NVME 4x 4.0 suggestions

[Flamethrower1972]

To me, SATA is already dead. I do not use it, have it disabled on my mobos. I know people still use them, like DVD/BR/HDD.. neither of which I have used in many years, though I still have hardware.. I just do not use it, nor have it installed.

I also left HD'S and have been using SSD'S for a while now.

Post magically merged: Apr 14, 2024

There might be two parts to this questions: hard drives and SATA.

HDs I don't think will go away unless we get something "better" when it comes to capacity. I don't know if flash will some day pass it, or would it take something new.

SATA the connector is more questionable. For enterprise uses, which is probably one of the biggest uses of HDs, they could be as happy with SAS. Even commercial NAS could move to SAS I think. Is there much use for embedded SATA devices? I'm thinking of use cases where HDs still make some sense. Are home video recording boxes still a thing?

So basically, HDs yes, SATA maybe not unless there are enough non-PC use cases for it. In a parallel example, the serial port. Hasn't been standard on PCs for a very long time, but it will probably never completely go away on some industrial equipment.

Maby just use a large one to backup all your stuff. But I have steam and EA for my games so right there you will never loose them and you have the cloud also I use the Microsoft version of it.

 

[mackerel]

Maby just use a large one to backup all your stuff. But I have steam and EA for my games so right there you will never loose them and you have the cloud also I use the Microsoft version of it.

I need more than one HD to backup all my stuff Unless you're a prolific photographer or videographer I'm not sure the average home user needs HD storage.

I'm debating building a 3rd NAS because my 2nd NAS is already so small it doesn't feel worth upgrading. I forget exactly where the sweet spot is right now, but something like 3x 12-16TB HDs would do me for a long time. My old one has 4x8TB and an even older one 4x3TB. I could merge those together as bulk backup, with the new one holding the live data.

 

[Flamethrower1972]

I need more than one HD to backup all my stuff Unless you're a prolific photographer or videographer I'm not sure the average home user needs HD storage.

I'm debating building a 3rd NAS because my 2nd NAS is already so small it doesn't feel worth upgrading. I forget exactly where the sweet spot is right now, but something like 3x 12-16TB HDs would do me for a long time. My old one has 4x8TB and an even older one 4x3TB. I could merge those together as bulk backup, with the new one holding the live data.

What is the largest USB Hard Drive that they make USB 3.0? I found this one.

8TB Portable Hard Drive 3.5 inch USB3.0 Desktop External Hard Drive External Hard Drive Desktop HDD – USB 3.0 $3.000 + Amazon .com​

Amazon.com

 

[Evilsizer]

hmm that link took me to the 12tb version for 249, the 8tb version is 139. you can get the 18tb version for 297 which is more line with your 300. as far as external drives go, its as large as they make regular drives. IE what ever mechanical drive is the largest they make. you can swap out the drive inside for what ever size you want.

 

[rainless]

It just sucks that they have gone up so much. They were cheap last summer. Like 1TB SN770 for 69 beaver bucks cheap. I bought 3 lol..

They'll be cheap again. (You were smart to buy 3 at that price!) As long as China doesn't go to war with Taiwan... we'll be fine.

Storage prices have always wildly fluctuated. (Which is how you were able to get those drives for 69 bucks in the first place.)

 

[EarthDog]

It just sucks that they have gone up so much. They were cheap last summer. Like 1TB SN770 for 69 beaver bucks cheap. I bought 3 lol..

$85 (today @ NEgg) isn't terrible... but it's not $69 either, LOL!

 

[Neuromancer]

Larger drives cost more. Better performance costs more.

This is the way.

It is like spending the 100% tax on the bleeding edge ram that offers no real world performance boost except in very specific synthetic tests.

Except, storage does. No. With only one NvME drive in your system you probably will not notice a HUGE difference.

I do.. CIV 6 used to take forever to open on SATA3. IT takes seconds now. Yes turns still take a while on marathon length games at end of game on huge maps... Thats more about CPU power, and how many AIs you have gotten rid of though. (Takes longer the more you have killed cuz you got 50 units to give orders to lol, CPU takes longer the less you have killed)

Back on windows 7 I think I mentioned already. I had my boot time down to just over 7 seconds. Since we moved to UEFI, that metric is gone, not a fair comparison. With gigabit ethernet being the norm now and 10 GBe being the high end.. SATA3 can't keep up. I am a multitasker even still. I do not just game on my PC, I am running other progs, video, chatting etc. I have not gotten into VR yet but I may someday.

Can you do all of this on SATA3? Sure. Will it be faster on NvME? Sure. IS the price difference enough to complain about? No. It is basically the same thing after all. Just a different interface.

