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Zithras

Registered
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
So...I'm planning to put together a REALLY nice desktop for myself to replace an aging and failing 5 year old laptop currently being used as a desktop hooked up to an extensive support array of peripherals and external drives (which are also driving me nuts, but anyway...)

I'm new to watercooling, and had several questions. I'm new to watercooling, and the forums have been a wonderful resource. I still have several questions however, and would appreciate any help offered.

Anyways, before the questions, here's my tentative build list. Note that this is a list of what will eventually (ideally) be in the computer. I may not buy all of it now (for example, I'll likely buy 1 video card/monitor right now, then the 2 others in a few months as the price drops), but for the sake of argument, assume I'm going to buy everything now (which may happen if I'm lucky anyway), so it all has to fit It's been 5 years since my last computer purchase for myself, and probably more like 8 since my last serious computer build for myself (I build for others all the time), so price isn't really a huge issue here, as you can see (although, NO, I am not really interested in trying to cram in 4 $1500 Peltier coolers for everything - let's stick to air and water here)

Processor: 980X overclocked (watercooled)

MB: Rampage III Extreme
PSU: Corsair CMPSU-1000HX 1000W
Ram: 2xG.Skill Trident 6GB (3x2GB) DDR32000 Model F3016000CL9T-6GBTD
Video Card: 3xEVGA 012-P3-1472-AR GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) SuperClocked (2x SLI on monitors 1-2, 1xthird monitor; performance increase to the 480s is minimal for the extra $200, so 470s work; not to mention they're easier to find)
Audio card: HT Omega Striker 7.1
OS: Windows 7 Ultimate x64
Hard Drive(s):
1x Intel X25-M 160GB (main OS/Program drive)
1x Kingston SSDNow V Series SNV425-S2/64GB 2.5" 64GB (Swap file, temp files, scratch disk)
2x Hitachi Deskstar 7K2000 2TB (In Raid 1, for storage)
HDD Coolers: 2xLogisys HS102BL 5.25" Aluminum Hard Disk Cooler & Silencer (passive, for the Hitachi drives)
Case: Corsair Obsidian 800D
Optical Drive 1: Pioneer 12X BD-RE BDR-205BKS
Optical Drive 2: LG 10X BR-RE WH10LS30K
Card Reader: AFTXM-35U (3.5")
LAN: Intel EXPI9402PT 10/ 100/ 1000Mbps PCI-Express PRO/1000 PT Dual Port Server Adapter (dual Gigabit with teaming)
Pump: Swiftech MCP655
Reservoir: Swiftech Micro Rev. 2
Radiator: Thermochill PA 120.3
Radiator Fans: 6x Scythe GentleTyphoon D1225C1B4AP-14 1450 RPM 21 dB
Radiator Shroud: 2x Thermochill PA 120.3 Shroud?
Tubing: ???
Clamps: ???
CPU Block: Swiftech Apogee XT
Coolant: (1L?) OCZ Freeze Extreme Clear
Pump Base: Gelstuff block
Also keyboard, mouse, pad, cables, etc.

Aaaaand here are my questions:

1. The main reason I originally decided to try out watercooling is noise. A chip overclocked considerably on air will sound like a jet engine taking off (at least my 3.4 GhZ 6600 does). Will the above setup be relatively quiet? I want to run it 24/7, and it doesn't have to be silent, but I want to be able to sleep in the next room, and use my TV without the computer noise being obvious. When I'm not using it to render/encode/compile/game, it'll probably be folding for at least the next 5 years. I want to overclock the CPU to a minimum of 4 GhZ, but would REALLY love it if I can get 4.5 on this setup - what do you think?

2. Airflow issues: The case is great for watercooling, but only has a few fans. Will this be enough for the graphics cards? I'm a bit worried about the noise on the graphics cards too - has anyone had experience with these cards? Which brings me to the next question...

3. Cooling. I do not plan on overclocking the GPUs, and will probably push the ram until it's as high as it can go and be stable, but I don't really care about getting maximum performance out of the ram (I'm much more concerned with the CPU). Likewise, I can't really see enough benefit from watercooling the Northbridge, so don't want to do that. Originally, I was just planning on having the CPU under water for the lower noise and improved performance (compared to large aircooled heatsinks). Would the graphics cards be quieter on water? I've heard that the fans on them can get quite loud. I was considering putting the GPUs under water (but not overclocking them), but had several issues: a) what waterblocks to use? b) If I do this, I'd want a second loop so I can get the CPU as high as possible (my ambient temps can reach almost 27C), but...where will I put a second pump, reservoir, and radiator assembly (I'd really like to fit everything in the case, or mounted outside on the side if necessary). I assume I'd need another 120.3 with 6 more fans if I do this, and those are quite large... c) would it really be quieter? The GPU fans might be loud, but would it still be quieter than a second pump + 6 Typhoons? In other words, would a second loop for GPUs help with noise control, and where would i put the darn thing?

