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FEATURED Official AMD Ryzen 3 Vermeer (4***/5***) Rumors and Discussion Thread

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Janus67

Benching Team Leader
Joined
May 29, 2005
Looks like we may be seeing the release of the next generation of processors from AMD in the next month or so.

Feel free to post here regarding the new processors that many are excited to see as a follow-up from the 3*** series Ryzen 2 CPUs.

Zen 3 keynote will be on October 8th, 2020 (10/8/2020)

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...specifications-pricing-benchmarks-all-we-know


https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-to-launch-ryzen-9-5900x-and-ryzen-7-5800x-on-october-20th

According to videocardz, we may see a launch of the 5800x and 5900x on October 20th (10/20/20)


Rumors and hopes are around a 15% IPC boost over the 3*** series.

 

bigtallanddopey

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
I for one cannot wait for these processors. I have a 1600 right now and It is ready for an upgrade, if not for the main reason of getting ram that will run faster than 3000Mhz due to instability.

And it looks like this time round Ryzen will finally get that last chip off it’s shoulder by beating or at least matching Intel in gaming performance. So it will have the price and the overall performance, hopefully.

I probably will wait for the 5600x but could be tempted by that 5800x which looks impressive so far. Although as we know you have to take these leaks with a pinch of salt.


 
OP
Janus67

Janus67

Benching Team Leader
Joined
May 29, 2005
Yep, same here. Been rocking the 4770k in my system since it was released and am finally getting an itch to replace it. I am looking to get the 57/5800x or 5900x depending on benchmarks and such (and price of course). And pairing that with my first foray into DDR4 (will wait to see what the price/performance/sweet spot is for Zen3 (if it is DDR4-3600 again or whatever) and go from there with probably 16GB or maybe 32 if the price is right. Will also likely move on from my Phanteks cooler and move to my first AIO.
 

ssjwizard

Has slightly less legible writing than Thideras
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
I almost purchased a Ryzen R9-3900X the other day. It turns out I am gonna have to wait a few months before I can do my new build so this sounds absolutely wonderful to me.
 

mackerel

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
The most interesting change for me is they're supposedly going to 8 core CCX. Breaking down that barrier would make up to 8 core offerings more like monolithic again and should help a lot with scaling in more complex workloads. Any IPC or clock gain on top of that should make them really sweet. The question that remains for me is will it be enough to take the gaming crown from Intel? Zen 2 was arguably the CPU that finally surpassed Intel for general uses without requiring a long list of exceptions we had with earlier Zen. Can Zen 3 pick up those remaining gaps? Or will Rocket Lake actually happen and hold out in gaming?
 

ShrimpBrime

~MadHatDeLidder~
Joined
Apr 19, 2012
The most interesting change for me is they're supposedly going to 8 core CCX. Breaking down that barrier would make up to 8 core offerings more like monolithic again and should help a lot with scaling in more complex workloads. Any IPC or clock gain on top of that should make them really sweet. The question that remains for me is will it be enough to take the gaming crown from Intel? Zen 2 was arguably the CPU that finally surpassed Intel for general uses without requiring a long list of exceptions we had with earlier Zen. Can Zen 3 pick up those remaining gaps? Or will Rocket Lake actually happen and hold out in gaming?

All Zen really lacks is frequency abilities. Needs about 400mhz OC headroom for us overclockers though. That aspect has been a huge disappointment for me.
 

bigtallanddopey

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2016
All Zen really lacks is frequency abilities. Needs about 400mhz OC headroom for us overclockers though. That aspect has been a huge disappointment for me.

Unfortunately for overclocking I think the good old days of getting 20% more performance have long gone. Boost technology means you are getting most of the performance out of the box anyway. I can imagine it will be the same for intel going forward as well.


 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Just some thoughts based on my Ryzen 4650G tests and rumors seen on the web.

I don't think that the upcoming 5000 series will be much different than the Renoir, so current 4000 series. AMD wants to divide business products giving the new consumer series 5000 naming. It's also because Renoir is on the market for couple of months already. I only expect that 5000 series will have a larger cache and offer more cores than the 4000, and that's all.

If you check Ryzen 4000 APU series tests then you will see it's not really faster but lower than expected performance can be caused by quite small cache compared to current 3000 series chips. The 5000 series supposed to have a larger cache than APU.
I wasn't really focusing on IPC gains on my 4650G so I won't tell much about that. What I see is that my chip runs cooler than the Ryzen 3600 having as many cores and about the same clock. It can be mentioned smaller cache or something else.

