PC Upgrade, Temperatures not Reported Properly

[CgS Drone]

bobo99, wonder if the bios is messed up and throwing F temps instead of C temps and its saying its to high for C. In the bios I am assuming like most boards you can change between F and C. Can you change it to F and see what it reports?

Maybe Flash the bios to see if that clears it up????

Edit: reread the temps you posted it would be to cold for F temps. Hmmm. Still wonder if a flash could clean it up, nothing to lose giving it a try before sending it back.

 

[bobo99]

YOU CgS DRone deserve a beer.

I re flashed the bios, so everything was reset to defaults.
this also reset the overclock, (Which I shouldnt of had on while trouble shooting, but anyways)

Now I am running at 62 degrees @ stock voltage and speed, which is 1.32 V and 3.2 GHZ. This is still a little high, however with an offset of -8 degrees (which seems to be common for these boards, something about protection) That puts core down to 54.

Which is still on the higher side, but maybe the cooler really isn't seated properly... will post back when I take care of that !

 

[m0r7if3r]

that 62 is load, right?

 

[bobo99]

Yes, sorry,.

62 load, idle at around 46, which is more realistic. (WITH OFFSET of -8)

Compared to my old case I have much less airflow, but I'm really surprised that its this much of a difference on the actual core. A couple 200mm are in the mail to hopefully remedy this.

 

[Wayward_Son]

I'd still be concerned. Why would ASUS design in a temp offset to read higher? That seems less an engineered feature and more a design flaw.

 

[m0r7if3r]

It's an AMD thing, not an ASUS thing, and I still don't think TJMax is 90 for that processor...have you donegoogling on that?

 

[bobo99]

Alright, so after a reseating of the heat sink, its about the same as after the bios reflash (reflashed the same biosof the same bios)

Here are a few pictures of my work... There was a little "extra" thermal paste left over at the top right... Criticism is welcome, and maybe necessary
Procedure:
1) Cleaned CPU and Heatsink with nailpolish remover. There was some hardened paste left on the heatsink that I couldnt quite get off.
2) Applied a rice sized glob of the noctua paste.
3) Used old credit card to smear it all over the place "evenly". The stuff is pretty viscous so, I did my best
4) Applied the heatsink, and turned each screw individuallly, 1 turn, alternating between the two, until the did not want to freely turn anymore. (Says to do so in the instructions, and to not over tighten)

The temps are now.. 46-47 idle.. and 67 load... Now somewhere I read these boards need, require, an offset of around 8. So an offset of 8 would put that at 38/59.... very much on the higher side...

I'm getting a 200mm intake for tomorrow and see what that changes... if anything.

The strange thing is jsut watching the numbers roll.. on the previous board/case configuration the numbers would start at 35 and slowly work up to 45... over the course of 10 second.

These numbers go from "46" to "62" within 2-3 seconds. Hell I even opened the window and let in some -5, -10 degree air. And the temperatures arn't reacting at all. I'm more and more convinced that the temps are being reported wrong.

(sorry for the god awful pictures, they're look better not uploaded)

 

[QuietIce]

What does Probe II show for temps? I know it won't report core temp but it'll show CPU socket and board.

It's an AMD thing, not an ASUS thing,

It's an ASUS thing, it may only be ASUS/AMD but it's ASUS. Other AMD boards don't have issues like this but I can find at least three different ASUS models that have had reporting issues using third-party programs like CoreTemp and HWMonitor (which is why I suggested using Probe II).

and I still don't think TJMax is 90 for that processor...have you donegoogling on that?

Tctl Max is 70 for the Phenom II X4/X6's. Tctl Max = Tjmax from Core Temp, not to be confused with Tcase Max, which is even lower.

 

[bobo99]

Hey QuietIce,

Probe II, says CPU socket temp is 45ish idle, and at around 50 after about 3-4 minutes full load, MB at 26, and NB at 41.

These values seem to match what HWMonitor is giving me. However for Coretemp, I'm getting 67.

Could this be a driver issue by any chance? When I did the migration, the OS that was on the SSD from before let me boot into windows, so I just updated some new drivers, and decided to go with that. No fresh install.

 

[QuietIce]

HWMonitor and CoreTemp don't agree on the core temp? That's odd.

 

[Conumdrum]

Coretemp reads directly off the chip, it's a digital sensor in the chip, so not a driver issue. You can read up why 'aftermarket temp proggies are so much better. It AMD, but pretty sure on this.


Can you remount, redo the grain of rice to be between a grain of rice and a small pea, place the cooler on the cup and just tighten it down? Your spread is very very thin and might be too thin. Let the HS and CPU do the squish. Your mounting method seems to be good, maybe a bit more tightening wouldn't hurt. It's not a nekkid silicon chip like long ago..