4. Space: Is this case big enough? What should I get if not? Will it fir 2 complete loops if I need them for the GPUs?

5. Fans: I don't really want a fan controller. For one thing, it'll take up a bay on the front. If i need one, I'll probably try and mount it inside the case. Instead, I'd just like to leave the fans running on 'full' (another thing to consider for question #1). As far as I can tell, I can just chain all 6 radiator fans to each other and power them off a single Molex connector...has anyone tried this? Results? Will I need a fan controller or 2?

6. Radiator: How do I mount the fans? Does the 120.3 come with 2 fan shrouds included, or will I have to buy them? Does the fan shroud install on either side, or will I have to use another method to mount 3 fans to the other side of the radiator. (I assume I will need 6 fans in push/pull, since that seems pretty standard on the 120.3 setups). Where's the best place to mount 1 radiator? 2? Do I need to cut large holes in the case sides to ensure proper airflow (otherwise won't a fan or two be blocked on one side?)

7: Mounting. What do you recommend for mounting the watercooling equipment inside the case? Should I even bother, or should I just leave the pump and reservoir lying on the bottom? I assume the radiator at least will need mounting. How?

8: Fluid. Should I bother to use the OCZ stuff, or just stick with distilled water. If water, what additive brands are recommended? If I get the OCZ, how much should I order (just looking for a rough estimate here)

9: lapping. Does the Apogee need lapping? Should I lap the CPU before mounting? (If it matters, I was planning to use OCZ Freeze as the thermal compound in the mount). If I have space for a 2nd GPU loop, and if it will be quieter, do I need to sand down either the GPUs or the GPU blocks?

10: Tubing and clamps. As far as I can tell, some of the parts use different tubing sizes, and the guides on choosing tubing are a bit confusing. What tubing types will I need (any recommendations on brand - most posts on this topic are quite old)? What's the best way to connect the two different sizes (I don't care about looks, so probably not compression fittings - maybe a clamp of some type?) What clamps should I use to anchor the tubing and mount it to the case? (The general consensus seems to be unbarbed worm clamps, but does anyone have a link to the proper type, size and material please - there's tons of clamps out there, and I don't want to order the wrong thing)

11: Other. Are there any parts I'm missing or things I'm glaringly overlooking?

Thank you all in advance for any help you can offer.

Zithras
 

Conumdrum

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
It's a decent start. Just to really toss one critical issue right away.

You'll need a 120x3 for JUST the GPU's.
EDIT: THREE? 120x4 for JUST the GPUs

You'll need a seperate 120x3 for the CPU if you want 4.5 and want it quiet.

TWO pumps
TWO resivoiurs
Two radiators
Fully seperate loops, no mixing of liquids.

Might look at a bigger case..........

I'll come back later and look at more stuff.
 
Last edited:

Grosjambon

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Montreal - Canada Or @Cegep Maisoneuve
Omg my eyesss is hurting me! too much too much reading to do!!! oh nooo
First, Welcome to OCF rich, won't u bankrupt with that i7 980x +_+
okay.
1. thermochill (PA 120.3) will be more than enough for ur i7 980x. GT 1450 are relativery QUIET! buy 6 and run them on a fan controller ;)
2. Why 3 470? What kind of monitor ur running... yes they will get hot. 800d is not the best **air cooling case** since u are not going all watercool. TJ07 is a good alternative.
3. U can only fit 120.3/120.3 at top and 120.2 at bottom (swiftech 220) u lose 3 HDD place. Since u want to dual loop 3 470 will need at least a quad rad... they put at least 600w... I dont know if 980x can run out of an 220 rad. but I dont think so. Otherwise u can put 120.3 at top and 120.4 at back of the 800d running dual loop. Yes it will reduce Noise.
4. I answered in my number 3... :(
5.euuh. Someone might want to answer for me :)
6. Fan shroud are not included cost a lot and u will see not a lot of gain over it. u just screw the fan as pull push.
7.As I said 120.3 at top 120.3 at rear U might want a second pair of hand to help. Hard to screw something on top of a case...
8.Fluid. stick with DISTILLED water and pt_nuke.
9. No need to lap.
10. Tubing. Primochill LRT *any color* 1/2 3/4OD if u go mcp655 3/8 In mcp 355 or any size if u go pump/top combo (mcp355 only) aftermarket top
Barbs/Clamp Pure silver clamps. - clamps go at hardware place / or order it online worms clamps (metal clamps are the best.) Comp fitting look nice u might want to buy some 45s to make thing look cleaner.
11. Have to read back...

