• Welcome to Overclockers Forums! Join us to reply in threads, receive reduced ads, and to customize your site experience!

Non-conductive fluid?

Overclockers is supported by our readers. When you click a link to make a purchase, we may earn a commission. Learn More.

ITAngel

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Location
Wyoming
Hi guys, I am about to start a project water cooling my system and was wondering about non-conductive fluids. I currently have two big bottles of Mayhems Pastel Red and I am torn between using that which I want for the dye color in my rig or doing something crazy like Distilled Water and Anti-freeze coolant. I am worry that will be to though for my cooling parts. Any ideas or advice?

Thansk!
 

Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Why not just stick with the best?
Distilled water + PNH Nuke or silver kill coil?

Dyes are horrible for water cooling. At the very least it requires a tear down to clean every part every few months.
Use coloured tubing instead.

To answer the question though, water + antifreeze is really only useful for sub-zero temps. If you are planning on doing a volenti cooler or bong cooler to get ambient temps, ONLY use distilled water + silver kill coil because the water evaporates and you don't want to breath in anti-freeze, dye or PNH Nuke.

Avoid alcohol with acrylic AT ALL COSTS! It will CRACK the acrylic and cause leaks!
 
Last edited:
OP
ITAngel

ITAngel

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Location
Wyoming
Why not just stick with the best?
Distilled water + PT Nuke or silver kill coil?

Dyes are horrible for water cooling. At the very least it requires a tear down to clean every part every few months.
Use coloured tubing instead.

To answer the question though, water + antifreeze is really only useful for sub-zero temps. If you are planning on doing a volenti cooler or bong cooler to get ambient temps, ONLY use distilled water + silver kill coil because the water evaporates and you don't want to breath in anti-freeze, dye or PT Nuke.

Avoid alcohol with acrylic AT ALL COSTS! It will CRACK the acrylic and cause leaks!

Is see, but The Mayhems stuff I have suppose to be really good not that stuff that clug your system. Suppose to not need any cleaning for a year or two.

https://mayhems.co.uk/coolants/pastel-coolants/pastel-pre-mix-1ltr/red-1ltr/
 

Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Is see, but The Mayhems stuff I have suppose to be really good not that stuff that clug your system. Suppose to not need any cleaning for a year or two.

https://mayhems.co.uk/coolants/pastel-coolants/pastel-pre-mix-1ltr/red-1ltr/

I'd tear it down myself after 6 months or so. That's just what I would do.
I added a lot of Feser UV Blue last week... It has again faded away to a light blue. I already know from past experiences where the dye ends up. It' stuck clogging up the rad.

Of course, that's just one brand, I've never used Mayhems before.
 
OP
ITAngel

ITAngel

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Location
Wyoming
I'd tear it down myself after 6 months or so. That's just what I would do.
I added a lot of Feser UV Blue last week... It has again faded away to a light blue. I already know from past experiences where the dye ends up. It' stuck clogging up the rad.

Of course, that's just one brand, I've never used Mayhems before.

I see, well that is good to know and I will keep that in mind as this is my first attemp to water cooling with real hardware cooling parts. hahaha :attn:
 

ssjwizard

Has slightly less legible writing than Thideras
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Meyhems dyes are superior, but I personally wouldn't use it. Colored tubing is a safer option IMO. Just about time to tear down and replace all of my hoses as I noticed that the ends of my hose have become permanently flared.
 

Joe88

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
water based dyes should not clog components
I think the problem is algae growth and that is clogging components, then the dye in the water is dying the algae and people blame the dye
it is possible the biocide could be reacting to the water dye and causing the fall out but its uncommon

just avoid pre-mixed colored coolants, and this includes the solid colors too
jayztwocents just did a recent video on it, and really all you need is a couple drops with distilled water
 

Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
water based dyes should not clog components
I think the problem is algae growth and that is clogging components, then the dye in the water is dying the algae and people blame the dye
it is possible the biocide could be reacting to the water dye and causing the fall out but its uncommon

just avoid pre-mixed colored coolants, and this includes the solid colors too
jayztwocents just did a recent video on it, and really all you need is a couple drops with distilled water

Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you there.
I thought it was plasticizer that was dyed from the dye clogging up the blocks, so I installed PEX tubing to be plasticizer free to see if it was plasitcizer the whole time... It was not the plasticizer.

