• Welcome to Overclockers Forums! Join us to reply in threads, receive reduced ads, and to customize your site experience!

No more Windows 7 and 8 individual Windows updates starting October 2016 (!!)

Overclockers is supported by our readers. When you click a link to make a purchase, we may earn a commission. Learn More.

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
In two short months, only a single bundled Critical Security update file will be available. You will no longer be able to UNCHECK a single buggy individual Windows 7/8 update.

• You will no longer be able to reject an unneeded hardware update, for example an unneeded video card update which for some inexplicable reason is labeled as a critical security update, even though your machine's stability is more important than being able to run the latest version of a game, which is and never will be installed on it because it's not a gaming rig. In other words, there is nothing "critical" about that update other than potentially destabilizing your system. But it will be force-installed on your Windows 7/8 machine, unless you don't want to get any updates on it at all.

• You will no longer be able to reject installing a nag, like for example the infamous Update to Windows 10 now! nag which in no way can be justified as a critical update installation on a machine legally licensed to run until 2023 - which is seven (!) years from now.


You will have a Microsoft choice of all or nothing, Windows 10-style.
Not really a choice, since we need legitimate Windows Critical Updates but they will all be installed (or not) as a single file, which will include everything from Microsoft nags to forced hardware driver updates to a known single buggy update, which you know will destabilize your machine but will no longer be able to deselect it.

If stability is one and only goal of your machine, then those hardware driver updates will statistically reduce chances that your system will continue to be as stable because from
Windows 9x to Windows 10, if there was one critical rule about Windows Update page, it was to never, ever allow Windows Update to mess with working hardware drivers.

There is nothing we can do.


Proof:
https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com...ervicing-model-for-windows-7-and-windows-8-1/
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Linux is not going to happen because it would have already by now if it were a realistic alternative.
The only new thing on the horizon is Google (Google Fuchsia was in the news just this morning) but Google is not better than Microsoft when it comes to things we dislike about MS. It may be worse.

Just theorizing, but if Updates can still be uninstalled, perhaps uninstalling the ones we don't want individually *before* rebooting would be an option of adapting to this?
 

Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
I'd learn Linux first. Apple's hardware was locked down like M$' software last time I checked (and it's been a long time, so don't bet your rent money just yet). Is Fuchsia open source? That would make it quite the attractive candidate if it were possible to correct the privacy mistakes Google is so fond of. I can imagine a whole slew of fixes for that being available.
 

Mpegger

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Lets not forget, IE11 will be forced upon your system again, even if you already uninstalled it.

I'm gonna see if the WSUS offline update method still allows to pick and choose what updates to install. This is seriously BS and just one more nail in the coffin in my eyes for MS. I tried 10, going back to 7. Now this news makes me want to start trying out alternatives. I'm actually going to get a R.Pi to play around with running a NTP and either a DNS or Pi-Hole on it, so I might as well start getting used to Linux like systems.

If it wasn't for gaming, I would have dumped Windows long ago.
 

Audioaficionado

Sparkomatic Moderator
Joined
Apr 29, 2002
I wouldn't worry about this. Someone will figure out how to break open the package and remove the garbage so people will have a choice.
 

Audioaficionado

Sparkomatic Moderator
Joined
Apr 29, 2002
Linux is an option to replace windows. Just most people will take whatever OS is on their computers. Vast majority just want to turn it on and have it work. Gamers gotta game. If you want full control in windows or at least the control we used to have, forgetaboutit. Those days are passing into history. Ubuntu or Mint Linux version are easy to set up and it works out of the box, but if you know how to work under the hood, you can make it yours just as much as any distro.
 

Mr Alpha

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2006
I'm not sure I entirely agree with OP's reading of the blog post.

Yes, Microsoft is switching to bundling updates and that means you won't be able to to opt out of a single problematic security update. That much I agree with. But it is not at all clear to me that the monthly roll-ups with include all that other stuff. According to the linked blog post they will consist of security and reliability updates.