As for case Mountain Mods make Really big case :)
 

Conumdrum

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
(although, NO, I am not really interested in trying to cram in 4 $1500 Peltier coolers for everything - let's stick to air and water here)

Okay, going with one GPU and a HOT CPU for now, but upgrades will happen, gotcha.

Processor: 980X overclocked (watercooled)

MB: Rampage III Extreme
PSU: Corsair CMPSU-1000HX 1000W
Good PSU, but might look at 3 470's and your CPU. Is it enough?
Case: Corsair Obsidian 800D
Too small
Pump: Swiftech MCP655
Hopefully you know the diff between the vario and the basic version, get the vario, better. But, with you massive REQUIRED rad setup might look at the DDC3.2, a dual res with mounts for two of the above pumps to save space
Reservoir: Swiftech Micro Rev. 2
Radiator: Thermochill PA 120.3
For JUST the CPU, needing tons more real estate for the GPU rad. Guess you haven't done your homework on heatload, DT temps etc yet.

Radiator Fans: 6x Scythe GentleTyphoon D1225C1B4AP-14 1450 RPM 21 dB
Great fans, look at the 1850's if your worried about heatload, your probably okay with those. You'll need 7 of them, you don't need push pull.

Radiator Shroud: 2x Thermochill PA 120.3 Shroud?
Overrated. Not needed, will discuss later if needed.
Tubing:1/2" 3/4" Primochill LRT tubing. You need 18". You'll use less, nice to have extra if you screw up. You will.
Clamps: ???
Look into some rotary 45's and 90's , 5 each is enough for a start. You'll find you need them. Get them NOW before you find out you need them to build the loop. Lined hose clamps for your Bitspower barbs. Yes, Bitspower barbs, 1/2" OD, G1/4 threads


CPU Block: Swiftech Apogee XT
Coolant: (1L?) OCZ Freeze Extreme Clear
One liter HAHAHA! For your needs, nope. Walmart distilled water at $1 a gallon and a bottle of Petras PHN PT-Nuke, last for years, 4 drops per liter. You'll have 2 gallons or so once the rig is all done.
Pump Base: Gelstuff block
Velcro, hold tight and is a natural vibration absorber.
Also keyboard, mouse, pad, cables, etc.

Aaaaand here are my questions:

1. The main reason I originally decided to try out watercooling is noise. A chip overclocked considerably on air will sound like a jet engine taking off (at least my 3.4 GhZ 6600 does). Will the above setup be relatively quiet? I want to run it 24/7, and it doesn't have to be silent, but I want to be able to sleep in the next room, and use my TV without the computer noise being obvious. When I'm not using it to render/encode/compile/game, it'll probably be folding for at least the next 5 years. I want to overclock the CPU to a minimum of 4 GhZ, but would REALLY love it if I can get 4.5 on this setup - what do you think?
4.5? Depends on a cherry CPU and how good it is. The rig suggested won't hold you back. Your chip/mobo will.

2. Airflow issues: The case is great for watercooling, but only has a few fans. Will this be enough for the graphics cards? I'm a bit worried about the noise on the graphics cards too - has anyone had experience with these cards? Which brings me to the next question...

Watercooling will remove 80% of the case heat in your situation

3. Cooling. I do not plan on overclocking the GPUs, and will probably push the ram until it's as high as it can go and be stable, but I don't really care about getting maximum performance out of the ram (I'm much more concerned with the CPU). Likewise, I can't really see enough benefit from watercooling the Northbridge, so don't want to do that. Originally, I was just planning on having the CPU under water for the lower noise and improved performance (compared to large aircooled heatsinks). Would the graphics cards be quieter on water? I've heard that the fans on them can get quite loud. I was considering putting the GPUs under water (but not overclocking them), but had several issues: a) what waterblocks to use? b) If I do this, I'd want a second loop so I can get the CPU as high as possible (my ambient temps can reach almost 27C), but...where will I put a second pump, reservoir, and radiator assembly (I'd really like to fit everything in the case, or mounted outside on the side if necessary). I assume I'd need another 120.3 with 6 more fans if I do this, and those are quite large... c) would it really be quieter? The GPU fans might be loud, but would it still be quieter than a second pump + 6 Typhoons? In other words, would a second loop for GPUs help with noise control, and where would i put the darn thing?

You fit it as you can. Yep, you'll want to go to Mountain Mods.com. Got $500? Your crazy 3 470's and your total rad requirements put yo over the top for mounting rads. A 120x3 and a 120x4 or two 120x2 rads JUST for the GPU. Only TWO custom companies comes to mind..... Mountain Mods or Danger Den. Look up both. Or you could make a tech station or buy one as long as no kids or cats etc. I have a Banchetto tech station, sold at Sidewinders. But a 120x4 is kinda silly on it.

