PCI-Express RAID-5 Card - Opinions?

[Randyman...]

PCI-Express RAID-5 Card for ~$400 - Opinions?

I want to run a RAID-5 with 4x 320GB Seagate SATA-II Perp HD's on a P5WD2-Premium (955x/ICH7R - PC#1 in my Sig). I see most of the ~$200 cards get pretty slow Write Times (like slower than a single SATA HD). And the onboard ICH7R Southbridge (and even the ICH8R IIRC) are pitifully slow for RAID-5 Writes (like 20MB/s IIRC ).

What is the enrty level of the faster RAID-5 PCI-Express cards? I'd like to maintain 100MB/s Writes or there abouts (the drives average at 70MB/s each). I currently run 3 of the 320GB's in RAID-0 on the ICH7R, and it is really really fast - but I want a Hardware RAID-5... Hopefully something I could transfer over to a C2D MoBo early next year.

I'd guess I'm looking for something with an XoR processor and with its own RAM? 4 - 6 ports, SATA-II is preferred for NCQ Capabilities. I'm not worried about Battery Backups for the Array - as my PC is on a 1400VA APC UPS ... I will boot off the Southbridge RAID Array - so this card does NOT need to be bootable if that matters (RAID-5 for Data only)...

I also see some "4x" and "8x" PCI-Express cards. Will these work in the 2nd PEG port (as long as I am not using 2 Video Cards). Will these x4 and x8 cards wirk in a standard x1 PCI-E slot if need be?

I'm ready to drop some cash soon, and I know this is the place to come for Hardware suggestions. Looking to stay below $400 if possible...

Thanks!!!

 

[Patched]

If you're looking for a pci-e 4x slot xor raid card check out Promise EX4350 (4 sata ports) or EX8350 (8 sata ports), can be found for $300 to $400 online. A good card but not the fastest.

Areca ARC-1210 PCI-Express 8x (4 sata ports) for around $300 online. The 8 sata port version is almost $500 tho. Faster of the two vendors but for a home server you probally won't notice it.

I used both vendors 8 sata port cards in a PEG slot (2 different MBs) but the MB(bios) probally plays a big factor in it too. The pci-e 4x or 8x won't work in a slot smaller since the slot won't be physically able to except it (usually)

 

[Randyman...]

Thanks for the info, mang. So, none of the 4X or 8X cards will work in a 1X port? I guess that makes sense since PCI Express is a serial bus . I'm sure any C2D MoBo I get will have SLI/Crossfire, and I'm 99% certain I would never use both as Video ports - so I am not too worried, but it is a concern none the less. I guess it is that, or a PCI-X MoBo if I want a fast card.

I can do with 4 ports, as I could always get the 500GB Perp's when I need a capacity increase. I'll check those cards out.

Do you know the approx Write speeds of these cards with four fast HD's in RAID-5? If these are still only capable of matching the performance of a single SATA HD on its own, then I'd still have to consider sticking with the Southbridge RAID-0 and a Back-up regiment I currently utilize (It's really fast )...

I have to justify this $400 investment against the speeds I'm looking at. I might have to look to the next level of RAID-5 Cards to be satisfied with Write speeds - which cards would that be?

 

[MVC]

Well.... I've got 8 WD 250GB drives in a RAID 5 array using an Areca Arc-1220 and I was going to benchmark them to give you "real world" read/write speeds. But, I can't find any benchmarking utilities that will see the network drive in Windows. (The array is in a server running Linux and I haven't looked for Linux utilities to benchmark the array "locally". For me, "real world" speed has to include the gigabit network the array is on.) So, if anyone knows of a utility than can benchmark the array over the network, let me know and I'll run the test.

Mark

 

[Randyman...]

If you wouldn't mind, you could copy a 1GB file to the array, and "Time" it... I doubt the Gigabit would limit the Write speeds - maybe the Reads...

I am really curious what these $300-$400 cards can do (Writes) with 4 fast Perp HD's. I'd guess the write speeds would not be all that different between a 4 drive RAID-5 and a 8 drive RAID-5 since this appears to be a Hardware Limitation? The 4 port (~$300) and 8 port (~$500) Areca cards use the same XoR Processor, right?

I know I can expect screaming Reads - even with Onboard RAID-5 - but those Writes seem to be a power-hungry process Fast writes don't seem to be cheap in RAID-5

 

[Patched]

http://www.areca.com.tw/products/html/pciE-sata.htm
different XoR processors for the 4 (IOP332) and 8 (IOP333) port versions

check out this thread for some write benchmarks on a couple of raid 5 cards
http://forums.storagereview.net/index.php?showtopic=23323

areca 1220 with 4 WD 4000YR 400gigs in raid 5
copy 2 gigs (folder with 12 files around the same size)
raid 5 array to a first gen raptor 74 - around 40 seconds
raptor 74 to the raid 5 array - a little under 40 sends
raid 5 array to itself - a little over 40 seconds
rounding errors since I used the system clock to time it

 

[MVC]

I took a file a little over a GB (a 1,048,574 KB VOB file from a DVD) and moved it from one system to the other, and then back again.

• Moving the file from the Windows system to Linux system with the RAID array the transfer took ~34 seconds (using the system clock).

• Moving the file back to the Windows system from the array took ~48 seconds (also using the system clock).

The original source drive is a Western Digital WD4000YR formated with NTFS, the gigabit network uses a Linksys switch and Cat 6 cable, the RAID 5 array is formated with XFS and Samba 3 does the translation.

Writing to the array was substantially faster, around 41% faster, than writing to the single drive. And, the network didn't seem to be a limiting factor in either direction.