And could you resize a bit smaller? make thumbnails for the close view. Not to worry, I know your busy. Lets fix the issue first.........

 

[CgS Drone]

Can you remount, redo the grain of rice to be between a grain of rice and a small pea, place the cooler on the cup and just tighten it down? Your spread is very very thin and might be too thin. Let the HS and CPU do the squish. Your mounting method seems to be good, maybe a bit more tightening wouldn't hurt. It's not a nekkid silicon chip like long ago..

And could you resize a bit smaller? make thumbnails for the close view. Not to worry, I know your busy. Lets fix the issue first.........

Agree with this statement, you may be able to get away with a spread that thin with a lapped cpu but if there is even the slightest edge on the processor then a spread that thin will not make contact with the heatsink causing high temps.

 

[bobo99]

Sorry wrote that when it was late.

I read that these boards need an offset, so I incorporated -8 degrees.
I"ll start quoting actual numbers now.

Turned on the computer 5 minutes ago, full load, cpu core at 65, cpu at 49.

 

[bobo99]

Well I have to say guys, that I didn't really believe the whole "extent" as to which the application of the thermal process matters.

I took your guys' advice and tried the 'seating" test, to see where the thermal paste is being distributed.

Process:
1) cleaned processor and heatsink to the best of my ability.
2) Grain of rice/ a pea sized glob of thermal paste
3) secure heat sink,
4) take heatsink off, and be shocked

Pictures should be rather self explanatory. Tough to upload them, but I tried a resize.

The first movie reference that came up in my head was from armagedon when the russian draws a straw and says "is this good, or bad"

Clearly thats god awful.

So Clearly the outside is not making any thermal paste contact which is bad.
So I cleaned, again, and threw on some thermal paste and manually spread it using my (covered) finger, trying to get more to the outside.

Didn't take a picture of that but the results speak for themselves.
I am curerntly idleing at 35, and 46 load. NO OFFSETS

These are the temps I am more familiar with.

Now I guess its a question of how much further I'm willing to go. Clearly either the mounting bracket isn't quite straight, the cpu surface has become warn and is not straight... and I could swear that visually the surface of the heatsink does not look straight.

So next steps would be to lap the processor and heatsink... or to get even more fancy with the thermal paste.



Finally

 

[Wayward_Son]

Ahh, good deal!

I'm not a big fan of lapping processors unless you don't care about warranties or resale values, but I always lap my heatsinks. Ever done it?

Glad your problem is solved. Start clocking!


EDIT: Judging by the pictures, I'd say your problem isn't that you need to lap so much as that you just weren't using enough TIM. I would still lap the heatsink, of course.

 

[bobo99]

I've overclocked though, so isn't the warranty already gone ?

I've never even heard of lapping until 10 minutes ago. This guy seems to know what he's doing, I'm guessing process would be similar on the heatsink end ?

Now that I have a better idea of what needs to be done, and where some more paste needs to go... I'll try and get these temps down a little more.
200 mm case fan is in the mail, and the adapter bracket to rotate the heatsink by 90 degrees is on its way too (from noctua)

 

[Wayward_Son]

I wouldn't lap your CPU until you've done a couple heatsinks. If you aren't careful you can ruin a good heatsink with a bad lapping job. Better to practice on a couple old heatsinks than ruin your $150 processor. I really don't recommend lapping the CPU until:

1. You're unsatisfied with your load temps and you've already got all the airflow your case can push and you have already lapped your heatsink and you really NEED that last little edge.

2. You've got a couple practice lapping jobs under your belt.

Better to stick with what you've got for now and see how far you can push it. Wait for your 200mm fan to come in and see what your load temps are like with the highest stable overclock you can achieve. If your temps are getting uncomfortable with a lot of voltage, and you want to bring it down a couple degrees C, THEN lap your heatsink. If you still need another degree or two, THEN maybe it's time to lap your processor. But it's probably not necessary. I think the only people that go that far are either watercooling or benching with dry ice or something extreme. For air cooling, lapping the heatsink is really as far as I think any sane person needs to go.

 

[bobo99]

At the moment wayward son, I dont think its necessary ! I reseated it, with a better application of the thermal compound, and wow, am I impressed.

I applied more at the edges, and less in the middle...

idle at 31 load at 39... NOW we start overclocking cheers guys, and thanks for all the help.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Since I moved to this new board and case the first thing I noticed was INSANELY high temperatures "reported" by the motherboard.

Do not use Speed Fan to get the temperatures!

Speed Fan often reports insanely high temperatures.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Probe II is probably using the darn socket sensor, which is archaic, like it's freaking 2001!