4. Space: Is this case big enough? What should I get if not? Will it fit 2 complete loops if I need them for the GPUs?
NO

5. Fans: I don't really want a fan controller. For one thing, it'll take up a bay on the front. If i need one, I'll probably try and mount it inside the case. Instead, I'd just like to leave the fans running on 'full' (another thing to consider for question #1). As far as I can tell, I can just chain all 6 radiator fans to each other and power them off a single Molex connector...has anyone tried this? Results? Will I need a fan controller or 2?

One fan controller can handle 3-4 regualr fans, like the ones you chose. My cheapo good controller has 3 120mm fans on one channel,3 120mm fans on one channel, 2 92mm fans on one channel, one 120mm fan on the last one. I adjust as needed, but since I have plenty of rad, I just turn them up a bit in the summer. I don't need to change them for gaming, my rig is QUIET. I sleep in the next room, I CANNOT hear my PC.

6. Radiator: How do I mount the fans? Does the 120.3 come with 2 fan shrouds included, or will I have to buy them? Does the fan shroud install on either side, or will I have to use another method to mount 3 fans to the other side of the radiator. (I assume I will need 6 fans in push/pull, since that seems pretty standard on the 120.3 setups). Where's the best place to mount 1 radiator? 2? Do I need to cut large holes in the case sides to ensure proper airflow (otherwise won't a fan or two be blocked on one side?)
Again, with your crazy GPU needs, you need lots of space to mount the rads. Shrouds aren't required. It's not a great amount of gain to start with. You don't need push/pull fans. I don't use them. I have the right sized rads and ones that work fine with my fans.

Rads are like humans. Many different types, sizes, fans requirements etc. You got a LOT to learn about heatload, DT, right fans, etc.

7: Mounting. What do you recommend for mounting the watercooling equipment inside the case? Should I even bother, or should I just leave the pump and reservoir lying on the bottom? I assume the radiator at least will need mounting. How?
Much bigger box. Coolest air (room air) to each rad. Gives best temps. You'll learn more once you figure out DT temps and thermal loads.

8: Fluid. Should I bother to use the OCZ stuff, or just stick with distilled water. If water, what additive brands are recommended? If I get the OCZ, how much should I order (just looking for a rough estimate here)

You can pay the marketer who wrote the fancy statement for his boat payment, or the other dozen who make snake oil. Your choice.

9: lapping. Does the Apogee need lapping? Should I lap the CPU before mounting? (If it matters, I was planning to use OCZ Freeze as the thermal compound in the mount). If I have space for a 2nd GPU loop, and if it will be quieter, do I need to sand down either the GPUs or the GPU blocks?

Darnit man, you going WAYYY to deep NO!!!! maybe in the future, but it's not a requirement at all.

10: Tubing and clamps. As far as I can tell, some of the parts use different tubing sizes, and the guides on choosing tubing are a bit confusing. What tubing types will I need (any recommendations on brand - most posts on this topic are quite old)? What's the best way to connect the two different sizes (I don't care about looks, so probably not compression fittings - maybe a clamp of some type?) What clamps should I use to anchor the tubing and mount it to the case? (The general consensus seems to be unbarbed worm clamps, but does anyone have a link to the proper type, size and material please - there's tons of clamps out there, and I don't want to order the wrong thing)

11: Other. Are there any parts I'm missing or things I'm glaringly overlooking?

Thank you all in advance for any help you can offer.

Zithras

Maybe if you made a small post saying you need input for a massive rig and know nothing about watercooling I coild of just quickly posted 10 links to help you learn. You could read for a few weeks, ask a few questions, and we might be done. You got a TON a TON to learn. But your already thinking, I like that and am glad to help.

Your big issue is your big plans. It's a HELL of a lot. Most start out with a simple CPU loop and grow. You want to go max right away. Or plan to with 3 470's. It makes a huge diff in planning your case, your hose routing, and WOW.

Maybe you should plan for the monster and get the case to hold it all first. Then get the proper WC rig for your planned CPU overclock. Once you done that and have a clue (you have no clue yet) then WC the first GPU (live with air for a few weeks) and then WC your first GPU with the massive raddage you need for you final build. It's easy to add GPU blocks once you have a clue. Start small. Learn, don't do it all at once and fry the mobo and make me sad.
My rig:
http://www.overclockers.com/annual-water-cooling-cleaning-rebuild-journal/

Follow this thread, make many bookmarks from the links, please.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641495

Your ready but need to figure out much more. Take your time.
 
Last edited:
OP
Z

Zithras

Registered
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
thanks

Thanks for the replies (and for reading the list :) )- I've actually been reading threads for a few weeks, and have a good idea on the work required and parts needed, but unfortunately, most of the stickied threads a a couple years old, and can't help me with specific parts (hence the questions). I've really tried to do my own research before I posted my questions - sorry if I do not come across that way. Anyway, here's my replies/comments/questions to your replies :D

PSU: Nuts. I was afraid of this. The 1000W is the biggest that Corsair sells. I could use one and jump a second one, but where to put them then?