Significant differences from my point of view make mentioned monolithic design and a higher infinity fabric clock. There are some memory tests with IF 1:1 up to 2266MHz/DDR4-4533 in my GSkill Neo DDR4-3600 review.

For sure DDR4-4000+ start to be more popular as memory will be scaling higher and it actually goes really nice up to mentioned DDR4-4533 where it can hit ~70GB/s. This is about as much as we used to see on quad-channel platforms. DDR4-4600 will be possible on better chips. My 4650G boots with mem at 4600 but crashes in tests regardless of voltages or other settings. I assume it's the same as with DDR4-3733 and DDR4-3800 on current Ryzen 3000 chips.

Improvements may give us a higher CPU clock but I highly doubt it will be much higher than what we have now. We may see up to 5GHz on single cores but even now chips with 4.6GHz boost, barely ever reach that, even in optimal conditions like lower temp etc. All cores under load usually run 300-400MHz lower so I assume that we may see something like 4.5GHz on all cores what would be still about 200MHz improvement over current gen. In the same time I heard that the cache will be smaller, but faster. AMD announced up to 32MB+ L3 cache. It means or 50% size reduction or this info doesn't cover all available chips as 3900X/3950X have 64MB. Right now there is a huge cache which isn't really required. AMD wanted to work some to reduce latency so I wonder if they decide to reduce cache size or not.
 

mackerel

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
In the same time I heard that the cache will be smaller, but faster. AMD announced up to 32MB+ L3 cache. It means or 50% size reduction or this info doesn't cover all available chips as 3900X/3950X have 64MB. Right now there is a huge cache which isn't really required. AMD wanted to work some to reduce latency so I wonder if they decide to reduce cache size or not.

I hadn't heard about a cache reduction. That will be an area of interest. The 4MB/core of Zen2 is really sweet. I have to wonder if this is in part due to the larger CCX, since the pool would then be shared between 8 cores not 4. Assuming they're working on the same data that wont be an effective reduction. If they are working on different data, it would be.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
I also see that some refreshed motherboards like Gigabyte B550 with V2 in the name or some MSI, have memory support up to DDR4-4400 (some DDR4-4600 but not many). It suggests what I said, so the maximum clock with 1:1 if ratio on every CPU will be probably up to 2200MHz/DDR4-4400 ... and higher wasn't really tested with new chips or failed tests. On the other hand, my motherboards automatically set 2000MHz IF clock when I run memory with XMP 4266+ and leave everything at auto so it's about the same behavior as when we set anything past DDR4-3600 with Ryzen 3000 -> it sets 1800MHz IF or lower clock, depends on the motherboard.
This is also a bit weird as previous versions of the same motherboards support DDR4-5000+. It can be also related to what motherboard manufacturers actually tested as till the last month most B550 motherboards had on the QVL only memory kits up to DDR4-3600 what for some reason was tested only with 4000 APU.

If I'm right then Ryzen 5000 will be announced in a week and available at the end of the month so we won't have to wait long for official specs.
 

notarat

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
I'm ambivalent about the launch.

On one hand I hope they do release the new ones but, on the other hand, I still have an unopened, BNIB 3950X sitting on a shelf gathering dust because I can't be bothered to install it in my spare comp, lol.
 

TerranBrackiatt

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
you know, with the samsung pcie Gen 4 NVMe drives coming out, i'm finally in the market for an upgrade. i can only hope that these zen3 CPUs offer more pcie lanes though. with gamers like me looking for the faster boot and game drives, it only makes sense (to me) that the non-HEDT CPUs get an upgrade to allow for more NVMe drives. especially considering the size of the new games.... 150GB+. also, 16x adapter cards are rather appealing, housing 4 m.2 drives, plus active cooling. but they need a full 16x slot to work.

anywho, i was getting ready to pull the trigger on stuff in my sig, but the zen3 launch has already delayed my purchase. especially if the RAM controllers like the faster RAM at 1:1.

as you can see, i've been running a 4930k for quite some time, and with the death of SLI, plus the zen2 TRs starting at $1400, plus intel HEDT CPUs still on PCIe 3.0, i'm really excited to see some benchmarks on the zen3 CPUs
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Current X570 mobos support 2x PCIe 4.0 SSD and these are up to 2TB capacity. It's more than enough for a gaming PC. Not to mention there is barely any difference in games because of the type of SSD drive (as long as it has cache and isn't really budget series). PCIe 4.0 SSD are so far a waste of money for gaming.