My CPU block was clear (other than bits of PEX and the copper being corroded) but all the dye settled in my rad. I had to do the rad dance 5 times before the water was coming out clear. So if it can settle in the rad it can eventually settle in the block...

Almost all dye is powered based so it makes sense that it would eventually separate from all the twists and bend plus the pump's centrifugal force as well.

Not trying to attack you, just stating my findings. If you want trouble free watercooling and tear down every year vs every few months, use coloured tubing :)
 
OP
ITAngel

ITAngel

Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Location
Wyoming
^ This ^

Have been water cooling since we had to make our own blocks

Distilled water/PT Nuke FTW ............. :thup:

What about Distilled Water, Auto Anti-freeze and Hyperlube Coolant? Seems to be one of the best methods that most people run for years without getting dirty or breaking down or anything like that.
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Antifreeze is only needed if you're mixing metals or chilling the liquid.
 

Flat-6

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Location
Australia
Antifreeze is only needed if you're mixing metals or chilling the liquid.

Generally most loops contain a variety of metals eg: copper, nickel, brass, tin, lead etc etc etc.... adding silver coils just adds to the mix of metals and really is of not much use as a biocide in our loops.

Most people don't even realise that copper on its own is a good biocide...!

Many car coolants are pretty much superior when it comes to corrosion protection and prevention of algae growth etc. A lot of people use them in loops - not specifically for their operating temp range but predominately for corrosion protection.

You do not see people posting about having gummed up blocks or dyes breaking down when they run auto based coolants and they have been used since the very beginning of PC water cooling.

Some commercial PC coolants are really just based off auto coolant formulations anyway...
 
Last edited:

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Generally most loops contain a variety of metals eg: copper, nickel, brass, tin, lead etc etc etc.... adding silver coils just adds to the mix of metals and really is of not much use as a biocide in our loops.

Most people don't even realise that copper on its own is a good biocide...!

Many car coolants are pretty much superior when it comes to corrosion protect and prevention of algae etc. A lot of people use them in loops - not specifically for their operating temp range but predominately for corrosion protection.

You do not see people posting about having gummed up blocks or dyes breaking down when they run auto based coolants...

I should have specified that by mixing metals I mean aluminum and copper. Brass/copper play nicely together.
 

Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
What about Distilled Water, Auto Anti-freeze and Hyperlube Coolant? Seems to be one of the best methods that most people run for years without getting dirty or breaking down or anything like that.
Keep it simple...

No real need for anything else other than distilled water and a biocide. Be it silver coil or PT Nuke...
 

ssjwizard

Has slightly less legible writing than Thideras
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Most people don't even realise that copper on its own is a good biocide...!

Interesting you should mention that because PT nuke or Dead Water are both just copper sulfate so that should say something. Our systems operate on low deltas, the ceramic bearing pumps are designed to operate without lubrication, and the o-rings used by high quality companies do not require replenishing either within a reasonable amount of time. Running pure H2O with a couple drops of CU3SO provides the best reliability and superior temperatures. Is it a difference in temps worth writing a novel about no, but it will yield the lowest temps a particular configuration can achieve.

In the end its all up to the users preference. Ive been doing WC since I used to mill blocks in my garage and sell them on these very forums, and many things have been proven to work consistently over the years and other to cause issues in some cases. Me Im going for Occams razor answer with this one. Pure water is the easiest and more reliable solution.

If you want to use Dye do it its your PC personally I wouldn't. Dye fades, dye clogs, dye while its pretty can be matched 90% in effect with colored tubing which will last for YEARS. I have the same tube in my system that I did when I first built the gorilla back in 2013 I believe it was and its still going strong. Due to the temps that I push my system to on occasion some of it has stretched and reformed, but its still providing a tight leak free seal without clamps 3 years later.
 

Mandrake4565

Mr. Clean Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
No reason to try to re invent the wheel, I agree with the gents above. Just run distilled water and silver coil and or some sort of biocide such as Pt nuke or I and H dead water. Also just to give you an idea of what running dyes can do see below.
UsingDyes.PNG usingdyes2.PNG
 

Flat-6

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Location
Australia
I should have specified that by mixing metals I mean aluminum and copper. Brass/copper play nicely together.


Yes brass/copper is fine but silver is quite a distance away on the galvanic index.

There are numerous examples online where people have run straight distilled with silver yet have experienced corrosion because they have not run any anti-corrosive additives.

