Old OC'r wants to build and learn for gaming.

[freeagent]

What does the manual say?

I don't think many people run sata in nvme these days.

 

[deathstar13]

PCIe 5.0 M.2 is what it calls for. are they purposely leaving off the NVMe name for some reason?
As M.2 isnt made in Gen5 and runs off the sata lanes.

 

[EarthDog]

Seems like there's some confusion...

I don't think many people run sata in nvme these days.

M.2 is the type of drive.

The slower SATA M.2s do not use PCIe lanes like the faster NVME-based drives do. Only a few boards/m.2 sockets support sata-based m.2 these days. They mostly support only pcie/nvme-based.

PCIe 5.0 M.2 is what it calls for. are they purposely leaving off the NVMe name for some reason?
As M.2 isnt made in Gen5 and runs off the sata lanes.

An m.2 socket that supports 5.0 supports 4.0 and 3.0 drives too. Sata m.2 is keyed the same as pcie/nvme (at least they both fit/run in the same socket).

Manuals/specs often just say PCIe because that's what NVME is/uses. It will say sata if it supports aata-based m.2 drives

M.2 is made for nvme/pcie and does NOT use sata bandwidth unless a board specifically says it supports sata drives.

 

[deathstar13]

thanks for clearing that up!
That now brings me to a second question about drives Gen4 vs Gen 5 M.2's
i know the Gen 5 wins hands down at sequential reads and writes but we dont use them alot its all about the random reads and writes and the Gen4 is on par with the Gen5 M.2's speed wise.
After much shopping Gen5 is 2x the price of Gen4 drives.
Ive since set my eyes on a budget AM5 build and wonder if the extra +$100 for a 2Tb drive is worth double the money?

Ill also be setting my eyes on an 8 core cpu instead of 12, 90% of my time is internet browsing and 10% gaming.
So at the moment im looking back again at the Ryzen 7 8700G 8-Core so i can game and save up for a Radeon RX 7600 Gaming OC 8G to go in the rig.
i think i said this in my first post, but im mainly building this to learn about the new generations of PC building and then tweaking the hell out of it and actually using it is my 3rd priority. So doing it on a budget is what makes sense to me.

 

[JLK03F150]

i know the Gen 5 wins hands down at sequential reads and writes but we dont use them alot its all about the random reads and writes and the Gen4 is on par with the Gen5 M.2's speed wise.
After much shopping Gen5 is 2x the price of Gen4 drives.
Ive since set my eyes on a budget AM5 build and wonder if the extra +$100 for a 2Tb drive is worth double the money?

I read in other threads that the gen 5 M.2 drives aren't really worth the extra money. They tend to run hot and throttle, so they lose their speed advantage once that happens. Even without throttling, we usually won't 'feel' the difference in day to day use. Hopefully someone will chime in if that opinion has changed.

I only have a gen 4 system, but started out with a gen 3 M.2. Once gen 4 M.2 came down in price I bought one & moved it to my primary drive. I removed my backup HDD & put the gen 3 M.2 in its place. Stupid fast transfers between drives without the spinner in there anymore.

 

[EarthDog]

Ive since set my eyes on a budget AM5 build and wonder if the extra +$100 for a 2Tb drive is worth double the money?

Worth it is up to you... but for a budget build, I'd say no. What he said ^^.

 

[deathstar13]

Thanks for the input guys, ill let cash in hand decide which way i go.
$120 for 2TB is much better than $220 for 2TB imo, Plus another $20 or so for cooling it with a heatpipe and fan. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C4JMPV6B/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_4?smid=AECMV4Q5B05GL&th=1
if i was moving large files and transfers i could see the Gen5 as the way to go. But random reads and writes dont differ much much between the two.
i do know if i go Gen5 ill have a large heatsink and small fan on it, Even for Gen4 i may do that is its just my style.

I just upgraded my laptop from an unknown Gen too a Gen4 and i used the Graphine sticker and a thick slab of copper all done with thermal pads and it barely gets warm under benchtesting. plus if i go Gen 4 and feel its holding the system back i can always buy a Gen5 for my main slot and put the gen 4 in one of the bottom slots as that PCIe only runs at Gen4 speeds anyhow.

 

[Woomack]

Thanks for the input guys, ill let cash in hand decide which way i go.
$120 for 2TB is much better than $220 for 2TB imo, Plus another $20 or so for cooling it with a heatpipe and fan. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C4JMPV6B/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_4?smid=AECMV4Q5B05GL&th=1
if i was moving large files and transfers i could see the Gen5 as the way to go. But random reads and writes dont differ much much between the two.
i do know if i go Gen5 ill have a large heatsink and small fan on it, Even for Gen4 i may do that is its just my style.

