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Patent Q: the Gentle Typhoon

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OP
ehume

ehume

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
So why do you ask that question?
I would like to see imitators sooner rather than later. The Titan Kukri looks like a GT but does not perform like one. The closest fan to it is the San Ace "Silent" series, which is a few dollars more per fan, and still not quite as good as the GT -- I know because I have a range of both.

Specifically, I'd like to see a 140mm fan made on the same principles as the 120mm GT. That would mean that the maker had access to the GT's IP. But the GT's intellectual property is locked up in patents covering the blade shape, the motor, and maybe the impeller as well.

GT's have been available since the 2000's. I assume they were patented before that. In the US, patents expire after 20 years. If patents where the fans are made also expire in 20 years, it means that we will have to wait until the 2020's to see imitations that perform like the real thing, and we will have to wait that long to see new fans based on the expired patents, like a 140mm fan.

So, when?
 
OP
ehume

ehume

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
He wants a 140mm version

Yes. Besides, I have all the Scythes from 500 to 1850, 3000 and 4150 rpm; group buy 2150 rpm fans; and a PWM 2150.I don't have anything in 140mm that is comparable. I have Noctua, Thermalright and NZXT fans in that size. They are pretty good. I'd like to see a 140mm GT fan though.
 

t1nm4n

Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Location
Texas
Couldn't you just reverse engineer and 3d print yourself the blade and stick on a motor that woudl fit. I'd be willing to say, you could probably make a better fan that whats out there by taking the best from all fans and printing your own cages and blades, for personal use of course.
 

||Console||

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2004
All the fans in the link were 120mm fans. As I said, the NF-A14, the NF-A15, the TY-14x, the NZXT all are among the best 140mm fans. I'd like to see a 140mm fan using Gentle Typhoon IP.

Yea I know . Just posting a place I know has a good selection on gt 120mms
 

Bluefalcon13

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
All the fans in the link were 120mm fans. As I said, the NF-A14, the NF-A15, the TY-14x, the NZXT all are among the best 140mm fans. I'd like to see a 140mm fan using Gentle Typhoon IP.
Just curious, but which of the NZXTs are we talking about? The FN series seems kinda meh to me (balance between pressure and airflow), and the FZ series has issues pushing air through my exhaust (exhaust slots in the NZXT S340 case, top and back they are fairly restrictive) slots due to not enough pressure.
 
OP
ehume

ehume

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Couldn't you just reverse engineer and 3d print yourself the blade and stick on a motor that woudl fit. I'd be willing to say, you could probably make a better fan that whats out there by taking the best from all fans and printing your own cages and blades, for personal use of course.

Patent is not copyright. There is no 'fair use' doctrine. Patents are more iron-clad than that: no use whatsoever unless you pay a license fee that the patent holder agrees to accept.

On the other hand, patents are of limited duration and do not depend on the longevity of their creators. Patents expire. I was trying to determine when the GT patents expire.
 
OP
ehume

ehume

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Just curious, but which of the NZXTs are we talking about? The FN series seems kinda meh to me (balance between pressure and airflow), and the FZ series has issues pushing air through my exhaust (exhaust slots in the NZXT S340 case, top and back they are fairly restrictive) slots due to not enough pressure.
The FX 140 V2 has the same impeller -- complete with blades -- as do the Thermalright TY-140, TY-143 and TY147A, both square-framed and round-framed. I have measured the sound pressure levels and the CFM outputs of all of those fans. They are not quite as good as the Noctua NF-A14 and NF-A15, but they cost half as much. There are no other fans that do as well. Check out this review for direct comparisons. Check out this review for all the 140mm PWM fans I could evaluate (5th chart).
 