The blog post doesn't say anything about driver updates. Considering driver updates will be very device specific it doesn't seem at all obvious to me that Microsoft would package them into a bundle that goes out to everyone.

Nor does it say anything about nag-ware and such. It is not impossible that Microsoft would stick something like into a roll-up but the blog post does not offer any evidence of anything like that.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Thank you for posting. Yours and most people's initial understanding of the the term 'critical update' is similar.

I assume we were also equally surprised then when Windows 10 update nags ended up slipped into the Critical Update section?
This indicates similar nag can also be slipped in there in the future, does it not?

When I started seeing driver updates being slipped into the Critical Update section, I thought wow something is critically wrong with existing perfectly functioning drivers?
And when I checked - I found nothing whatsoever 'critical' about it - for a non-gaming rig. A game-specific fix is certainly not a critical update for a non-gaming rig, correct?

It has been widely agreed on the forums for the past 15 years that Windows Update hardware driver updates carry with them a *significant* risk of system instability. So many of us have experienced this first hand that ongoing conclusion was that Windows Update should never under any circumstances be used for anything other than Windows OS (software) updates.

So unless there is something that says there was a change - that Microsoft will stop including unnecessary hardware updates and unnecessary [by every definition of the word] nag updates as Critical Updates - how can we not be concerned that this trend will not continue? Only this time with no option to UNCHECK these non-critical updates that have been slipped in there [obviously] for reasons other than security?
 
Last edited:

Culbrelai

Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
I used to dislike Linux but It's looking like a warm blanket more and more every day. They're really pushing hard to get people onto Windows 10.

I don't have a particular issue with most of Windows 10, although the idea behind many of its components bothers me thus I won't use it until something changes or I am 'forced' to use it due to some must have game or something.

Problems with Windows 10:

Cortanta integrated into search even if you disable her, her background process still runs. Search is also still crappy and misses things (Where's Rover?)
Unable to disable telemetry.
Unable to selectively choose updates even on W10 Pro
Windows 10 comes bundled with a bunch of bloatware in the form of Metro apps (Get Office, Get Skype, etc)
ScamDrive is integrated, (though disable-able with GPEDIT.MSC)

There's more but I'm too filled with rage atm.
 
Last edited:

Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Meh. At least we are still getting updates to Win 7.
That's how I'm seeing it.

I've had maybe 2 bad windows updates in the past 4 years. Not too shabby.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Problems with Windows 10:

Cortanta integrated into search even if you disable her, her background process still runs. Search is also still crappy and misses things (Where's Rover?)
Unable to disable telemetry.
Unable to selectively choose updates even on W10 Pro
Windows 10 comes bundled with a bunch of bloatware in the form of Metro apps (Get Office, Get Skype, etc)
ScamDrive is integrated, (though disable-able with GPEDIT.MSC)

There's more but I'm too filled with rage atm.

All we can do is accept the new Windows 10 Business model and point out that some of the things actually can be addressed, if people ask. So, without going into "why do I even have to..." - IF you want to, you can

• Disable Cortana, lots of Circus Hoops to jump through but last time I checked, not impossible.
• Telemetry - Up until Anniversary Update that was also possible. They have disabled GPEDIT way to do it, so the question is do other ways work, I think they do, I am surprised no one posted about this yet, when I get around to it, I will look into new ways to disable Telemetry since Microsoft blocked certain GPEDIT options, as of Anniversary Update, such as at least one specific Telemetry option.
• I think *after* installing a Windows update, you may be able to go in and uninstall it and block it. At least two circus hoops for that one, but it may be possible still to end up with post install blockage.
• Bloatware - Use Classic Shell, no advertisements in Start Menu, no Metro App issues, I think there is still very much a way to block bloatware, and even uninstall it. Heck if you are logged in with a real Administrator acct (not acct with Admin privileges) - No Windows Store App can even be executed under Windows 10, let alone bother you.



