea how it will run on this motherboard and locked SA.

 

[EarthDog]

But Intel here says SA voltage control "no" on locked CPUs

RightO. But your BIOS image has a drop-down that isn't greyed out/inactive for SA. Are there any settings there?

 

[Bluegix]

Just start from relaxed or auto timings and manually set higher RAM clock +VDIMM and check how high it will boot. No one will tell you exactly how high it will work. You have to try it on your own.

If SA can't be adjusted in any other way then check if there is LLC option for SA in BIOS. It may set it a bit higher than at auto.

This RAM will for sure make 3600-3800+ CL16 at quite low voltages like 1.4V, but I have no idea how it will run on this motherboard and locked SA.

Okay, I will try this. Should I be worried about corrupted OS while testing with memtest86?

I will start with 3600 16-18-18-36 at 1.4V (default is at 1.35V)

Post magically merged: Jan 31, 2023

RightO. But your BIOS image has a drop-down that isn't greyed out/inactive for SA. Are there any settings there?

Wait, I will come back with more details on this and a picture. I remember I can choose "Manual" and enter values..

 

[Bluegix]

RightO. But your BIOS image has a drop-down that isn't greyed out/inactive for SA. Are there any settings there?

Yes, it shows manual and offset values . I remember people saying 'mobo manufacturer can release BIOS updates that can unlock locked SA voltages', so I guess Asus did it?



Should I change these DRAM frequency ratios at any point or leave it on Auto?



I changed only DRAM Frequency to DDR-3600 MHz (timings 16-18-18-36 and rest Auto ) and DRAM Voltage to 1.450 and it booted up. Ran Memtest86, it started throwing errors right away.
Is this because of unchanged SA voltage or 1.45v DRAM voltage is not enough?

 

[Woomack]

Set RAM at 18-21-21 to check max clock. Later lower timings. Micron E should work at 3600-3800 CL16 and 1.45V, but it's never guaranteed.
SA probably has to be at about 1.15-1.20V at 3600. If you can change it and it actually works then try 1.25V.

 

[Bluegix]

Set RAM at 18-21-21 to check max clock. Later lower timings. Micron E should work at 3600-3800 CL16 and 1.45V, but it's never guaranteed.
SA probably has to be at about 1.15-1.20V at 3600. If you can change it and it actually works then try 1.25V.

You mean 18-21-21-36?

Also, any "don't go above" values (24x7 usage) for DRAM and SA voltages?

 

[Woomack]

18-21-21-38 or 18-22-22-40 ... something near. This IC is sometimes in memory kits at 3600 18-22-22, but Crucial uses the best Micron IC, so it runs better.

1.35V SA is enough for 4000-4400. Typically, you set something like 1.25 SA and 1.20 IO for ~3600-3800.
Max for Micron IC is ~1.65V. It simply doesn't like anything more. It won't be damaged at higher voltages, but it will show errors, so there is no point in setting it higher. Typically, you don't need to set more than 1.50-1.55V for a higher clock and tight timings.

 

[Bluegix]

you set something like 1.25 SA and 1.20 IO for ~3600-3800.

SA is CPU System Agent Voltage in BIOS and can you let me know what is IO voltage in my BIOS?

 

[Woomack]

Looking at the list it's probably only CPU Input Voltage. It can be also at auto and ~1.15V, so may not require adjustment. On higher series motherboards it's often split into 2 IO voltages, but here I think is one option.

 

[Bluegix]

Okay, thanks for clarification. I can see System Agent voltage = SA VID (also = VCCSA??), DRAM voltage as DRAM in HWiNFO64, what would be the CPU Input voltage? Is it VTT?

 

[Woomack]

Sensors are sometimes wrong but looks like it's VTT. You can check if the same voltage is in hardware manager tab in BIOS, where are all voltages (not sure if it's even listed). On the other hand, you may not need to adjust it for 3600-3800 RAM clock.

 

[Bluegix]

Looking at the list it's probably only CPU Input Voltage. It can be also at auto and ~1.15V, so may not require adjustment. On higher series motherboards it's often split into 2 IO voltages, but here I think is one option.

CPU input voltage is not editable and it's in Auto..

Github guide says, do not leave VCCSA and VCCIO on Auto as they can push higher voltages and damage IMC. And when searched for missing VCCIO in BIOS, the people there were saying if a voltage is not shown in BIOS, then the motherboard does not support it/does not allow modifying it.

Now should I ignore VCCIO and set only VCCSA and proceed? What about the higher voltages into IMC warning in github guide (under IMC section)?

 

[Woomack]

Github guide says, do not leave VCCSA and VCCIO on Auto as they can push higher voltages and damage IMC.