PCIE cards for 4x SSD need HEDT platforms as they need specific BIOS with PCIe splitting options to work. On cheaper mobos, even if it's available, then usually can make only 2x PCIe x4 out of x8 or have to sacrifice the first slot dedicated for a graphics card. At least this is what I see on popular ASRock or ASUS motherboards.
There are SSD that use PCIE x16 but are way too expensive to be worth to use in a gaming PC.
Motherboards probably won't change anytime soon so I also wouldn't expect additional PCIe lanes from the chipset itself.

Somehow I also doubt that RAID on NVMe drives will have any point, the same as right now on PCIe 3.0. This is mostly because in RAID, NVMe drives are losing performance in random operations and gain sequential bandwidth which is not important in most applications including games. The only way to make it faster is to set "RAID" using dynamic volumes in Windows but you can't boot from that drive so have to think about something even small capacity as a Windows boot drive.
 

mackerel

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
I think an increase in PCIe lanes on consumer platforms is unlikely. The only problem with 2TB models for now is they can still work out more expensive per capacity compared to 1TB ones where there is much more choice. I'd agree 2-4TB should be plenty for a gaming system, assuming the user doesn't install every game they own regardless if they ever play them. I used to be like that, but now have tons of free space when I stopped doing that. If you have other less performance critical data you can still have slower tiers of storage.

Up to now I've been happy with SATA SSDs for game storage, but looking forward if RTX IO (or whatever the generic tech is called) takes off for future games, then faster storage could start to affect gaming more as we move beyond designed for hard disk era. The incremental benefit from a high end 3.0 SSD to a budget 4.0 is not significant, but I guess it is inevitable that all SSDs will transition to 4.0 over time, and there will be better or worse ones. I'd like to target a single mid-range 2TB 4.0 SSD for my next gaming system refresh.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Same. I don't see much of a point to increase lanes on the consumer platform. Any of the premium chipsets (X570) have plenty of lanes for 99% of users. You can run up to three M.2 storage modules and still have four SATA ports (some boards six). If you need more than that, you're looking at HEDT territory.

RTX IO, if/when that takes off, may have some uses, but as it stands today, even the Intel platform has enough lanes for 95% of users on their mainstream platform.
 

MaddMutt

Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2015
DDR5 next year?
The RTX I/O sounds a lot like Intel’s i720 graphics card. Way back then Intel stated :
Our card only needs 2mb of VRam. It’s designed to use the AGP protical to move tectures in & out of system memory.
This is why others (3DFX) need 6-8mb vram on their cards.
 
OP
Janus67

Janus67

Benching Team Leader
Joined
May 29, 2005
DDR5 next year?
The RTX I/O sounds a lot like Intel’s i720 graphics card. Way back then Intel stated :
Our card only needs 2mb of VRam. It’s designed to use the AGP protical to move tectures in & out of system memory.
This is why others (3DFX) need 6-8mb vram on their cards.


Yeah, something similar I guess. It's my understanding that Microsoft has developed an API for sending data directly to the graphics cards VRAM able to bypass a performance hit on the CPU. At least that's a general thought based on what they have announced for the new Xbox consoles coming out in a month. It sounds like Microsoft is making that available as well on Windows 10 (maybe something to launch with the Fall 2020 build) which nVidia is hoping to take advantage of. By being able to bypass that it should greatly improve load times and reduce texture pop-in.
 

pinky33

Member
Joined
May 6, 2008
Glad to see some motherboard talk about pcix lanes and chipsets. I am trying to decide between b550 and x570 for a zen 2 ryzen 5 3600 build that would allow for a zen 3 ryzen 7 upgrade later if needed if/when I upgrade from nvida 1080.


press conference in 12 hours.
 

mackerel

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Not long until the event...

I really want to build a new gaming focused system in the near future but don't have to have it soon. The primary focus will be gaming, including titles past, present and future. An 8 core Zen 3 is an obvious candidate but I'm still concerned about performance anomalies particularly in some older titles when run on Zen 2 compared to Intel. I really wonder if the expected unified CCX will largely resolve that. As a backup, I guess I can keep an eye out for a cheap 8 core Coffee Lake if there might be many people upgrading to AMD. Rocket Lake is too far out to be a realistic consideration.