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NVIDIA screws over Hydra

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petteyg359

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Joined
Jul 31, 2004
http://www.techpowerup.com/107704/NVIDIA_Shuns_Lucid_Hydra.html

Big blow to Hydra, who knows what's gonna happen with them from here on out. The MSI Hydra board has been delayed indefinitely. While you can understand Nvidia's actions, it does feel kind of shady based on their recent history.

nVidia seems to be begging to have anti-trust lawsuits thrown at them... Purposefully breaking inter-operability has gotten Microsoft in trouble, and I doubt nVidia's legal team is near the size of Microsoft's :)
 

petteyg359

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Joined
Jul 31, 2004
Big opportunity for ATI here.

Who needs to spend $500+ on a GTX 295 when you can get 4x HD4770 (or 3x 4870 or 5770) for less or similar price? With near linear scalability, nVidia might be shooting themselves in the foot with a grenade launcher and end up losing the whole leg...
 

madhatter256

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Jul 5, 2008
Location
CFL
Who needs to spend $500+ on a GTX 295 when you can get 4x HD4770 (or 3x 4870 or 5770) for less or similar price? With near linear scalability, nVidia might be shooting themselves in the foot with a grenade launcher and end up losing the whole leg...

They done that long ago to intel and it's cascading down to everyone else they do business.
 

BossBorot

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
there is no proof anywhere in that article that it's nVidia fault for the delay of the msi board. Designing something like hydra cant be easy and therefore it could easily be manufacturing, design, or software bugs that are the reason for the delay not to mention msi as well.

Sure its easy to point the finger at nVidia for this but without proof? This seems like something that charlie would do
 

Shiggity

Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Location
Chicago, IL
Well it makes sense, Intel is a chief holder of Lucid Hydra technology. Intel and Nvidia don't exactly get along. They're trading punches, with the consumer taking most of the blows.

That's business I guess.
 

petteyg359

Likes Popcorn
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
there is no proof anywhere in that article that it's nVidia fault for the delay of the msi board. Designing something like hydra cant be easy and therefore it could easily be manufacturing, design, or software bugs that are the reason for the delay not to mention msi as well.

Sure its easy to point the finger at nVidia for this but without proof? This seems like something that charlie would do

See this post. nVidia has no qualms about using crippling their hardware in "non-approved" configurations.
 

ratbuddy

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
there is no proof anywhere in that article that it's nVidia fault for the delay of the msi board. Designing something like hydra cant be easy and therefore it could easily be manufacturing, design, or software bugs that are the reason for the delay not to mention msi as well.

Sure its easy to point the finger at nVidia for this but without proof? This seems like something that charlie would do

I think the accusation did come from Charlie. With no sources or proof, as usual. Someone could just as easily make up a headline like 'ATI screws over Hydra' and it would be just as accurate.
 

petteyg359

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Jul 31, 2004
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1093/6/ said:
Legit Reviews: NVIDIA recently disabled a feature in your Windows 7 drivers that would allow you to run an ATI Radeon HD series graphics card and then a secondary NVIDIA GeForce graphics card as a dedicated PhysX GPU. Why was this done and will we ever see support for this opened up down the road?

We don’t have the QA resource to test all of our GPUs acting in concert with an ATI GPU for rendering. In addition, we work hard to bring new technologies to market like PhysX and 3D Vision. The fact that our drivers only work with our cards should not be surprising to anyone.

Do you really think the statements in the OP linked article are such a huge jump, considering they've already stated the above? Yes, there are other explanations, which are probably more likely, considering that one could always just stick ATI cards in the board, but the assumption that it is caused by nVidia, while most likely untrue, isn't pulled out of thin air.
 

Neuromancer

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Oct 11, 2005
Location
Tau'ri
I believe Charlie had an article about this around the first of the month when Hydra was supposed to launch. The only fact checking (which let's face it nVidia would not admit to squashing it) was done with MSI, who said there were no problems with the platform and it was ready to go for launch on schedule (Nov 1st IIRC) inexplicably they are pushed to after Christmas, which is a big blow to any companies sales.