Case: I chose the 800D because it was the biggest case that everyone was recommending? What would you choose? I looked at Mountain Mods, but was hoping to stay away from the something like the UFO (full-tower size would be ideal). The Plateau would work, but doesn't have enough 5.25 bays. I might have to go with the UFO Duality, but if I can find something smaller, that would be ideal.

Res: I'll look at the DDC 3.2 - thanks.

Radiator: oh good. All the stickied threads seemed to use push pull setups - using just 3 fans instead will save space. And yeah, I was planning on the 120.3 #1 on just being on the CPU. If I watercool the GPUs too, I'd probably use another 120.3 on the GPUS (Change the .3s to .4s if I have to use the UFO case)

Other thoughts:
a) If I just use a single 120.3 on the CPU, and leave the GPUs stock aircooled, as was the original plan, what case should I use? Will it be incredibly loud that way?
b) Assuming I watercool the GPUs: You mentioned a 120.4 on the GPUs - I'm not planning on overclocking them, so would a 120.3 work? - It'd be much easier to fit in 2x120.3 on the top and back than a 120.3 and a 120.4

So really, I'm looking at:
2xloop (CPU/GPU): 120.3 x1 + 120.4 x1, but major case space issues unless I go with a 2xtowerspace case like the UFO.
1x CPU loop, air GPU: Case might work, but PSU issues and airflow issues. No answers yet on noise issues.

Edit: Just to make it clear so you think I'm (less) nuts - the original plan in the first post was to go with aircooling on the GPUs - I only brought up watercooling them to ask if I could do it to cut down noise and still have space for loop #2. I think I confused conundrum (very helpful post by the way). I NEVER EVER planned on cooling 1 cpu and 3 gpus on a single 120.3 Since the answer is definitely NO unless I go with a UFO, then it seems like I'm back to a watercooled CPU and an aircooled GPU - which means I now have questions about noise :)

Edit 2: I'll be out of town until Monday night, so expect to see my next reply then :)
 
Last edited:

Conumdrum

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
The 470's are loud when the fan is cranked up. It can be loud. A good case with lots of airflow will help somewhat. Putting three of those side by side will really make them hotter, all you can do is increase the case airflow. I'm sure someone has or will have a nice air cooled HS for the 470/480. They really really work. I had a Thermalright HR03 on a 8800GT a few years ago, the card was silent. The cooler is so big there was no way you could SLI any more cards though.

For SLI, your pretty much stuck with stock fans or watercooling as far as I know. I could be wrong.

3 470s put out about 270 watts underload, EACH. 810 watts WoWW!
Use this chart please.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/hwlasrse.html
Follow the red line, you want quiet right?
Take the line to the end of the chart for 800 watts. Look at the left scale, your DT would be 17C. Thats not good at all, your GPUs could have Vreg issues with a DT of that. Try to keep your DT under 15C on a GPU loop, 10C is better.

Did more research. Lets go with 240 under load for each card, so a 120x3 is looking almost doable. Almost....
 
OP
Z

Zithras

Registered
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
updated parts

Sorry about the late reply - I've been spending the last few days reading replies and looking up new parts.

Mostly for noise control, it seems as if it will be best to put in two complete loops, one for CPU and one for GPUx3, rather than just leavinf the GPUs aircooled. This required a complete rethink as far as case design goes.

Sooo...here's what I'm currently thinking as far as part replacements, and a few questions I still have on the new setup. Once again, thanks for all the help (both past and future!)

Case: Changed to MountainMods Ascension. I could, with effort, likely fit 1 loop into an Obsidian (the original plan). If I go two, no way. A bigger case is something it seems i must live with for two loops. On the plus side, the Ascension is more than large enough that I can fit en two complete loops easily with space to spare.

PSU: Changed to Antec 1200W The 6 rails (instead of 2) will make balancing a bit of a pain, but shouldn't be that bad, since all I'll have to balance is drives and fans. I could probably run the system on a 1000W, but this definitely will since it's quad SLI rated.

Motherboard: Changed to EVGA 760 Classified. General consensus seems that it is a better overclocking board. I have one huge worry with this - will it run a 3xCrossfire setup? The board is 3xSLI compatible, but nothing mentions anything about Crossfire or ATI cards. However, it has a X58 chipset, which I always throught had Crossfire support built in? Anoyone own this board who can clarify this?

LAN card, Shrouds: gone. 'Nuff said. Coolant changed to distilled water + PTNuke.