Bluefalcon13

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
The FX 140 V2 has the same impeller -- complete with blades -- as do the Thermalright TY-140, TY-143 and TY147A, both square-framed and round-framed. I have measured the sound pressure levels and the CFM outputs of all of those fans. They are not quite as good as the Noctua NF-A14 and NF-A15, but they cost half as much. There are no other fans that do as well. Check out this review for direct comparisons. Check out this review for all the 140mm PWM fans I could evaluate (5th chart).
Ahhh yeah their 'rad' fan. I should've bought those for my exhaust fans. Didn't think the grills would be so restrictive :/

I'm tempted to cut out the grills and put a wire fan-guard on the outside, but it hasn't escalated to that level yet. The FNs just seem a compromise fan: quiet, a little pressure, a little flow, but mostly just quiet. I think the FZs would be decent without the mesh on these exhaust ports :/. They are pretty quiet, and move some air, if their are no restrictions.
 

bing

Low Profile Senior
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Location
Indonesia
All the fans in the link were 120mm fans. As I said, the NF-A14, the NF-A15, the TY-14x, the NZXT all are among the best 140mm fans. I'd like to see a 140mm fan using Gentle Typhoon IP.

Take my comment with grain of salt, as I'm not an expert on these, but here are my observations.

Nidec GT fan is unique, just take one and using a measurement tape, and measure the length of the blade from the center hub to the edge, either inner or outer part of the blade.

Now do it again with other ordinary fan, you will see GT blade's length is quite longer, and IMO, this shape creates an unique noise timbre that is not annoying, to my ear (subjective of course), its like GT is shifting the generated noise from high frequency/pitch which is quite annoying and noticeable, into lower freq (aka more bassy/basey ? is this even the right term ? :screwy:) which more tolerable.

Again, observe the plastic material that the GT impeller is made of, it is also very unique, very stiff and quite tough. As the blade's length is quite significant from the center hub, it must be strong yet light, otherwise the shape of blade will deform during chopping the air and probably also from the centrifugal outward force while spinning.

All those China made fans, personally I have never seen the impeller's material is the same league as GT has, CMIIW.

Now, if you watch GT fan above 2150 rpm models, Nidec engineers made an unique changes, at these high speed GTs which are starting from 3000 up to 5400 rpm, they "HAVE TO" add the extra ring (see below attached photo), other wise at that high speed and high stress level at the blades, the unique shape that made the low noise yet quite a performance in pushing air will be no longer sustainable.

Remember, this even with the advanced plastic material technology and experience that Nidec has. And Nidec is categorized as 1st tier fan producer in the world.

2119aqb.jpg

Now, moving forward as your wish, we all know that Noctua or either Thermalright or any other PC based cooling brands, they never manufacture those fans they sell, they just hire some factories in China to build their product, yes, some are quite good as you mentioned.

But again, those Chinese fan manufacturers, personally, I have doubt they have the resources to do the R&D like Nidec did for GT, especially on the advance plastic material, and the impeller design "effectiveness" in pushing air vs noise, that is needed to increase the fan diameter into 14cm size.

The only manufacturers that I believe that are in par with Nidec that are capable of doing such investment in R&D are like Sanyo Denki, EBM and probably Delta.

But alas, these big fan makers are never interested in PC cooling as its insignificant compared to their core business that supply mainly industrial fan needs.

Personally, I don't think GT fan at 14 cm size will coming soon, even the manufacturer has the Nidec's GT IP, the PC cooling market is way too small for them to invest in the R&D and the advance material for the impeller.

My 2 cents worth.



EDIT :

Just watch below photo on how Nidec reduced the blade's count and add the reinforcement ring once the fan speed above 2150 rpm, actually 3000 rpm from 2150 rpm is not that much right ?

But why all the troubles making another different plastic molding for the impeller for the >= 3000 rpm GT ?

But I can imagine the centrifugal force, material stiffness and other complex technical aspects increasing from 12 cm to 14 cm size, its will be quite technological challenge, and the "cost" too, IMO.

Photo of my GT families from the left to right : 1850 rpm , 2150 rpm and 5400 rpm
 
Last edited:

Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
shifting the generated noise from high frequency/pitch which is quite annoying and noticeable, into lower freq (aka bassy, is this even the right term ? ) which more tolerable.

That makes sense, in the same way the distortion in tube amplified audio is lower frequency distortion, adding what many find to be a pleasing sonic signature.