Our rads for instance can be a conglomeration of metals especially since we don't even know the purity of the copper used (who knows what other metals are mixed with the actual base copper material) and also the makeup of the solder that is used in the rads will add to our metal mix.

EK also advise against using any form of copper sulphate type based biocide due to reactions it can have with nickel.


The following is a fairly recent informative post from Shoggy (Aquacomputer) who has a lot more credence in the community than I have... orig posted on OCN forums on a discussion regarding silver coils etc:

Within the electrochemical series silver is placed quite high. In most loops it will be the noblest metal. Compared against non-noble metals like nickel it has a quite high corrosion potential. Even copper can corrode if you have silver in a loop.

Nickel is often used as plating because of its passivation capabilities. The problem is this passivation will not be perfect nor is it durable for an infinite period. Distilled water is slightly acid and "accelerates" the corrosion process of the nickel plating. With just copper as noblest metal inside the loop it can be possible to see some slight corrosion effects in the long run. Silver on the other side as the even more noble corrosion partner will force this effect further. So using just distilled water with silver will cause problems sooner or later - I have seen it often enough...

The silver coil can tarnish because it is quite reactive and likes to form chemical bondings. Residues from the production process of several components bring in enough different stuff into your loop. The silver will not corrode but passivate which can be seen as a good thing because it will decrease its corrosive capabilities.

The antimicrobial characteristics of silver that are always advertised as its killer feature (pun *g*) are not very relevant for the real world. Almost funny: it releases these ions the best when it corrodes other metals :rolleyes: In my opinion biological infestation is a side issue. If you work clean there is no reason to worry about this and in systems with a noticeable infestation it is very questionable if silver would have helped to prevent this. By the way, copper has a similar antimicrobial effect; copper ions are toxic for most microorganisms. Make up you own mind but silver has no real advantage but some people out there know how to advertise it like it is the Holy Grail. Here in Germany and I guess in most other European countries these silver coils are almost unknown.

Like some already recommend it is a good idea to use a fluid that contains corrosion inhibitors. They apply a passivation layer to the surface of the metals BUT there are also some small disadvantages. These corrosion inhibitors have a limited duration and will become ineffective by time. The higher the corrosion potential inside the loop, the more corrosion inhibitors are used to protect the metals. So the fluid should be exchanged on a regular basis. Another possible problem is the fact that these corrosion inhibitors are normally dissolved in ethylene glycol which acts as solvent for the plasticizer used in many tubes. The ethylene glycol itself can be also a problem when combined with low quality acrylic glass. There are some types out there that will easily crack from this stuff and the really bad thing is there have been companies using this stuff - luckily most of these products are gone just because of these problems and massive amounts of entitled complaints.

We work with Plexiglas (a trademark for acrylic glass with very specific chemical properties) since the early days and still use it in many different of our products till today. Back in the old times time we recommend users to mix their own fluid with distilled water and ethylene glycol (antifreeze for cars) and our currently sold premixed fluid is still based on this. I can not remember any serious issues throughout the last years by using this but I remember several problems brought to us by customers that were only using distilled water with a silver coil. So, chemistry or no chemistry, just the experience from the last years tells me that using silver and distilled water without any additives against corrosion is a bad idea.

Just my two cents on this topic.
 
Last edited:

ssjwizard

Has slightly less legible writing than Thideras
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
EK also advise against using any form of copper sulphate type based biocide due to reactions it can have with nickel.

2 small notes on this: 1 the quantity of CU3SO required to maintain effective biocidal properties in water is extremely minute and would not substantially affect a full nickel plate, 2 nickel plating is stupid IMO. I will always be a supporter of solid copper parts.

To each their own though.
 

Flat-6

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Location
Australia
2 nickel plating is stupid IMO.

I gather it was only done to satisfy those that like to run plexi see-through blocks etc.

Agree that all copper is way easier to manage.

One other thing that I have found over my many years of water cooling is that the issue with dyes clogging staining etc does not seem prevalent with auto coolants.

I and many others have used red and green based auto coolants for some time and have yet to see a problem with whatever dyes they use actually precipitating out of their original solution. Yet some PC based coolant dyes have caused numerous issues albeit some have also been brought on by plasticiser problems as well.

Some of those 'pastel' type coolants seem very prone to issues such as clogging and changing colour and I tend to stay well clear of those.

BTW - If you want to run straight distilled - some people use Primochills 'Liquid Utopia' as an anti corrosion and ant biological additive that seems to work fine.