USB 3.0: Getting the ASUS U3S6 usb 3.0 card. Having the ports will be useful for external drives, and the MB doesn't support it by default. One worry: The board has 4 pcix16 slots. But will it be able to support 3 cards and this USB card without downgrading performance on the graphics cards? If not, I'll have to drop the USB card. The specs don't really say how this board reacts to all PCIe slots getting filled

CPU block: Changed to EK-Supreme Copper. It's a better block

Tubing: PrimoChill PrimoFlex LRT 1/2" ID 3/4" OD Tubing (UV Blue)

Clamps/barbs: Still confused a bit on what I want here. Will these clamps do? http://www.amazon.com/9-5mm-22-2mm-...ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1273124558&sr=1-5 They seem to be the same type that the computer stores sell, but cheaper. What about barbs? Any other bits I'll need?

Video Cards: Changed to 3x ATI 5870s. Better performance than the NVidia 470s, at the same price. Plus, I can use three monitors in 3xXfire, rather than 2X + standalone. Most importantly, they're quieter, with less heat, and less power usage. What's not to like?

Video card blocks: Dragon's Den DD5870x3 - cheapest ones I could find. Good enough, since I'm not planning to OC the gpus (unless maybe I get bored :p )

Pump: need another of the same. I assume this is the vario (i.e. 'good') version? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108082 I think it is, but am not sure.

Reservoir: Added a second Micro. I really liked the Danger Den dual reservoir that was suggested (I can hook both pumps to it) but it's been out of stock for a long time, and no one knows when it'll be back. Is there any other similar reservoir out there (i.e. one that I can hook 2 pumps to) - it can be bay-based or not, doesn't really matter.

Radiator: Instead of 1 Thermochill 120.3, I'm changing to 3x 120.4s. 1 will be for the CPU loop, and two as the GPU loops. What's the best way to setup the GPU loop? GPU1->2->3->Rad1->2 or G1->R1->G2->G3->R2?

Radiator fans: changed the 3x 1450 RPM GentleTyphoons (D1225C12B4AP-14) to 12x 1150 RPM GentleTyphoons (D1225C12B4AP-13). With so many, and lots of radiator space, might as well go for the quieter fans :)

Other fans: 11x 800 RPM GentleTyphoons (D1225C12B4AP-12) - need to fill those fan holes, and they're pretty much silent :D

Airflow: 12 1150 RPM fans on the radiators blowing into the case. 2 800 RPM fans on the HDD brackets blowing into the case. 9 800 RPM fans blowing out of the case (5 on back, 4 on front). Unbalanced, but since the case is so big, I'm assuming it won't matter. If you have other suggestions, feel free to post em :D

Other thoughts: The main goal of this build was originally to get as close to 4.5 on the CPU as I could and still remain rock stable. Would changing the 4 1150 RPM fans on the CPU radiator back to the 1450's help much with this? I assume not, since at this point, I've got a huge radiator on it and plenty of airflow, would like advice from someone with some experience.

Finally narrowing the parts list down! Yay! Will probably start ordering next week or the week after if answers turn out as expected. If not, will keep on asking questions :D
 

Grosjambon

Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Montreal - Canada Or @Cegep Maisoneuve
I dont think the clamps u linker will work.
Ur tubing is 1/2 ID 3/4 OD clamps are 3/8 to 7/8.
Check at your hardware store. 1/2 ID 3/4OD exist in these diameter ( i use these...)
So you are going
120x4 for cpu?
2 120x4 for gpu? or
120x3 for cpu
2 120x4 for gpu or 1 120x4 for gpu?
If u want to save some money go swiftech :) u wont see difference since u go dual loop.
MCR 320 (cpu)+ 2x or 1x mcr420 for Gpu will be enough.
 

mrgettmann

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Location
CT
Motherboard: Changed to EVGA 760 Classified. General consensus seems that it is a better overclocking board. I have one huge worry with this - will it run a 3xCrossfire setup? The board is 3xSLI compatible, but nothing mentions anything about Crossfire or ATI cards. However, it has a X58 chipset, which I always throught had Crossfire support built in? Anoyone own this board who can clarify this?

Other thoughts: The main goal of this build was originally to get as close to 4.5 on the CPU as I could and still remain rock stable. Would changing the 4 1150 RPM fans on the CPU radiator back to the 1450's help much with this? I assume not, since at this point, I've got a huge radiator on it and plenty of airflow, would like advice from someone with some experience.

ASUS Rampage 3 extreme has been out for less than 3 weeks, I have had mine for for about 10 days and got it ordered the day it became available. The reviews I read for it prior to release were done on beta BIOS, and from there it looks like an overclocking monster. Only time will tell if it is truely good or not, but right now I would not be so quick to state that the EVGA is "better". It is proven to be good, but the R3E is too new to have a fair compairison.

What are you planning on doing with this thing? Short of folding you should be able to run 3 monitors on 2 GTX 470 or 5870s easy. From what I understand the gains from SLI/X-fire have diminishing returns (best term I can think of). For example, 2 cards = approx 160% of the ability of 1 card, and 3 cards = approx 190% of the ability of 1 card. 30% increase of one card (approx 18% increase compaired to the 2 cards) is not much compaired to the $300-350 price tag. That would save you cash, space, and wattage.

