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OCing old rig - but I got stuck can you help me? pls

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Felcas

Registered
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Location
São Paulo, Brasil
Hy everyone, I am reaaaaaly new to OC. I have this rig and I am studing as much as I can before posting anything, I prefer to understand then just ask for what to do and I also don't like to disturb people unecessary, but I got stuck at this point and I don't find any clue on how to proceed, which way should I study soo I am asking for help.

Before I continue with the problem let me show you my rig:
Asus Striker II Extreme
Intel E8600 @ 4Ghz
2x Gskill RipJaws F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL
2x WD Velociraptor
GPU MSI Radeon R9-280
PSU CoolerMaster UCP 1100W
CPU Cooler Xigmatek HDT-S1283 with Artic Silver 5

OBS: For the record, in the old days (2009) it used to have a 3 SLI Nvidia GTX260 and 4x Corsair XMS3 2gb. But then 1 card fried for no understandable reason (no OC), another started to overheat on idle so I uninstalled and I had left just one of the 3. One of the Corsair memory stick got faulty and I sticked with only 3 then. Recently a friend of mine got a new computer and he gave me his GPU Radeo and 2 mem stick (check above, for exact model).

UNTIL NOW: I setup the multiplier to 10x and checked for stability and overheating, passed both. Then I gradually raised the FSB to 1600, I got some instability problems (Prime95 errors) but no overheating at all, then I raised the Vcore to 1,35v and got it stable (Prime95 overnight) however, CPUID tells me the Vcore is at 1,392v (***!).

THE PROBLEM:
I am tring to reach 4.5ghz by raising the FSB to 1800. I saw a lot people reaching this with FSB 1800 but I can't.
If I set FSB to anything above 1600, be it 1601 or 1700 or 1800, anything at all the PC wont POST, it start a 6 seconds continuous beep, then stop for some seconds, black screen and repeat the 6 seconds continuous beep. I can only turn off then, then PC POST only at BIOS screen with a message it failed to post last time, if I change the FSB back to 1600 it is everything ok, but if I insist raising the number the process repeat itself. HOOO my FSB is UNLINKED and memory FSB is at 1600.

Where should I go from now?

Thanks for all the help in advance!
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Please download and install CPU-z and post back with attached pics of these tabs: CPU, Motherboard, Memory and SPD. First crop and capture the images with Snipping Tool and then attach them with the "Go Advanced" button in the lower right hand corner of any new post window. Please actually attach the images instead of linking them.
 
OP
F

Felcas

Registered
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Location
São Paulo, Brasil
Please download and install CPU-z and post back with attached pics of these tabs: CPU, Motherboard, Memory and SPD. First crop and capture the images with Snipping Tool and then attach them with the "Go Advanced" button in the lower right hand corner of any new post window. Please actually attach the images instead of linking them.

Hy Trents, thanks for the fast reply.
1st let me clarify, when I wrote in the original post CPUID I actually mean CPU-Z.

I am going to reply you with 2 posts (I tried one but got confusing, soo I deleted and restarted).

On this reply I am attaching those CPU-Zs information you asked but with original Corsair ram sticks installed. model cm3x2g1600c9dhx. I tried to find it on Corsair site but no sucess I also found other people complaining about that. Soo here are 3 links for your reference.



Memory cm3x2g1600c9dhx
http://www.corsair.com/en-us/tw3x4g1333c9dhx
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145200
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2360711,00.asp

- - - Updated - - -

Then there is the second reply. Here I show some new memory sticks that a friend gave to me recently, they are GSkills Ripsaw. I am also listing links for your convenience bellow, NOTE they are 8gb, but my mobo only recognize 4gb on each stick and then CPU-Z list the part number as 4GBRL and not 8GBRL.

F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

ALSO CHANGING THOSE MEMORIES DO NOT ALLOW ME TO GO PAST POST AND INTO WINDOWS. I already done that.

Despite my 1st problem that I am of course more worried, which one do you recomend using? Simple logic says the Ripjaws are better but then am I getting any real benefit from it? if small or no benefit, better store it till I get a better mobo, don't you think?

Thanks a lot.

- - - Updated - - -

F.... the forum merged independent posts. :mad:
Ok the picture with 4 CPU-Zs is showing old corsair information.
The picture with just 2 CPU-Zs is showing the newer RipJaws memories information.
Hope this clarifies.
 

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||Console||

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2004
Drop your multi to 6x then see if you can go any farther.

