Not sure if SMP is for you? Here’s a cheap way to find out…

[Colin]

What I am about to suggest may seem a bit obtuse on a forum dedicated to screaming fast, overclocked CPUs. There are many good dual systems set up for CAD that are coming off three year leases. Dual PII and PIII systems can be had for a mere pittance. Often they come with high end graphics cards, SCSI RAID etc. Most often they sell for $200 to $300 dollars. Not only is this a good introduction to SMP, but also a cheap way into a backup machine in case your overclocked monster has a pelt flatulence, etc.

As an example, here’s my story. Last fall I was at a computer show and Nevin spotted the backside this seriously industrial looking case. The computer was an HP Kayak with dual PII 400s, 128 Megs of ECC RAM, two 4.3 Gig 10K Cheetahs, SCSI RAID, 32 meg Spitfire graphics card, CDR, decent on board sound and LAN, all for $200. The dealer had two of them. I wandered around the show for a while thinking about it. Nevin kept telling me that once you go dual, you won’t go back. After listening to him for about an hour, I went back and reluctantly bought the last remaining Kayak and another 512 Megs of RAM.

Fast forward to my home. After downloading all the HP tech docs, I configured the RAID array and loaded the OS and programs. I was not expecting my newfound toy to be such a treasure. It only took a couple hours of use for me to figure out I preferred using the “pokey” Kayak to my 1718 Mhz Athlon rig. No sputtering, no hiccups, everything was silky smooth. The stuff I do daily was much more pleasant on the dually. So for the price of a top of the line Athlon XP and a premium heatsink, I discovered the power and allure of SMP. May I suggest, if some of you have the inclination, that you do the same.

 

[h20link]

so can you guys recommend a good place online to look for some off lease duallies? I've never even seen a decent comp show advertised around here.....so maybe you guys got a link for us?

 

[donny_paycheck]

www.ebay.com

Tons of computers like Colin mentioned are available there, just off lease, factory reconditioned and very cheap. Get an older dual PII or PIII, maybe a Xeon version, and be amazed at what a pair of older CPUs are capable of.

 

[diehrd]

Nice recomdation !!

I went dual after I found converting home movies to SVCD took all the power my 1.4 @ 11x145 or 1.6 gig .As I was encoding I was unable to perform tasks like surfing , checking mail ect without a big wait .The system was so occupied with encoding anything else was a nightmare.

I built this rig and now encode and game at the same time so smoothly you cant even feel a difference from running the game by itself.

By the way the MPX Usb issue has been corrected peek over to 2cpu.com and read the review for the MPX revision !

 

[Ice_Gargoylle]

i shall also mention. I am in school for graphics. So went dual for that reason and the fact that this thing has to last past 5 years if not longer.
Also, my main point. The software I and probably most of you use, doesnt get anymore "intense" than it does. PS5 to PS7, there is no performance hit, its still the same program. So people can think about getting a cheap xeon system w/ 2mg each for work only that would most likely serve every purpose they need. A rock solid low cost dual system that will last a very long time. And then they could spend the BIG bucks on a awesome single cpu rig for evryting else.

 

[qed]

that this thing has to last past 5 years if not longer.
yeah that would be nice.. meanwhile back in the real world
put it this way if you want to be doing some textures in ps while you have a render going on in 3ds then .. well lets say a uni proc would struggle a bit..
..Q

 

[Ice_Gargoylle]

hehe,ya 5 years man, some of us dont have money to fling around, or we are married.

good point on multitasking, but i think some cheaper duals would do, thats the point of the thread. I would love to see how a couple xeons w/ 2mg caches compete.

 

[qed]

heh .. good job i'm not married or i'd still be on my storming (at the time) p166 .. personally i'd rather have 2 933's than 1 p4 2 gig as i can be more productive (do more things at once).. there were a number of articles concerning the Xeons a couple of months ago .. FWIR the athlons compared favourably due to their superior fp performance.. especially in max.. the rule of thumb seems to be if you're i/o intensive or need the stability.. go for the xeons.. if you need fp performance or you're on a budget and don't mind a few issues then go amd.. you could try the archives over at 2cpu.com if you're desperate!
hth
..Q
btw i hope my g/f ain't reading this

 

[DSTA]

I agree with every single word of your post and only wish that this

Most often they sell for $200 to $300 dollars.

was true for Europe . Not easy to find and they seem to sell for quite a bit higher (especially Xeons).

BTW, a word of warning: if you find a cheap workstation that has a dual proc mobo but no second CPU installed, make sure you can also find a second VRM somewhere.

