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Newbie Cooling Help

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DesertSoft

New Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Location
Los Angeles, CA
First of all, this is a great site. I am a newbie to OC'ing and this site has been a great help. Way to go overclockers.com!!!

I just got a P4 2.6c w/ a Asus p4p800 Deluxe MB. I currently have it OC'ed to 3.1.

My CPU temp temp under idle ranges from 29 - 32 C. When I put it under load the CPU jumps up to 48 - 52 C. Is this normal? I really don't like the huge increase. I hear a lot of people talking about a 5 - 10 degree increase, not a 20.

I am using the stock HSF that came with the processor. I got rid of the thermal pad and applied Arctic Silver 5. I have one 80 mm intake fan & one 80 mm outtake fan. I also cut away the gridding for the intake fan mount to try to increase airflow. The fans are CoolerMaster fans. They have a RPM of 2500 and a CFM of 32.11. I was thinking about getting some better fans that will give me more CFM. Any ideas?

If I take my case side off I see about a 4-degree drop in temperature. Does this mean I need better outtake fans?

How about PCI slot blowers? Are these worth the trouble?

Thanks for the help. I am just a newbie trying to be like the big boys!!!!
 

DoubleJ8

Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2003
Location
Bremerton, WA
First of all, get rid of that stock HSF and get a Thermalright SP-94.

How's your tolorance for noise? If you can take the sound, I'd go with Thermaltake Smart Fan II's all the way around. That would be pretty loud though. Are you into modding your case? If so, get a 92mm or 120mm intake fan. The 80mm exhaust should be enough IMO. I'm running 3 80mm intake fans AT THE TOP OF MY CASE and 1 80mm fan at the rear (Soon to change). I have a case temp of 22C on average. My CPU idle is 28C and under load is 39C. I have an AMD 2700+ at 2172Mhz. I also have the Thermalright SLK-900a with an Enermax adjustable 92mm fan blowing on it.
 

squeakygeek

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2003
Location
University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign
More intake and outtake would definately be an improvement. As for PCI slot blowers, it really depends on your video card. If you are getting a nasty hotspot under your video card, I would reccomend getting a slot cooler. If you decide to get one, I give a couple slots of space between it and your video card if you can spare the room. This will assure that it is not interfering with your video card's heatsink/fan.
 

clocker2

Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Location
Mile High
While getting a better HSF is a blessing, it come at a price.
It will certainly be more efficient drawing heat from your chip (which is a good thing), but it will also be more efficient a dumping that heat into your case.
It's a vicious circle.
I think that your delta value from idle to load is high, and to me that indicates poor case ventilation.
I would recommend that you fix your case cooling first, THEN upgrade the HSF.
You might want to check out the "Modding a XaserIII" topic to get some ideas about various air cooling methods.
 

mccoyn

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2003
Location
Michigan, USA
clocker2 said:
While getting a better HSF is a blessing, it come at a price.
It will certainly be more efficient drawing heat from your chip (which is a good thing), but it will also be more efficient a dumping that heat into your case.
It's a vicious circle.

Thats wrong. If your processor is generating 100 W of heat it will dump that much into the case no matter how effecient the heatsink is. Its just a matter of whether your heatsink can dump 100 W of heat over a 10 C difference or if it needs something higher like a 20 C difference to push that much heat.
 
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DesertSoft

New Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Thanks for the help. It sounds like I need more or better fans to get rid of that heat. I am not sure how much I want to modify my case...trying to do the best with what I have.

I am using an Antec LanBoy case.

Question - Do they make fans that fit in 5.25 drive bay slots. Maybe I can use the top two for a fan. Any ideas?
 
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DesertSoft

New Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Location
Los Angeles, CA
I have done some more research regarding the LAN Boy case & it looks like a lot of people said the ventaliation is not very good. Does anyone else agree with this?

It looks like it would not be that hard to install a fan or two on the side, does anyone have any recommendations on the size?
 

archilochus

THE Senior FANMAN
Joined
Sep 26, 2003
Location
Houston,TX-USA
It was my understanding that the Atec Lanboy has 120mm fan front and rear. Valk has one of these,but its only 3weeks old.
Do you have a pic or a link to the same model case you have?
I'm providing you with a link to a thread that Clocker mentioned.
This should give you some ideas to work with. THE FANMAN:cool:

CASE MOD LINK :D
 

Exempt

Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Location
Los Angeles, Palo Alto, Lake Tahoe
Vinny has the right idea, if you absolutely want to stick with what you got, and stay on the "safe side" of things, you can always lap your heatsink (not he CPU in this matter). Start with 220 grit sandpaper on a flat surface and work your way to a very fine grit like 600 at the LEAST, preferably 1200. then buff it up with a buffer wheel, or if you dont have access to that then use a drill with a buffing attachment wheel but I recommend you use extreme caution with the drill method...actually either method..lol
 

rogerdugans

Linux challenged Senior, not that it stops me...
Joined
Dec 28, 2001
Location
Corner of No and Where
Welcome to the Forums and the Joys (Insanity!) of Overclocking! :)
For another great resource on cooling, check out one of the stickies we have here- a good write up on lapping a heatsink is in there as well as a bunch more useful information.
One of our own Cooling Stickies

As for your specific questions-
You gave us information to determine two things:
Your case cooling is decent but could be improved.
Your temp change from idle to load is too high, period.