Sticking with the R3E would save you from getting the USB3.

Quieter fans dont necessarly mean better, it depends on the FPI(fins per inch) of your radiator, lower the FPI the slower(and potentially quieter) fans work better. But for high PFI radiators, faster fans are required.

Also about that entire shroud or push/pull set up on your radiators can save you on the actual area requirements, or drop your temps even more.

check this out

I found this review very informing. If your conserned with space, 30mm added to your radiator thickness might be just enough cooling to get away with a 120.3 instead of a 120.4 or 120.2 instead of 120.3.

Not 100% sure but I would think that a two 120.4 radiators for 3 GPUs is a little overkill, even if you went with GTX480s.

Hopefully that helps with some of your questions.
 

Conumdrum

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Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
The shroud idea. Remember one important thing.

A 6-13% increase in the tests. Only the high RPM fans showed good gains. We aren't talking 13% decrease in CPU temps. We are talking about the DT temp gains, which don't translate to CPU temps very well.

Say you got a GOOD CPU loop at 7C DT. 13% gain using 2000++ RPM fans with a shroud? 0.91 decrease in DT temps. Not significant. FEW loops use such massive fannage. Do the math, try 9% for a real world middle number of the expected gains.

Few rads have ready made shrouds. They do help, but knowing the real world benefits over getting a big enuff rad is proven... In math.
 

mrgettmann

Member
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Apr 7, 2010
Location
CT
Was just throwing the shroud idea back in the mix. Didn't know if space was still an issue for the OP, went from a single 120.3 for CPU and single 120.3 potentially for GPUs, to single 120.4 for CPU and 2 120.4 for GPUs in less than a week. Even for Tri-fire that seems like overkill especially sence most use just 120.3 for 2 cards. Its almost double the radiator that I would think would be needed, even if he stuck with the fermi cards. I envy the OPs 999 rupie wallet.
 

Conumdrum

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Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
It's all about heatoad, the noise fro fans, and the space. A shroud helps little once the math opens eyes.

the OP needs to plan for his heatload, ambients, and noise. First.

Shrouds can help if the OP is close in temps and limited on space. It's a secondary calculation.

I think the OP needs to work the basics out first.

You had some great points though.... I only hit the shroud issue.
 
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OP
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Zithras

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Jun 1, 2008
Sigh. I have already worked out heat loads. Yes, I know that I could get away with 2 radiators, a 120.3 and a 120.4 with 1450 RPM fans on both. Yes, I know that I could do a push/pull setup, but it doubles the space, doubles the fan cost, and seems unnecessary. I originally got rid of the shrouds because they seem to work best for high speed fans, which I was trying to avoid. I've already pretty much done my research. The questions I had were basically on how much I could stretch the rules.

The original build was for one 120.3 on the CPU. The reason I went from 1x120.3 to 3x120.4 is the second loop, combined with the case design, NOT because I wasn't thinking this out.

Finally, yes, I know perfectly well that 2 120.4s for the gpus is overkill. The problem is, with the Ascension case, I have 12 fan holes to fill on the side, 5 on the back, and 6 on the front. This breaks down as so (switched around the fan directions a bit):

5 on back blowing into case
6 on front blowing into case (inc. 2 with drive bays attached).
These 11 work fine with 800 RPM GTs

Here's where things get more complex...first, I don't really want shrouds, and I want to go with the quietest fans I can get away with. From the stickied comparison threads, the 120.3 seemed to do great with a 1450 rpm fan (the op), and I was hoping I could get away with a 1100 rpm GT (which was one of the questions in the last post), since the Thermochill isn't quite as lowrpm hostile as many other good radiators out there. If not, please post.

The side of the case has 12 fan holes, and space for 3 120.4s with 15mm spacing. This leaves me several options:
1) 2x 120.4 with either 1100 OR 1450 RPM GTs blowing out + 4 holes to fill with 800 RPM GT fans
2) 3x 120.4 with either 1100 OR 1450 RPM GTs blowing out

#2 is overkill, but I have the extra slot anyway, so why not. The major problems there are a. can I get away with 1100 RPM fans on a 120.4 and b. This gives 12 fans out and 11 slower fans in, resulting in negative case pressure :(. If I switch the fan directions, then the radiator fans are blowing warm air into the case. This is bad.

#1 should work just fine, but gives more 4 extra fan slots. I can fill them with 4x800 rpm GTs blowing out, which also gives me a negative pressure problem, or with 4 blowing in, which solves the negative pressure, but leaves me a case back with fans blowing both out AND in, which is just weird.