You might need more voltage on the ram and the chipset.
 

Evilsizer

Senior Forum Spammer
Joined
Jun 6, 2002
two things with the old NV chipsets, never run your ratios on auto. now i forget if this is with it unlinked or linked, but with it on auto. the board will make its own ratios to get the ram speed you have set/defined in the bios. this is in contrast to how the intel chipsets at the time work, being that when you increase fsb speed the ram speed increased as well. basically the jist is, there are ratio holes, where the board will not boot at all. you will want to either set your ram ratio your self and leave the ram speed up to the fsb and ratio set in bios. one thing i would so is set your "memory clock mode" to linked and define your ram ratio to 1:1. this will allow you to push the cpu to see what its limits are. then from there you can go back and up the ram ratio to then find the rams limits, depending on where it lands. you can max out the cpu to what it can do and hit your highest ram speed. another option is to find the middle ground where you have a high cpu speed vs stock speed and have a higher ram speed vs stock(if you choose to push the ram speed.)
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Keep in mind that the memory tab in CPU-z will show a frequency of one half of what the DDR speed is. So it looks like you were running the Corsair memory way past their rated speed of 1066. If the report from CPU-z is accurate then you were running memory rated for 1066 mhz at 1600 mhz. CPU-z is reporting the maximum bandwidth of the Corsair memory as 533 mhz (DDR3 1066) but that may be incorrect as the memory model number shows 1600. So on further reflection the max bandwidth that CPU-z is reporting is probably incorrect. However, 1600 mhz is the memory's XMP mode and the XMP timings given in that SPD XMP column are sometimes very critical to the RAM being stable at that frequency. Looser may not be better.

But having said all that, you have your RAM running at it's max rated frequency with the FSB at 400 mhz. If you want to push the CPU faster you may have to lower your RAM divider since raising the FSB will also speed up the RAM.
 

Evilsizer

Senior Forum Spammer
Joined
Jun 6, 2002
trents if you look at the two cpuz's with the SPD tab he tried two different sets of ram. first one being possibly what came in the machine being DDR3-1066 and then he bought or what ever some DDR3-1600 sticks.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Last edited:

wingman99

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Change the memory divider so the memory speed is running the slowest speed, then overclock the CPU more.
 
OP
F

Felcas

Registered
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Location
São Paulo, Brasil
Drop your multi to 6x then see if you can go any farther.

You might need more voltage on the ram and the chipset.


Ok thanks for all the replies. I will answer all of you and please be patiente as some things that are simple to you are still confusing to me.

Console, I droped it back to 6x as you suggested. My Vcore is set to 1,35v but I don't know why CPU-Z show me it is a diferent voltage (higher), I tried to use LLC but no diference soo I keep LLC off just to make things simpler since it doesn't show any results. This changes didn't solve the problem, I am still stucked at the POST with a single continuous 6 seconds beep and them back to BIOS.

I didn't upped the RAM voltage because I don't know how much are the limits before burning it. Website say tested voltage is 1.5v soo I ask you and everyone else how much is "relative safe" upper limit voltage I can play with?

ON BIOS I have this options relative to memory (along a lot others):
MEMORY VOLTAGE: 1,5v to 3,1v
DDR3 CHA1 REF VOLTAGE: auto/ddr_ref/+125mv/+250mv/-125mv/-250mv
^^^above option repeat for CHB1, CHA2 and CHB2

Thanks
 
OP
F

Felcas

Registered
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Location
São Paulo, Brasil
two things with the old NV chipsets, never run your ratios on auto. now i forget if this is with it unlinked or linked, but with it on auto. the board will make its own ratios to get the ram speed you have set/defined in the bios. this is in contrast to how the intel chipsets at the time work, being that when you increase fsb speed the ram speed increased as well. basically the jist is, there are ratio holes, where the board will not boot at all. you will want to either set your ram ratio your self and leave the ram speed up to the fsb and ratio set in bios. one thing i would so is set your "memory clock mode" to linked and define your ram ratio to 1:1. this will allow you to push the cpu to see what its limits are. then from there you can go back and up the ram ratio to then find the rams limits, depending on where it lands. you can max out the cpu to what it can do and hit your highest ram speed. another option is to find the middle ground where you have a high cpu speed vs stock speed and have a higher ram speed vs stock(if you choose to push the ram speed.)