Many of these machines have the voltage regulator as a separate plug-in component for the board. Don't even think of buying that as a spare from HP or Compaq if this is for a personal machine.

 

[Colin]

Good point on the VRMs and CPUs. I recommend opening up the case to verify everything is there before making a purchase. The folks I bought my Kayak from get HP, Compaq and Dell duallies on a regular basis. The PII & PIII boxes sell for between $200 & $300, with a guaranty that everything works. I have not asked them about Xeons but after looking at Donny's box, I think I will.

 

[phiber]

i have a question
i have a asus p2b-d and i have a p3 500 in ther...now wat numbers have to match on the other CPU in order for it to run SMP?

 

[donny_paycheck]

i have a question
i have a asus p2b-d and i have a p3 500 in ther...now wat numbers have to match on the other CPU in order for it to run SMP?

Supposedly none. Both CPUs will run the speed of the slowest processor and the steppings don't need to match either. I cannot guarantee this personally and it is obviously best to have matching speeds and stepping codes of the CPUs, but it isn't necessary.

 

[Ice_Gargoylle]

There is a myth that in order to run multiple CPU's, they need to be the same stepping and cache size. This is not true. According to Intel, you must have the same family of processor, and that's it. In fact, according to Intel, you can even mix MHz! They say that if you clock the processors to the clock speed of the slower CPU, you'll be fine. Mixing cache sizes is also OK by Intel, as long as you're not mixing 1MB or higher cache chips. You're best off if you have the same speed and cache processors, but if you have to try an SMP system you can use whatever is available.

i didnt write this

 

[IFMU]

Well I would like to say after reading everything I have and all that kinda thing... and of course me just wanting a new toy to play with... I am very curious as to where I could get one like you talk about earlier... however... around here.. there is no such thing as a good computer show.... and second... I cant stand ebay... Ive tried on there before and have never had any luck with it... Prolly just me... but it is me we are talkin about right this second!~! lol... now... any more suggestions as to where something like this might be available?
Someone also suggested looking to make sure you have all the components on the inside or something before you buy it... um.. well.. whatever it was you listed... lost me.... lol.. so how am I to know if its there if I dont know that its supposed to be there in the first place???

 

[Colin]

You might try calling around to the smaller local computer shops. For instance, there is a shop in the central California farm town of Porterville, run by guys that look like they could be members of ZZ Top. They come up with some amazing surplus stuff at fantastic prices and they are as honest as the day is long. Note, your not looking for a spiffy clean retail operation. More like one where the showroom looks more like a storeroom.

As for missing parts, take a look at the motherboard. You will be able to see if there is only one CPU or a missing VRM. If the rig is supposed to have a pair of SCSI drives, count the drives and look for the SCSI cable. The cable should terminate to the motherboard or a SCSI card in a PCI slot. It's not that difficult, you just want to be thorough.

You can also go to the manufacturer's Web Site and download the technical docs on the machine before you make a purchase. I have not done this with Dell or Compaq but I can tell you the information HP has on their older products is fantastic. Also, HP still provides no charge technical support on their old workstations.

 

[IFMU]

Missing VRM? um... huh?

 

[Colin]

VRM = Voltage regulation module. They usually are a slot-based board mounted above or beside the CPU. You can get an idea what the VRMs look like in my Kayak on page 27 of this PDF file.

Any reputable dealer will be willing to boot the machine for you. While there will most likely be no OS installed, the post screen should verify both CPUs and any SCSI contolers & drives that are present.

I believe often times the refurbishers are in such a hurry to get through a machine, that RAID arrays may not be configured properly. This was the case with my Kayak. It was setup with only one disk. The solution was to use the RAID configuration utility, reformat the drives and rebuild the array. All good fun if you are a hardware geek.

 

[donny_paycheck]

Here is a pair of 12V VRMs I have. These will work with anything from a Pentium Pro to a Pentium III, including Xeons. Coincidentally, I'm selling the pair for $20 in the classifieds.

 

[phiber]

every dual setup needs one of those things? VRmS?

 

[nihili]

Ok, so I'm thinking of trying this out, but I'm a bit confused by the processors.

I know that PIII is generally preferable to PII, but I don't get the whole Xeon thing. WHat's a Xeon? Would I be better with a PII Xeon or a regular PIII at the same clock speed? And why are Xeon prices all over the map on pricewatch?

I'd be happy if someone just wanted to post a link to some info as I'm sure this is a real newb question.

nihili