So really, the only remaining questions are:
What is the quietest fan I should install on a 120.4 radiator? All the comparison threads I have read show 1450 RPM fans as working just fine, but can i get away with 1100 RPM fans?
If not GentleTyphoons, then what brand? I picked the GTs because from my aircooling experience, they're really the quietest fans out there for the CFM they put out. If they don't work for watercooling, what does?
Which setup should I go with - #1 or #2? If #1, what fans to use? If #2, then what fans to use and what should I do with the extra 4 fan holes if not stuff in a third radiator :D?

I have already planned for my heatload, and any of the proposed setups should meet it (i.e. 2x 120.4 or 3x 120.4). I already know I have high ambient temperature. Now, I am trying to get help minimizing noise. As I said, the third radiator is there simply because I have the space, and would have to install the fans for it anyway. If it is completely useless, I'll lose it. Still, since i have the space, I would MUCH rather put it in and use lower RPM fans than take it out and use higher RPM fans. Just a thought.

Note: The original reason I chose the 120.3 was because it seemed to do just find with fans in the 1000-1700 RPM range, which is what I was originally looking at, and is really a good performer overall no matter what the fan speed on it is. http://skinneelabs.com/triplesv2.html I can always change radiators, or change fans if necessary, but the 120.3 seems to be a decent choice right now. If I wanted high speed fans, I'd go with a GTX, but I don't.

Edit: what's wrong with the clamps? 3/4" OD is smaller than the 7/8 max the clamps are rated for, and i shouldn't need to tighten them anywhere near the 3/8" clamp minimum?

Edit 2: I've used a couple of other heat load calculators already, but just wanted to let you know that the link you posted for one of them, http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/hwlasrse.html , isn't a calculator.

Another edit: seeing as how the dual bay res is sold out, I'm think of switching the 2xmicro to 2xhttp://www.dangerden.com/store/danger-den-single-5-1-4-bay-reservoir.html - it takes the same space as the dual bay, but this way the colder CPU loop isn't warmed up by the water in the warmer GPU loop.
 
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Conumdrum

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
Looks like you did all your research, time to buy your stuff.

Heat
Noise
Making it fit
Budget

Thats it. Can't beat physics or your wallet, or your noise tolerance, or making it fit. Balance it all. If not right, buy more stuff, it's a hobby right?

You can buy higher speed fans and use a fan controller like most of us to turn them down when the heatload is less. Your set, buy stuff.
 
OP
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Zithras

Registered
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Jun 1, 2008
Argh just when I think I'm out of questions :(

What's a good 5.25 bay reservoir? I need 2 of them. I was going to get the Danger Den ones, but every review I've read seems to say it doesn't bleed out air well, and has a fairly loud 'running water' sound.

Also, I completely forgot about filling. Do these come with fillports? Will I need to add on any valves/tubing/accessories in order to fill the system?

If there aren't really any good bay reservoirs, it's back to 2x MicroRes I suppose.

What's the best way to fill/empty my planned system? (I assume I can fill the system through the reservoir ports on the top. Emptying is trickier...do the pumps have some kind of emptying port on them? Turning the whole case upside down to try and empty it through the res seems like a pain)

Note: when recommending a res, please also tell how I should mount it (if it's not a bay res) and any other stuff I need to buy to fill/empty it)

Edit: I know Koolance makes reserviors that attach right onto the pump - has anyone got any experience with these? The site doesn't mention them fitting 655 pumps though :(
 
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Conumdrum

Member
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Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
OP
Z

Zithras

Registered
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Or this, I have two of these, very nice. Not a bay res, but a real quality add to a great pump.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/xsacreforlad.html

Wooow! These look perfect! Are you sure they'll fit the 655 pump (the site says they're for 355's - not sure if the tops are the same or not...

How do these fill/empty? I'm guessing they fill from the top and empty from the side, with the bottom being a pump input? I'm missing the 4th valve though (i.e. reservoir input) so I think I must have something wrong here...do I need to install some sort of on/off valve to fill or empty them, or do they come with them included?

How do they mount in the case? I was going to just stick the pumps on a block of gelstuff (not anchored that way, but very quiet...these look like they need additional mounting though...what do you recommend?

If these will work, I think I'm set (if not, then will go with the dual bay res).

Edit: On a completely separate note, Conumdrum, do you live on the forums? Every time I post I get a helpful reply from you in a few minutes :D
 
OP
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Zithras

Registered
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Yeah, but the 355s are noisier. (afaik). So those reservoir towers won't fir a 655? *cries*
 

Conumdrum

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
Have you had both pumps and listened to them? I have. In fact I liked my 655 on 4 instead of 5 because I thought I could hear it on an open tech station 5 ft away. Noise is relative. I never could hear my pumps with the TV on low, or people talking, or over my few quiet fans.

So yea, it might be a bit differnt noise or level, but it's very subjective.