Evilsizer, thanks for the reply. I actually didn't used auto from the very beggining. However I didn't knew about this strategy using lower RAM speed soo I tried a few things in this morning. Neverthless none of them worked.

First I had my MULTI to 10x, FSB UNLINKED and at 1800 and MEMORY (DDR) option to 1600. NOTE that when I have UNLINKED selected I have NO RATIO option, I need to manually insert the memory speed.
Then I reduced the multiplier to 6x and left everything else as same. didn't worked.
Next I reduced FSB to 1650 and MEMORY to 800 (thats the minimum I can fill in for the memory). didn't worked either.
Then I tried to change the UNLINKED option to LINKED. With this the MEMORY SPEED option is greyed out and the MEMORY RATIO option is now available. I tried 5:4, 3:2 and SYNCH (1:1) none worked past POST.

Console told me to raise memory voltages but I don't know how much is safe. What you think?
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Changing the memory divider has noting to do with memory voltage. It affects what is the starting frequency of the RAM before any overclocking is done. You want to lower the starting frequency of the RAM because it will increase as you increase the FSB/CPU frequency. If you start the memory at it's full rated speed before you start the CPU/FSB increases the memory frequency will soon get too high and create instability. So to start with you lower it to make headroom. So for instance, if the RAM is rated for 1600 mhz, before you start overclocking, set the RAM divider such that the RAM is running at 1066 mhz or 1333 mhz instead of 1600. You can check the Memory tab of CPU-z as you overclock to see what effect raising the FSB/CPU frequency is having on the RAM frequency. But remember, CPU-z is reporting half the actual speed because it's giving the non DDR bus frequency. DDR means Double Data Rate.
 
OP
F

Felcas

Registered
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Location
São Paulo, Brasil
Keep in mind that the memory tab in CPU-z will show a frequency of one half of what the DDR speed is. So it looks like you were running the Corsair memory way past their rated speed of 1066. If the report from CPU-z is accurate then you were running memory rated for 1066 mhz at 1600 mhz. CPU-z is reporting the maximum bandwidth of the Corsair memory as 533 mhz (DDR3 1066) but that may be incorrect as the memory model number shows 1600. So on further reflection the max bandwidth that CPU-z is reporting is probably incorrect. However, 1600 mhz is the memory's XMP mode and the XMP timings given in that SPD XMP column are sometimes very critical to the RAM being stable at that frequency. Looser may not be better.

But having said all that, you have your RAM running at it's max rated frequency with the FSB at 400 mhz. If you want to push the CPU faster you may have to lower your RAM divider since raising the FSB will also speed up the RAM.

Thanks Trents

For the corsair yes, I noticed and as I said before, I saw some people complain they bought one thing and received other. The explanation from Corsair is that this sticks are overclocked from manufacturer, but I don't know exactly what is it. I checked my order from 2009 and indeed it shows me 1600mhz memories and not 1066. They also state 1600 on its own heatsink decal.

But to minimize confusion I am running my rig with the new RipJaws wich are 1600.

What you mean with "lower your RAM divider"? you mean the FSB RATIO? I have an explanation about that in reply to Evilsizer this might clarify. I am using UNLINKED and I tried the lowest settings which is 800.

Thanks

- - - Updated - - -

Change the memory divider so the memory speed is running the slowest speed, then overclock the CPU more.
Hy Wingman
Same as I replied to Trents, what you mean with change the divider? You mean the FSB RATIO to DRAM? I am using unlinked and even on linked with ratio I could't solve my problem. Check my reply to Evilsizer.

Thanks!
 
OP
F

Felcas

Registered
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Location
São Paulo, Brasil
Changing the memory divider has noting to do with memory voltage. It affects what is the starting frequency of the RAM before any overclocking is done. You want to lower the starting frequency of the RAM because it will increase as you increase the FSB/CPU frequency. If you start the memory at it's full rated speed before you start the CPU/FSB increases the memory frequency will soon get too high and create instability. So to start with you lower it to make headroom. So for instance, if the RAM is rated for 1600 mhz, before you start overclocking, set the RAM divider such that the RAM is running at 1066 mhz or 1333 mhz instead of 1600. You can check the Memory tab of CPU-z as you overclock to see what effect raising the FSB/CPU frequency is having on the RAM frequency. But remember, CPU-z is reporting half the actual speed because it's giving the non DDR bus frequency. DDR means Double Data Rate.