I just upgraded my laptop from an unknown Gen too a Gen4 and i used the Graphine sticker and a thick slab of copper all done with thermal pads and it barely gets warm under benchtesting. plus if i go Gen 4 and feel its holding the system back i can always buy a Gen5 for my main slot and put the gen 4 in one of the bottom slots as that PCIe only runs at Gen4 speeds anyhow.

PCIe 5.0 SSDs are so far a waste of money as you can't really see the difference out of synthetic benchmarks. Also, all of them except for the new DRAM-less series, run hot. I'm still waiting for anything without cache for tests, but all vendors say they are not ready or samples are unavailable.

Graphene provides almost nothing. While all advertise it as something great on SSDs, it was proven to provide 0-2 °C better temperatures under load. If you see the SSD run cool under load on a laptop, then it's probably a DRAM-less series that typically keeps ~55°C. If you install any higher series, then it will throttle during an extended load, and you can't do anything about it.
On desktops, use large motherboard heatsinks or just one of the coolers that you linked. These huge heatsinks on higher Gigabyte or ASRock motherboards handle PCIe 5.0 SSDs without active cooling. At least this is what I saw in my tests with Phison or Innogrit PCIe 5.0 SSDs. On ASUS B650 TUF, the top heatsink won't handle any faster PCIe 5.0 SSD and a 3rd party M.2 cooler may interfere with a CPU cooler, so check twice what you buy.

 

[deathstar13]

im going to pull my SSD out of my laptop and take the graphine off as it adds an extra layer of thermal pads which id say is just making it worse.
Plus the way its put together is rather thick and ive noticed if i hold my laptop by that corner where the SSD is located will cause a reboot. So its too thick. With everyones responces and from my research i think a PCIe Gen4 is the way to go for now. My onboard built in heatsink should handle a Gen4 drive with no issues and have no extra expense in cooling and clearance issues even tho im going to use an AIO watercooling setup.

Im going to try and find out what Gen my SSD is i took from my laptop and put a Gen4 2TB drive in to replace it. I wont need 2TB in my laptop once i have this Gaming rig up and running as it had a 500GB SSD in it and the games filled it up. So i may not have to buy anything. But this is just a guess.

 

[Zerileous]

I'm confused here, to my understanding cooling is only an issue with large files. And even if so it will just throttle. I would definitely say get a gen 4 because it's plenty fast for your uses. Not sure I would avoid gen 5 because you might not be able to keep it cool. I could be wrong tho I'm still on gen 3 everything so I haven't paid much attention.

Also usually leaving the sticker on the SSD is the way to go, if what's what you're talking about. It's not very thick. Unfortunately yeah laptops can be flexy, who knows what is happening when you pinch it to make it reboot.

 

[deathstar13]

Ive been watching many test reviews on youtube Gen4 vs Gen5 and Gen5 is only faster at large file transfers and rendering. Random read and writes they both do the same speeds. at 2X the price its not worth the expense since im trying my best to make a budget build.
My Gen4 NVMe 2TB drive in my laptop will get a bit worm when stressing the drive with benchmarks, but my cooling solution with a slab of copper on it keeps it in the low 60's at full blast.
I dropped my ram down from 64GB too 32GB being its most recommended for gamers.

im gonna still get the Ryzen 7 8700G 8-Core at $254 which will allow me time to save for the RX 7600 XT and still play games until i can buy it.
Ive watched tests on this cpu and long as your not running the APU and GPU at the same time the PCIe lanes wont be saturated while just running a GPU.
does anyone recommend the Debaur and Thermaltake cpu holders and not using the stock clamping system?

i did pick out a low upper range psu but i dont think ill need 1000W, Seasonic Vertex GX-850-850W. i may be on a budget but i gotta have well made parts and pay a bit extra if need be.

 

[deathstar13]

i placed my order for my CPU today and i just felt like an 8 core was cheating my build, so i went with a AMD Ryzen™ 9 9900X 12-Core to me some items cant be be skimpped on and the CPU is the main one.

 

[deathstar13]

this build is coming together rather nicely.
Today i ordered a case and AIO and extra 120mm fans all in black as i hate silly lights.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com

and i have the Asus Tuf mobo here and the cpu is a Ryzen9 9900X

Im hoping to complete the build in 2 months buy parts as i go.
The only thing ill splurge on is the Corsair 2T Gen5 NVMe the rest will fall between budget and high end.