I don't know who wrote that, but it's not true. Every motherboard has its limit at auto, and it's typically 1.45V SA and 1.35V IO or something near, no matter how high you set the memory clock. What's more, recommended for some 4800-5200 RAM is ~1.5V SA, and somewhere there will stop MSI OC motherboards when you use XMP profiles for the highest kits (I don't remember other brands).
The point at which motherboards show possible damage warning is ~1.65V SA (1.5V on older chipsets). I was pushing up to 1.8V SA, and nothing happened (not saying it's safe). However, because of additional heat, it's not recommended to pass 1.45V, which is still enough for up to 4800-5000 on most CPUs.
IO is split into IO1 and IO2 on OC series motherboards or anything higher from ASUS or MSI. IO1 stays at close to stock, and IO2 goes up to 1.45V when you OC RAM or use XMP on high-frequency memory kits (4400+). When is only one IO, then it shouldn't be set at much more than 1.3V.

And when searched for missing VCCIO in BIOS, the people there were saying if a voltage is not shown in BIOS, then the motherboard does not support it/does not allow modifying it.
Now should I ignore VCCIO and set only VCCSA and proceed? What about the higher voltages into IMC warning in github guide (under IMC section)?

Looks like you can't change it, so just skip it. As I said, it still should let you set 3600-3800.

I wasn't reading any guide, so I'm not sure what other voltages are mentioned, but you shouldn't need any other voltage on Z690/Z790 motherboards. Everything is covered under auto and is at the range that lets to set much higher frequencies. In most cases, if you OC RAM up to even 4800+ then you only need SA and IO2.

Maybe just check how high it will go, and don't worry about additional settings, as they won't help you.

 

[Bluegix]

I don't know who wrote that, but it's not true. Every motherboard has its limit at auto, and it's typically 1.45V SA and 1.35V IO or something near, no matter how high you set the memory clock. What's more, recommended for some 4800-5200 RAM is ~1.5V SA, and somewhere there will stop MSI OC motherboards when you use XMP profiles for the highest kits (I don't remember other brands).
The point at which motherboards show possible damage warning is ~1.65V SA (1.5V on older chipsets). I was pushing up to 1.8V SA, and nothing happened (not saying it's safe). However, because of additional heat, it's not recommended to pass 1.45V, which is still enough for up to 4800-5000 on most CPUs.
IO is split into IO1 and IO2 on OC series motherboards or anything higher from ASUS or MSI. IO1 stays at close to stock, and IO2 goes up to 1.45V when you OC RAM or use XMP on high-frequency memory kits (4400+). When is only one IO, then it shouldn't be set at much more than 1.3V.



Looks like you can't change it, so just skip it. As I said, it still should let you set 3600-3800.

I wasn't reading any guide, so I'm not sure what other voltages are mentioned, but you shouldn't need any other voltage on Z690/Z790 motherboards. Everything is covered under auto and is at the range that lets to set much higher frequencies. In most cases, if you OC RAM up to even 4800+ then you only need SA and IO2.

Maybe just check how high it will go, and don't worry about additional settings, as they won't help you.

Thanks for the explanation. Cam I go for tight timings at same speed? (3200 MHz CL14) or I should faster speeds and relative timings?

 

[Woomack]

Microns will run like CL14-17-16 at 3600-3800, depending on voltages. It may need 1.5-1.55V VDIMM, maybe less, but you have to test it on your own. Sub timings are not going much lower than in XMP/auto, but you can play with them too. I'm just not sure if you notice any difference. RAM clock/main timings will give you maybe 1-3% performance gain, sometimes maybe up to 5%, but barely anything reacts well to RAM settings, and that 5% will be in games at low display resolution that already have over 100-150FPS. Further tweaking will give you 0-1% but may take a lot of time.
To know for sure you have to test it on your setup, but on new PCs, RAM tuning is not helping as much as expected.

 

[Bluegix]

Microns will run like CL14-17-16 at 3600-3800, depending on voltages. It may need 1.5-1.55V VDIMM, maybe less, but you have to test it on your own. Sub timings are not going much lower than in XMP/auto, but you can play with them too. I'm just not sure if you notice any difference. RAM clock/main timings will give you maybe 1-3% performance gain, sometimes maybe up to 5%, but barely anything reacts well to RAM settings, and that 5% will be in games at low display resolution that already have over 100-150FPS. Further tweaking will give you 0-1% but may take a lot of time.
To know for sure you have to test it on your setup, but on new PCs, RAM tuning is not helping as much as expected.

How about performance difference in applications like Adobe premiere pro editing and rendering?

 

[EarthDog]

Negligible in many cases. At best a couple of percent here or there, but nothing consistent... it depends on what your doing in those apps.