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On the fence. New Intel build.

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Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
I'm not sure what to do here with Zen only supporting Win 10, that pretty much leaves me with AMD FX and Phenom II CPU's for AMD, vs the multitudes of platforms from Intel.

I am planning on buying a GTX 1070, but I can't help but think my 1090t will bottleneck it badly plus I have a feeling the CPU is showing it's age vs newer CPUs.
So I'm not sure if I should buy an 8 core FX and stick with AMD since I dumped a LOT of money into the motherboard and watercooling or give Intel one last shot with an i7 build.

I mostly game, heavily modded Minecraft, Skyrim, Warframe and Dolphin emulator but I would like to get into newer titles soon so I'm unsure if my 1090t can keep up. (I like to run with all the eye candy on) I will also be upgrading to 1080p, maybe higher with a wall mount monitor, just not sure when. (currently on SXGA+)

If I go Intel, it must be worth it. Must overclock well (I don't want a repeat of that 3570K I had), must be an i7 because this will be the last major upgrade for many years.


TL;DR:
Basically, the AMD rig in the sig is aging and I feel I'm missing out in some games preformance wise hence I want to know if I should switch to Intel or try an 8 core AMD FX.
 
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caddi daddi

Godzilla to ant hills
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
is it bottlenecking your 780?
weather my 980ti's are in the 4790K or the 1100t, my eyes can't tell.

just thinking a bit, dx12 I think I have read will be win 10 only, so newest titles will be win 10 for full eye candy.
 
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OP
Silver_Pharaoh

Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
is it bottlenecking your 780?
weather my 980ti's are in the 4790K or the 1100t, my eyes can't tell.

just thinking a bit, dx12 I think I have read will be win 10 only, so newest titles will be win 10 for full eye candy.
I'm not 100% sure. I know Minecraft loads up one core on the 1090t to 75% or so while the others hover around 35%. GPU usage is low as well. I'll double check some other games.


Just browsing the CPU benches at Anandtech, the 1090t is weak compared to the Intel i7s from 3rd gen and up... Maybe I'm looking at this wrong?
Yeah.. No DX12. That's fine. DX11 is fine for me.
 

caddi daddi

Godzilla to ant hills
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
so would I but, for the longer term if what he has will limp him out another processor generation, he gets more years for his dollars.
 
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Silver_Pharaoh

Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
What was bad about the i5 3570K? I would go with the sky lake i7 6700k for the future.
Mine didn't overclock for beans. Barely 4.2Ghz stable. The 1090t is better at gaming for me than the 3570K. The FX6300 I had was a "sidegrade" from that same 3570K. That's why I ditched Intel and stuck with AMD.
so would I but, for the longer term if what he has will limp him out another processor generation, he gets more years for his dollars.
Lot of money is in this platform yeah...
But I'd keep all the watercooling gear for an Intel build. Just need a new CPU block. so I'd at least "recover" a few hundred $$ that way.
 

caddi daddi

Godzilla to ant hills
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
you shouldn't need a block, your ek should have come with the brackets or you might be able to get them from ek.
 
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Silver_Pharaoh

Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
you shouldn't need a block, your ek should have come with the brackets or you might be able to get them from ek.
I have the EK Supremacy MX AMD version... I can upgrade it to teh full blown Supremacy MX IIRC. Not sure if EK still sells said upgrade kit?
Not sure why I didn't put that in the sig! Fixed it now though :)
 

Vishera

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
If you're worried about cost, AMD is...okay with the 8350. If you have good enough water equipment, you can even get the 9590 if you want raw clocks. But Haswell systems aren't that hard to build with used parts, and look at this...

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-vs-AMD-FX-9590/2384vs1812

So, yeah. And if you have the money to spare there's always X99 and Broadwell/Haswell-E. a 5960X or 6900 will DESTROY any 8xxx or 9xxx CPU. The trouble is getting on the platform on a budget. Even the 5320k and 6800k will do you good. But with Intel, you don't need to get a 6 core to match a 6 core AMD. The "consumer tier" i7 lineup will do you just fine. If you're just replacing core components, such as mobo and CPU, I say go with Haswell instead of waiting for Zen. Why? Because with Haswell you can keep DDR3. Zen requires DDR4.
 
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Silver_Pharaoh

Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
If you're worried about cost, AMD is...okay with the 8350. If you have good enough water equipment, you can even get the 9590 if you want raw clocks. But Haswell systems aren't that hard to build with used parts, and look at this...

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-vs-AMD-FX-9590/2384vs1812

So, yeah. And if you have the money to spare there's always X99 and Broadwell/Haswell-E. a 5960X or 6900 will DESTROY any 8xxx or 9xxx CPU. The trouble is getting on the platform on a budget. Even the 5320k and 6800k will do you good. But with Intel, you don't need to get a 6 core to match a 6 core AMD. The "consumer tier" i7 lineup will do you just fine. If you're just replacing core components, such as mobo and CPU, I say go with Haswell instead of waiting for Zen. Why? Because with Haswell you can keep DDR3. Zen requires DDR4.

I was originally wanting to get a true hex core from Intel and possibly DDR4.

If i go with Haswell, how much am i missing out preformance and future proofing wise by not getting DDR4 and a hex core?
 

Vishera

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
I was originally wanting to get a true hex core from Intel and possibly DDR4.

If i go with Haswell, how much am i missing out preformance and future proofing wise by not getting DDR4 and a hex core?