Charlie's "outrageous" articles posted before have ended up bearing fruit, it just takes awhile for the truth to come out and the information presented was over sensationalized, and presented with bias. (Which is common practice in most news reporting anymore unfortunately). The reason it was presented that way was to garner attention though, which it did. If he had written an article that claimed this in a non-sensational manner, there would be no discussion on this at all. We as news readers/viewers are the cause of this type of journalism. People do not pay attention to what matters anymore, make it big, or do not make it at all. :(

There is no doubt in my mind that all companies play hard ball to protect their bottom line, some just play harder than others, because they can. If AMD or ATi had the market share that Intel or nVidia had, they most likely would also partner up with OEMs or software developers to ensure that their products performed better than the competition, even when by hardware design alone, it should not. They can not however, so viewing articles that "attack" Intel or nVidia as biased or fanboyish is also kind of silly.

Things do not bode well though, looking at the new copyright laws being put forth for approval under the new administration. Patent laws could very well end up having the same restrictions on what is deemed "fair use." This would mean that nvidia could very well close Lucid down for good. (Pure 'Charlie' style speculation :) )

AMD partnered up with Intel to develop the Havok Physics engine, and yet PhysX is the chosen engine for gaming titles, it's all about the advertising. There is too much money at stake to expect a level playing field, and enthusiasts have a large impact on the youth in this country. Anyone person can effect hundreds of sales simply by spamming message boards with X>Y. People are hard pressed with real world responsibilities to do research on their own, and let's face another aspect. If a compnay is double dealing and illegally making a product perform better, does that really matter to a good portion of the market in todays, immoral society? Proof is in the pudding as they say. Does not matter WHY it performs better, just that it does. Of course this hurts innovation and effects the enthusiast in a negative way, but it is a price we pay for convenience.

When the dust settles nothing will have changed and there still will be little difference in the performance that either companies products can muster.

JMHO

(For the record, I would like to see AMD and ATi gain more market share, but that does not limit me to buying only their products).
 
Last edited:

Kuroimaho

Member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Location
Japan, Tokyo, Ueno.
Aye, I haven't been this angry since Intel shot down ION through 'fair' board pricing.

That can easily happen if people believe slander from people like Charlie.

The truth is slightly different.

Both Tom and Ken (nVidia) stated that nVidia had "absolutely no hand in the delay of the MSI Big Bang Fuzion board."

They further went on to state that nVidia had "nothing to do with MSI’s decision to release the NF200 based Trinergy instead of the Fuzion." They also stated that they have no plans to block Hydra at the driver level.

"If Hydra performs well and scales better than our own SLI technology, that means we will have to go back to our engineers and push to do a better job and produce equal or better results."
 

Bobnova

Senior Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Yes, and Intel claimed that they had never done anything illegal to block AMD from gaining market share.
You can't actually trust the company at question to be honest, regardless of what company it is.
Remember Nvidia claiming that their bandsaw'd "fermi" was real?
Of course they aren't going to admit that they're illegally blocking Hydra.
 

ratbuddy

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Yes, and Intel claimed that they had never done anything illegal to block AMD from gaining market share.
You can't actually trust the company at question to be honest, regardless of what company it is.
Remember Nvidia claiming that their bandsaw'd "fermi" was real?
Of course they aren't going to admit that they're illegally blocking Hydra.

One might also say "Of course Lucid/MSI aren't going to admit their drivers don't work yet."

It's all unfounded speculation at this point.
 

Bobnova

Senior Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Mobo makers have a better track record, look at sata3, the chip failed and once they discovered it, it was announced and the boards were pulled.
 

Kuroimaho

Member
Joined
May 26, 2004
Location
Japan, Tokyo, Ueno.
Yes, and Intel claimed that they had never done anything illegal to block AMD from gaining market share.

Lucid MSI and Nvidia all made independent statements Nvidia didn't block lucid.

AMD didn't say that Intel didn't block it right ? Seems the similarities end there.

But believe Charlie for all I care.
 

Bobnova

Senior Member
Joined
May 10, 2009
Where did lucid say they weren't being blocked? That's news to me.
We'll just have to wait and see what is in the drivers "for compatibility".
 

ratbuddy

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Where did lucid say they weren't being blocked? That's news to me.
We'll just have to wait and see what is in the drivers "for compatibility".

I'm sure we won't see a retraction from Charlie but we did get one from the listed source in the OP's link, see http://www.overclock3d.net/news.php?/cpu_mainboard/nvidia_quash_msi_s_lucid_powered_big_bang_board/1

Also look at http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...in-the-lucid-msi-dispute-at-all.aspx?pageid=2

I know people like to make Nvidia out as this sort of 'evil empire' but that's no excuse for assuming guilt and believing any little rumor that pops up, especially a rumor from someone as clearly partisan as Charlie.