Ok I understood the strategy , however I don't understand how I do it.
As I already explained I have this options on BIOS
AUTO/LINKED/UNLINKED

If I use Linked I have then auto/5:4/3:2/SYNC
If I use Unlinked I can just fill in the speed I want to DRAM but from 800 to 3000

Is this what you talking about? Or it is somewhere else?
 
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F

Felcas

Registered
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Location
São Paulo, Brasil
Ok after a lot of observations I found out I can't set my ration to more then 1:1 for the FSB.
In short, any combination I make be it on linked or unlinked I can get only 1:1 or a ratio that RAM becomes FASTER then the CPU. I can't make the CPU faster then RAM.
This is because BIOS don't let me set unlinked RAM SPEED to LESS then 800 (which is actually 400), FSB can go to 1600 divided by 4, which is 400 which is 1:1 ratio with RAM, but if I try anything higher then 1600 my PC wont POST which is the original problem of this post.

Then I have LINKED option, but guess what, they are completelly messed. If I select 5:4 on BIOS I end up with a 5:8 on CPU-Z. If I select 3:2 I end up with 3:4. And if I try SYNC I end up with 1:2

Anyone have any clue what is going on? I have screenshots if you want.

How can I decrease MEMORY SPEED bellow 800 (400)?
Thanks
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Okay, you're catching on. 5:4, 5:8, 1:1, 1:2 are dividers. If there are limits in your bios to being able to manipulate this then you are stuck. Can you take a pic of the overclocking frequencies section of your bios and attach it with a post?
 
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Felcas

Registered
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Apr 27, 2017
Location
São Paulo, Brasil
Ok I found the culprit.

It was VTT settings. It was on AUTO, I set to 1,25v and I have now passed POST and into Windows with FSB1700 and 4.25ghz.

I got what I was looking for.

Now I will try to make it stable. Temperatures at idle seems much higher, it is now around 40 but topped 49 without any heavy software, just chrome and CPU-Z.

Found the solution here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2500/15
 

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OP
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Felcas

Registered
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Location
São Paulo, Brasil
Okay, you're catching on. 5:4, 5:8, 1:1, 1:2 are dividers. If there are limits in your bios to being able to manipulate this then you are stuck. Can you take a pic of the overclocking frequencies section of your bios and attach it with a post?

Unfortunatelly I cant take shots from the bios, but there are not much options after all, as I said just: auto/5:4/3:2/sync and they got screwed. I will attach one screenshot from when I selected 5:4.

But this is not the problem. VTT was the problem, I changed from auto to 1,25v and I passed POST, I am right now on FSB1700 4.25ghz. I just need to fine tune and stabilize, at least I am not on a dead end like before.

Can you tell me why one core is hotter then the other? Core 2 seems to always be around 5c to 10c hotter then Core 1.

Thanks
 

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Tech Tweaker

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Then there is the second reply. Here I show some new memory sticks that a friend gave to me recently, they are GSkills Ripjaws. I am also listing links for your convenience bellow, NOTE they are 8gb, but my mobo only recognize 4gb on each stick and then CPU-Z list the part number as 4GBRL and not 8GBRL.

F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL
https://www.gskill.com/en/product/f3-12800cl9d-8gbrl

ALSO CHANGING THOSE MEMORIES DO NOT ALLOW ME TO GO PAST POST AND INTO WINDOWS. I already done that.

Despite my 1st problem that I am of course more worried, which one do you recomend using? Simple logic says the Ripjaws are better but then am I getting any real benefit from it? if small or no benefit, better store it till I get a better mobo, don't you think?

Thanks a lot.
Note: these are not 8GB per stick. It is an 8GB kit, and each stick/module is 4GB's in size/capacity.

So, it showing 4GB on each stick is perfectly normal. Showing 4GBRL on each individual stick from that set in CPU-Z for the part number is also normal.


Unfortunatelly I cant take shots from the bios, but there are not much options after all, as I said just: auto/5:4/3:2/sync and they got screwed. I will attach one screenshot from when I selected 5:4.

But this is not the problem. VTT was the problem, I changed from auto to 1,25v and I passed POST, I am right now on FSB1700 4.25ghz. I just need to fine tune and stabilize, at least I am not on a dead end like before.

Can you tell me why one core is hotter then the other? Core 2 seems to always be around 5c to 10c hotter then Core 1.

Thanks
This is normal for the temperatures between different cores to vary (or be different). It is very rare for all cores in a CPU to be the same temperature.