Skylake is about a 15% IPC and general performance improvement over Haswell, so you can imagine Broadwell is less than that. Many people say AMD is better for multitasking and rendering because of the additional "cores" (you've heard about how AMD FX doesn't really have 8 cores, but rather 4 modules with 2 cores that share a cache right?) and they're right. But if you're not rendering, then a hex core might give you a 10% boost over a quad core, especially when you're talking Broadwell-E or Haswell-E over normal Haswell. It could be more in some ganes, but honestly, Dolphin doesn't use more than 2 cores. I play Minecraft with 140 mods with what basically equates to high details, minus some eye candy. I've played on an i5-4460 and a 5320k. The difference made by the CPU was negligible, I'd guarantee it. What made the difference was most likely the 980ti that system had. Skyrim and Warframe I don't know about. And the big thing about DDR4 seems to be native support for speeds over 2GHz, whereas with DDR3, going over 2 G's meant you were overclocking most of the time, or dropping a buttload on the kits that came at 2133 or 2400. I'm sure there's probably some kind of nitty gritty improvement on the structuring of the chips and how they use the silicon but real world performance wise I'm not sure it matters. Like Blaylock has said, for certain tasks, DDR3 or 4 doesn't matter. The games that came out before DDR4 that are still relevant today seem to run better because of better GPU's and slightly better CPU's, not anything to do with ram. :shrug:
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Skylake isn't even close to a 15% bump over Haswell.. a few %: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-6700k-6600k-ddr4-ddr3-ipc-6th-generation/23
When we ratchet the CPUs back up to their regular, stock clockspeeds, we see a gap worth discussing. Overall at stock, the i7-6700K is an average 37% faster than Sandy Bridge in CPU benchmarks, 19% faster than the i7-4770K, and 5% faster than the Devil’s Canyon based i7-4790K.

Overall, Skylake is not an earth shattering leap in performance. In our IPC testing, with CPUs at 3 GHz, we saw a 5.7% increase in performance over a Haswell processor at the same clockspeed and ~ 25% gains over Sandy Bridge. That 5.7% value masks the fact that between Haswell and Skylake, we have Broadwell, marking a 5.7% increase for a two generation gap.

Rendering speeds from quad with HT to hex with HT is a lot more than 10% too (assuming the same clocks - the link here is stock for stock with 6800K down 400MHz): http://www.anandtech.com/show/10337...6900k-6850k-and-6800k-tested-up-to-10-cores/6
 
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Silver_Pharaoh

Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Skylake isn't even close to a 15% bump over Haswell.. a few %: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9483/intel-skylake-review-6700k-6600k-ddr4-ddr3-ipc-6th-generation/23




Rendering speeds from quad with HT to hex with HT is a lot more than 10% too (assuming the same clocks - the link here is stock for stock with 6800K down 400MHz): http://www.anandtech.com/show/10337...6900k-6850k-and-6800k-tested-up-to-10-cores/6

Thanks E_D. So DDR4 isn't all that much better than good clocking DDR3 (kinda figured) and it seems like it's not worth the money to go with DDR4 + Skylake vs older Intel gens.
So that leaves Broadwell, Devil's Canyon or Haswell as possible Intel choices?
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
If you're unsure why not wait for Kaby Lake ? ~10% IPC over Skylake plus a few other improvements. A 7700k 4c/8t would hold you nicely for a few years :)
 
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Silver_Pharaoh

Silver_Pharaoh

Likes the big ones n00b Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
If you're unsure why not wait for Kaby Lake ? ~10% IPC over Skylake plus a few other improvements. A 7700k 4c/8t would hold you nicely for a few years :)

Win 10. Thats why. I do not wish to ever use that piece of software.

That leaves Skylake as the latest Intel platform i can use with Windows 7 and it seems its bot really worth it over Devils Canyon and Haswell unless in reading EarthDog's articles wrong.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
If you have the budget, I don't see a point in the older tech. The only price difference comes in ddr3 vs ddr4, and the cpu....which isn't much at all.
 

wingman99

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
If you're unsure why not wait for Kaby Lake ? ~10% IPC over Skylake plus a few other improvements. A 7700k 4c/8t would hold you nicely for a few years :)

From what I read the instructions per cycle (IPC) is staying the same only the clock speed is going up. Do you have some benchmarks links?
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Win 10. Thats why. I do not wish to ever use that piece of software.

That leaves Skylake as the latest Intel platform i can use with Windows 7 and it seems its bot really worth it over Devils Canyon and Haswell unless in reading EarthDog's articles wrong.

If you have the budget, I don't see a point in the older tech. The only price difference comes in ddr3 vs ddr4, and the cpu....which isn't much at all.

Totally in agreement with Win10 and yes there's little improvement from a 4790k to a 6700k but it's still noticeable or no one would tell you to buy it. Being newer tech you will have more options if you ever decide to upgrade and bear in mind ddr4 is quickly becoming the norm :thup:

Here is a comparison, in several games you see a massive (20fps-30fps) difference between stock 4790k-6700k while others is roughly the same : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDo-j00vUtw

From what I read the instructions per cycle (IPC) is staying the same only the clock speed is going up. Do you have some benchmarks links?

http://wccftech.com/intel-kaby-lake-desktop-lineup-leak/ - "7th Gen Kaby Lake (+10% IPC compared to Skylake)"