 

[Woomack]

SATA SSD prices are not much lower than NVMe right now, so buying SATA over NVMe is not the best idea. Also, new SATA SSDs are mainly QLC or old series that have problems with larger data or multitasking.
HDD vs. any SSD is another story. It's wrong to even compare them in most daily tasks on modern multi-threaded software (even popular web browsers). HDDs are mainly for backups nowadays.

Any SSD is good for most users. You can often see the difference between SATA SSD and NVMe SSD, but because the most important things are read bandwidth and low queue random operations, it doesn't matter so much if you don't load large data. Barely anyone is moving huge files between drives to take advantage of high sequential bandwidth, so all those 7GB/s+ numbers are more for marketing purposes.

I mentioned in some other threads that I especially like the latest DRAMless NVMe SSDs. I mean a series on Maxio controllers and some new Phison. Series that run cool, are cheaper, and still perform like higher PCIe 4.0 x4 TLC/DRAM series. I was using one of those in my gaming PC, switched recently to Crucial T705, so it is about the fastest single SSD you can get in stores (it was a review sample as I wouldn't buy it), and there is no visible difference. It was expected, but I just thought I didn't want to sell it, and it was higher capacity and promised better results. I will test it on some other software, but in popular, even demanding games that load a lot of small files, it's barely visible.

The main problem for more demanding users (like heavy multi-threading and more professional work on larger files) seems to be too small cache and problems with longer queues on more affordable SSDs. QLC NAND is another thing that is not always specified. Small cache+QLC usually ends on huge performance drops after a while of higher load work. I mean, for 1-2 minutes, it runs at 2-3GB/s, and then it drops to 150-200MB/s. On TLC NAND, it's also clearly visible, but not as much as on QLC. I also don't remember it being so common on SATA SSDs.

Most price comparisons do not divide SSDs between TLC and QLC. Prices for all went up, but more TLC series were replaced with QLC in the last year. Looking at the average prices, we get SSDs at about the same price as year ago ... but worse products at the same price.
The highest series are about 20% more expensive than a year ago. Many mid-shelf series are now QLC. All new 2230/2242 SSDs are now QLC, while a year ago, they were only TLC. I mean, most SSDs for branded laptops, tablets, and handheld gaming consoles are QLC. Most high-capacity SSDs are QLC, too, and this trend will continue as QLC is cheaper and available at higher capacities.

 

[jarablue]

I have disabled the sata controller on my motherboards for the past 2 years. NVME all the way.

I have 3 M2 slots on my mobo. 1 gen 5 and the other 2 gen 4. No need for sata anymore. Maybe one day when I build a retro pc.

 

[freeagent]

You know you are getting old when you see SATA and retro used together in the same sentence.

 

[unsafesteagle]

Swapped a PCIe 3.0 Samsung to PCIe 4.0 Mushkin
Windows Backup tool OS imaging was about the same in the time domain with both devices.

The Mushkin device appeared to graph at a constant transfer rate and i assumed became heat saturated.
Samsung device transfered in a wave form peaking at very high rates.

Just some basic observations.

Windows 11 Pro --> Windows 7 Backup Tool
Creates a Backup system Image in 22 Minutes. OS is around 675 GB in size.
OS is installed on Gigabyte Aurous PCIe 5.0 nvme device

 

[Evilsizer]

which samsung nvme?

 

[unsafesteagle]

970 Evo 1TB pcie 3.0 x4

 

[Nebulous]

I found a nice enough deal for a 1tb nvme in the Acer Predator GM7000 for under a yard. Will unraid my OS drives and just utilize a single drive for the OS.

Also will be snagging up a few 12-18tb spinners from goharddrive on flebay and replace my aging raided spinners. 5 year warranty on recerts is nice enough for my needs.

 

[Woomack]

I found a nice enough deal for a 1tb nvme in the Acer Predator GM7000 for under a yard. Will unraid my OS drives and just utilize a single drive for the OS.

Also will be snagging up a few 12-18tb spinners from goharddrive on flebay and replace my aging raided spinners. 5 year warranty on recerts is nice enough for my needs.

I posted it a while ago in the cyber deals section. I have the GM7000 2TB (it was a review sample), and I've been using it since then in one of the test rigs. It's not the fastest SSD, but it's still not far from the top for PCIe 4.0. It uses an Innogrit controller if you are interested. Results are in the comparison of my other SSD reviews on the front page.

I'm thinking about what to use in my new rig. I also have no idea where I have 2x Kingston DC500 SSDs (probably left at work). I have to figure out how to install bootable NVMe RAID1/10 on Supermicro mobo without an additional controller. I don't need a lot of storage space, and I don't want spinners.

 

[Woomack]

Patriot VP4300 Lite 2TB for ~$108
DRAM-less, but fast and runs at ~50°C without a heatsink. I have 2 of those from early reviews.

 

[Viper69]

I'm not a fan of Samsung, but their SSDs are pretty good

The Samsung drives in my rig below are my first Samsung, and first NVME type drives. My previous drives were an Intel SSD- Loved it, but small.