*Case cooling

The goal in case cooling is to get temps right about ambient level, but this is rarely achieved. A good way to test this is to take the side panel off, as you did, and check temps: less than 1c drop is excellent, 2 or 3c is not bad and 4 or 5 is ok but could be improved. If it gets above 10c difference then you have a serious flaw in your cooling!
Your case cooling could be improved, but it does not seem to be the major heat problem you have....

*Idle/load temps
Idle temps really tell us little about how good/bad a cooling scheme is, especially with modern cpus and motherboards. A stock heatsink and fan or bad cooling scheme can produce pretty decent idle temps but completely drop the ball when the cpu is at 100% load!
The one piece of info an idle temp does give us is something to form a relationship with load temps: a decent cooling scheme will have less than 12c or so rise and a very good one may be on the order of 6 or 8c.
Now the one piece of info missing is what the difference in case temp is idle and load: if the case temp rises just as much as cpu temp then your case cooling is definitely in need of work, although that does not seem to be likely....
My guess is that your case temp only goes up a degree or three......
If I am right then your heatsink needs to at least be thoroughly cleaned (you may have thermal pad left in the metal pores if you didn't clean and lap it) and reinstalled with a fresh application of compound. Lapping it can also help quite a bit even if it is clean: most heatsinks are not really very flat and that reduces performance considerably!

Personally, I do NOT recommend polishing a heatsink after lapping in any way, with any tool: if you want that "polished look" go all the way to a 2000 grit wet sandpaper. I believe that polishing is more likely to round the base of the heatsink again than anything else, and that is counter-productive.

*The slot blower question was answered and I agree completely: they are only useful if you have a hot spot in that area, and they may interfere with video card cooling so be cautious about them. Many people do have good succes with them though, although I have never seen the need myself.

The last point I have to make is:
computer temperature comparisons are notoriously inaccurate. Two computers with the exact same components may show very different temps even when right next to each other! Always remember that any comparison to any other system is about as unreliable as you can get.
Monitoring system temps IS important because it can help determine headroom for overclocking and even more importantly, when you have a problem with the system.
 

Axis

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2003
Location
Lakewood Ohio
ambient case temp is huge bro. try to keep the same amount of intake as you have exhaust fans... equal each way.
 
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DesertSoft

New Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Well, I did some modding today. “Screw the safe side.”

Here is a link to case I own. Model Antec LanBoy

http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage...26-05.JPG/11-129-126-01.JPG/11-129-126-11.JPG

I purchased a 120 mm fan & was hoping to install it as an intake but it would not fit without removing the hard drive bay slots. So I went ahead and removed the 80 mm fan from the back of the case and cut a hole large enough for the 120 mm fan. Heck of a lot more air coming out of the case.

I then went ahead and installed the 2nd 80 mm fan as an intake.

Just for fun...I set the CPU speed back to 2.6 to see the temps at idle and load. At idle the temps are now 26 C & at full load 44 C.

Overclocked to 3.1 GHz the idle temp is 28 C & full load is 49 C. I measured my case temp change from idle to full load. The case temp didn’t even change. Not quite sure if I measured this correctly. I have one of those Oregon Scientific Wireless Thermometer, so I through it in my case and monitor the change during the test.

I hate that my temp raises so much from idle to full load. As all of you said, perhaps my heat sink isn’t as clean as I think it is. I like the lapping idea. I was thinking about buying a new hsf but maybe I will try this first.

Thanks for the help.
 

archilochus

THE Senior FANMAN
Joined
Sep 26, 2003
Location
Houston,TX-USA
Desertsoft,Thanks for the link on your case.It's different than the Antec Lanboy than Valk has.His is the newer style case.They now come with 2 - 120mm fans.Dont forget you can draw intake air from the floor of the case also,as Clocker has done. Did you check the mod thread I linked you to?After you get your case temps straight and lap your HS,and test.If you still need a little better CPU temp try the SP-94 HS from Thermalright.It made a big diff. in my temps compared to the stock aluminum HS. THE FANMAN:cool:
 

rogerdugans

Linux challenged Senior, not that it stops me...
Joined
Dec 28, 2001
Location
Corner of No and Where
OEM heatsinks are not great as a rule- they work and can even allow some overclocking, but they leave plenty of room for improvement.

I'll make a very rough guess (since I have no P4s!) that your cpu load temp will drop 3 or 4 c with a good lapping though! Maybe more.

I have used oem sinks a number of times and have a couple of tricks that work for me:
Start with 400 or so grit and step your way up to 1200 or 1500 grit.
Many people say there is no added benefit above 600 grit: for a good (aftermarket) heatsink I tend to agree, but for the oem ones.........keep going!
When I was messing with the oem sinks I invariably got at least 1c lower temps by going up to 1200 or more grit.
And sometimes I dropped 2 or 3c.

Again, just lap the sink, don't use any power tools or polishing compounds afterwords as they are likey to make things worse, not better.
 
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DesertSoft

New Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Location
Los Angeles, CA
So where do I get the sandpaper? Went to Home Depot today and they only had 600 grit.

Any suggestions? I was hoping to start having fun tonight!!!!

Thanks!!
 

rogerdugans

Linux challenged Senior, not that it stops me...
Joined
Dec 28, 2001
Location
Corner of No and Where
Wet dry sandpaper in fine grits is used for hobby, automotive and fine detail painting: many auto parts stores will have some, better hardware stores will also.

Home depot may but it would probably NOT be where you would expect......you'd have to ask someone who works there perhaps.