 

[EarthDog]

The only thing ill splurge on is the Corsair 2T Gen5 NVMe the rest will fall between budget and high end.

That's a change from... Friday. I'm curious what changed that it's now worth '2x the price' in a budget build.

 

[deathstar13]

im still an overclocker and tweaker at heart, Yes the Gen5 NVMe is overkill atm but i dont want FOMO on something.
Ill admit this got away from a Budget build, But more of a Mid Range pc build.
ill still be sticking to the RX 7600XT as im not that hard core of a gamer the necessitates a +$500 gpu
ill still be staying with https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C4NM8NMC/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=AWD7GDDT7Q2ZT&th=1 as my ram as 64 GB is wasteful imo.
i even dropped my PSU down to a Corsair 850W psu as i originally wanted a 1000W model but again too overkill.
i am thinking months down the road of adding 2x Gen4 2TB NVMe's and run in raid 0 for all my games. I gotta research that alot if i should use the mobo slots or use a PCIe raid board.

if you think im making any mistakes pls tell me as your opinion matters to me.

 

[EarthDog]

i am thinking months down the road of adding 2x Gen4 2TB NVMe's and run in raid 0 for all my games.

There's little to no point in doing R0 for games. Double the cost for almost no gains in that activity.

if you think im making any mistakes pls tell me as your opinion matters to me.

Naa, nothing glaringly wrong. You just went from budget build and saying one thing Friday to buying the least tangible (as in you'll feel nothing compared to 4.0) 'fastest', and expensive, part in a 5.0 M.2, lol.

 

[deathstar13]

i got paid Friday night as to a bit why i went in deep. Gotcha on the Raid 0 and ill just stick 2 Gen4's down there. Its crazy how big games are now.
My laptop i thought was ok with 512GB as ive been gaming on it with all low settings on 1080P but the drive could only hold 3 games. Its a Gen3 board so i can actually steal my Gen4 2Tb out of it as one i have my gaming rig up and running i can uninstall my games and just use it as a web station.
i just bit the bullet on my ram, i really need to stop spending or i wont be eating this month lol
Specs on these sticks are killer for the price.

TEAMGROUP T-Create Expert CL30 Overclocking 10L DDR5 32GB Kit (2 x 16GB) 6000MHz (PC5-48000) Intel XMP 3.0 & AMD Expo Compatible Desktop Memory Module Ram Black

Amazon.com

i still need to buy a PSU, NVMe drive, Monitor and GPU

 

[deathstar13]

The build is getting at the point id say its 75% done.
I do need advice on a gpu since im no longer doing a budget system, My plan was a RX7600 XT 16GB GPU.
i feel Nvidia is overpriced but i will look at it but id rather stay with Radeon.
So id like to stay under $4-$500 for the GPU.

I just ordered a Corsair RM1200x PSU as i want to not make it the last item i buy so i can take my time with cable managment.
My plans on my drives is a Gen5 1TB main drive for windows and then Gen4 with Dram cache 1x4TB or 2x2TB game drives.
would 1x4TB be faster than 2x2TB drives in game loads?
after that its just a monitor purchase and a Windows 11 Lite install.

I just counted i have 10 fans including the psu fan coming. Looks like my case is made from fans! lol
Crap i forgot the fan thats going on my Gen5 drive so its 11 fans.

 

[JLK03F150]

I do need advice on a gpu since im no longer doing a budget system, My plan was a RX7600 XT 16GB GPU.
i feel Nvidia is overpriced but i will look at it but id rather stay with Radeon.
So id like to stay under $4-$500 for the GPU.

You said you don't game, but do you do tasks that can benefit from cuda cores in an nvidia card? Programs like blender, handbrake, autodesk, etc. If not, then AMD is for you. Newegg currently has an RX 7700 XT for $499 on sale.

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-gv-r77xtgaming-oc-12gd-amd-radeon-rx-7700-xt-12gb-gddr6/p/N82E16814932654

Edit: You might want to increase your budget to $600 & see if you can get an RX 9070, which releases tomorrow at $550 base price + tax & maybe a tariff add-on. Or wait for the Rx 9060.

 

[EarthDog]

I just ordered a Corsair RM1200x PSU...

Tell me you light your fireplace with $100 bills without telling me you light your fireplace with hundred dolla' billz?

would 1x4TB be faster than 2x2TB drives in game loads?

Assuming similar speeds of the drives. Nope! And even if they were somehow slower... not without counting. See how small the difference is from NVMe SSD to SATA-based, even?

There are a lot of vids out there.