I'm no fan boy on Samsung, but they seem pretty fast to me. BUT I underestimated how big 1 TB. Why don't you like Samsung? I was under the impression back when I did some research the Samsung 980 Pro was pretty good- is that not the case?

I only have 2 NVMEs. My mobo has 5 M.2 slots., one is PCIE 5.0, but when you use that it reduces the vid card slot from 16 lanes to 8 lanes speed wise. The remainder of the slots are PCIE 4.0.

I ask because I see the 1TB Samsung 980 Pro's on sale for like 89$. But if there are better manufacturer's products I should consider, please let me know. I can't afford the latest Corsair-it's great, but $$$ of course. My primary use is gaming and storage (programs/files)

 

[Woomack]

The Samsung drives in my rig below are my first Samsung, and first NVME type drives. My previous drives were an Intel SSD- Loved it, but small.

I'm no fan boy on Samsung, but they seem pretty fast to me. BUT I underestimated how big 1 TB. Why don't you like Samsung? I was under the impression back when I did some research the Samsung 980 Pro was pretty good- is that not the case?

I only have 2 NVMEs. My mobo has 5 M.2 slots., one is PCIE 5.0, but when you use that it reduces the vid card slot from 16 lanes to 8 lanes speed wise. The remainder of the slots are PCIE 4.0.

I ask because I see the 1TB Samsung 980 Pro's on sale for like 89$. But if there are better manufacturer's products I should consider, please let me know. I can't afford the latest Corsair-it's great, but $$$ of course. My primary use is gaming and storage (programs/files)

The current 980 Pro is fine. However, many other SSDs are nowadays the same or faster and cost the same or less. The 980 Pro used to be a more expensive option than others, but I guess it will soon be EOL, and prices are now low until it disappears.
Corsair is always overpriced, or when the price is low, there is a reason for that (close to EOL, QLC, or other things). Crucial is always fine. Kingston is always good, but they have nothing new for longer (KC3000 is good, but there are faster options for the same price).

I'm not a fan of Samsung, mainly because of their high prices and some past issues. I can also add all those QLC SSDs that they released recently, and they have plans for some more with the next-gen ICs. I mean, pushing PCIe 5.0 SSDs in x2 mode and QLC NAND is a bit weird, especially when faster TLC options don't really cost more.

 

[Viper69]

The current 980 Pro is fine. However, many other SSDs are nowadays the same or faster and cost the same or less. The 980 Pro used to be a more expensive option than others, but I guess it will soon be EOL, and prices are now low until it disappears.
Corsair is always overpriced, or when the price is low, there is a reason for that (close to EOL, QLC, or other things). Crucial is always fine. Kingston is always good, but they have nothing new for longer (KC3000 is good, but there are faster options for the same price).

I'm not a fan of Samsung, mainly because of their high prices and some past issues. I can also add all those QLC SSDs that they released recently, and they have plans for some more with the next-gen ICs. I mean, pushing PCIe 5.0 SSDs in x2 mode and QLC NAND is a bit weird, especially when faster TLC options don't really cost more.

Yes, I remember the 980 Pro being pricey too, so I waited for that and other reasons. There's a 990 version, about 125$ for 1TB. I did see this from Crucial yesterday after reading an earlier post from you.

What do you think? They would go in my PCIE 4 slots.

Crucial P310 2TB PCIe Gen4 NVMe 2280 M.2 SSD | CT2000P310SSD8 | Crucial.com

Buy Crucial P310 2TB PCIe Gen4 NVMe 2280 M.2 SSD CT2000P310SSD8. FREE US Delivery, guaranteed 100% compatibility when ordering using our online tools.

www.crucial.com

Or this Samsung 4TB - nice price it seems for the size, must be EOL.

https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/memory-storage/solid-state-drives/990-pro-pcie-4-0-nvme-ssd-4tb-mz-v9p4t0b-am/

 

[Woomack]

Yes, I remember the 980 Pro being pricey too, so I waited for that and other reasons. There's a 990 version, about 125$ for 1TB. I did see this from Crucial yesterday after reading an earlier post from you.

What do you think? They would go in my PCIE 4 slots.

Crucial P310 2TB PCIe Gen4 NVMe 2280 M.2 SSD | CT2000P310SSD8 | Crucial.com

Buy Crucial P310 2TB PCIe Gen4 NVMe 2280 M.2 SSD CT2000P310SSD8. FREE US Delivery, guaranteed 100% compatibility when ordering using our online tools.

www.crucial.com

The lower price suggests it's QLC NAND and if it's your main SSD then better get TLC. Samsung 990 EVO and Crucial P310 are QLC = slower in writes and more demanding tasks, and lower TBW. I guess I will get the P310 for review, but it hasn't been shipped yet. However, looking at the specs I already know what to expect.