I want to say something else. I was at Microcenter last week. For those of you that don't know, it is a major Brick & Mortar Computer store.
So I'm not talking about internet only store, this store is where average people from the neighborhood walk in and buy computer parts, desktops and laptops. Not just enthusiasts, since the biggest enthusiast buy their stuff online. Microcenter is the biggest computer store in town.


So... you buy something at Microcenter and they give you a little four page specials ad, yours with every receipt.
So not the big multi-page ad that they also have, but just a quick little thing that *every customer* gets with receipt.


So I am looking at it right now. Get this.
Page 1. Desktops for Home. Six Windows 10 rigs on sale.
And right underneath (on page one!)
12 (twelve) Desktops of which the first two are
Windows 10 Professional (Includes downgrade to to Win 7 Pro)

and then the next 8 Desktops are listed as Windows 7 Pro (Free Upgrade to Win10 Pro)

Let's be clear this is an August 2016 flier.



What does that tell you? This is a Brick & Mortar Computer store. On page two it says System Builder Software and it lists two equal ad spaces for Windows 10 Pro $139.99 and Windows 7 Pro SP1 $139.99.


How is this not evidence that something is very wrong with Windows 10!?!

I think Windows 10 is like Silicon Valley series on HBO where the guy gives his Beta to fellow engineers and they ALL say it's the best thing since sliced bread but when they give it to "regular" people, things are much different, because Computer Guys, IT guys, are so DISCONNECTED from the real world, that they refuse to acknowledge what is in plain sight in this Microcenter ad as far as proof as to what people really want.


Personally I think much of it goes back to the Start Menu, more so than other things...
I think if Classic Shell was there on Day 1 of Windows 8.0 Metro, it would have mortally wounded Windows 7 percentage of users statistics.
And it would have been easier to make the Windows 10 switch.
But maybe Microsoft all along wanted to use the Start Menu for Ad space and that's why they did what they did? I don't know.
But come 2023, they will win because there will be nothing else any more and we will all be using Windows 10 then...
 

Audioaficionado

Sparkomatic Moderator
Joined
Apr 29, 2002
But come 2023, they will win because there will be nothing else any more and we will all be using Windows 10 then...
:rofl:

Plenty of time to get your Linux foo up and ready. Don't be sad Microsoft is joining the Apple model. Just figure out your exit strategy.
 

Mpegger

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
All we can do is accept the new Windows 10 Business model and point out that some of the things actually can be addressed, if people ask. So, without going into "why do I even have to..." - IF you want to, you can

A MS rep has made it pretty clear in a interview some months ago, that they do not take into account what the general populace wants of Windows 10, only the corporate world has a real say in the direction Windows 10 takes. The normal users are nothing more then Beta testers for the Corporations, and have to either take what MS gives, or leave it. So ask all you want, but unless your a huge company that spends millions every year on MS subscriptions, MS will simply ignore your, and every other general users requests in regards to changes to Windows 10.

In other words, unless it broke something, MS will just keep going in their own direction and in response to corporate needs.
 

Culbrelai

Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
A MS rep has made it pretty clear in a interview some months ago, that they do not take into account what the general populace wants of Windows 10, only the corporate world has a real say in the direction Windows 10 takes. The normal users are nothing more then Beta testers for the Corporations, and have to either take what MS gives, or leave it. So ask all you want, but unless your a huge company that spends millions every year on MS subscriptions, MS will simply ignore your, and every other general users requests in regards to changes to Windows 10.

In other words, unless it broke something, MS will just keep going in their own direction and in response to corporate needs.

Idk how true that is, Windows ME, Vista and 8 all seemed to flop based on consumer complaints:

ME: Consumer focused OS, instability among other things.
Vitsta: UAC, bad compatibility with many XP programs, high system requirements.
Windows 8: Start menu everyone hated, crappy metro apps that are merely dumbed down versions of websites/desktop programs, increasing privacy concerns.
 

Audioaficionado

Sparkomatic Moderator
Joined
Apr 29, 2002
Corporations don't buy anything they can't turn around to make profits. MS does pay attention to what the consumers say.