Hope this helps,
Mark

 

[Randyman...]

Sure does, Mark! Thanks for your time and effort. That sounds like performance I can live with!

I'm reading up on the Links that "Patched" posted right now.

So, the Areca and the Promise are the 2 big players in this $300-$400 price-range?

And do you think the ARC-1210 4-Port (Intel IOP332 I/O processor) would be significantly slower than the ARC-1220 8-Port (Intel IOP333 I/O processor) that you use Mark? I wold not plan on going beyond 4 Drives - but if performance is really different - than it is something to consider. I also see the 1220 can do RAID-6. How does that compare to RAID-5 (speed-wise, and security of data).

Thanks a MILLION!!! You are making this much easier for me

 

[MVC]

I don't think the performance between the 4-port card and the 8-port card would be substantially different, at least not cards from the same manufacturer--comparisons between manufacturers would be a bit more difficult.

I never tried RAID 6. With 8 250GB drives (2TB) I ended up with a bit over 1.4TB of usable space using RAID 5. Raid 6 would have taken up a lot more space for redundancy and I wasn't willing to give up any more. The security of RAID 6 should be better than it is for RAID 5, but you will give up a lot of usable space to get it. The main decision you'll need to make is what you think the probability of loosing two drives at the same time is. I've lost two drives in the last ~20 years so I didn't think the chance of my loosing two at the same time was very high.

 

[Randyman...]

Yeah - I'm flying by the seat of my pants with the 3-Drive RAID-0 - so moving to RAID-5 should be PLENTY of redundancy for me .

You don't think the IOP332 processor would be noticably slower than the IOP333? Probably not enough to justify the extra ~$175, huh?

I saw one disturbing Review at Newegg - it said the 1210 would not be recognized with a 975 Chipset when running 2GB of RAM. He said anything other than 2GB was fine, but 2GB made the card un-detectable in BIOS. Anyone heard of such an issue (as I plan on geting a 975 MoBo, and transfering this to it later next year). I also see the packaged drivers are crap - but you can DL the newest ones to fix the XP BSOD Issues.

What about Vista support down the road? Are these cards still "current", or are they about to get replaced and put on the back burner as far as Driver Support goes? This kind of stuff is important now that Vista is Primetime...

Any other thoughts on the Areca 1210 or any other high-performance RAID-5 PCI-Express cards? Pros/Cons - or anything to look out for?

 

[Randyman...]

Sunday Bumpage

Anyone know about the Areca 1210 and the 975+2GB RAM issues?

Or any other FAST RAID-5/6 SATA-II PCI-e cards to consider below $500?

 

[Borderline]

I'm a big fan of 3wares new 9650SE series. Ill be trying the 9650SE-8LPML (which is the PCIe-4x 8-port version) soon.

I mentioned it because the RAID-5 and RAID-6 writes seem to be pretty stellar. Or at least according to this biased source: http://www.3ware.com/products/pdf_9650/9650SE_from_9590SE_product_transition.pdf


Also, I forgot to mention that the cheapest I froogled it for was $520.

 

[Randyman...]

I'll look into them. Fast Writes are what I'm hoping for

Any other input on the Areca problems when running a 975 Chipset and 2GB of RAM?

Thanks a ton

 

[Randyman...]

WOW! Those 3-Ware cards do look nice! I like the DDR2-533 RAM (upto 512MB ), and it even states that it will work in a 1x PCI-E Slot (how does that work out?).

The 8-Port is in the $500 range - so it will get a SERIOUS look by me for sure

Any compatibility issues I should know about? And what about future Vista Support? I'm still researching these on my own, too...

How do these Multi-Lane connectors interface to the HD's? My HD's will be in close proximity to the card - and I'd hate to think I'm going to need all kinds of adaptors and extra wires to clutter up my case??? I'd assume the Multi-Lane will require special cables that are not included? I just want regular SATA-II cables

EDIT/ADD: I found some info on the Multilane Cables - should not be an issue (and it appears the "Breakout" Cables are included!)

Where are you buying yours from, Borderline? These seem hard to find...

Thanks again

 

[Patched]

fyi on those 3-ware cards, the only pci-e 1x card is the 2 port version. The 4 and 8 port ones are pci-e x4. The ram size on those is fixed so you're stuck with 128MB (2 port) or 256MB (4 & 8 port) cards

 

[Randyman...]

Thanks, Patched. I can live with the 4x/8x PCI-e slot limitation (at least I hope - my future MoBo purchase will tell), and 256MB of RAM should be plenty for my applications (still way overkill - but that's my middle name )

What do you think about the 3-Ware 9650SE 8-Port versus the Areca 1220 8-Port? They are about the same cost ( ~$520, and I have pretty much decided to invest in an 8-port card for the long haul) - so what do you think about performance, drivers for XP, and future compatibility with Vista (not a dealbreaker by any means, but it is on my list).

Any other 8-Port cards in this $500 price point?

How long have those Areca cards been out? Just curious. It seems like the 3-Ware 9650SE is fairly recent with DDR2 RAM and all. The 9650SE is hyped to be a really fast card - but is it fairly reliable? I'd hope after spending $500 on a card I'd be more secure than with the Onboard RAID-0 I have now

The issue I read @ Newegg about the Areca 1210 and issues with a 975 Chipset and 2GB of RAM kind of steered me away from it. At the same time, I have not found a whole lot of info on the 3-Ware 9650SE on XP. I guess I need to dig some more.... The 3-Ware is also kind of tough to find in stock at the moment (not that I need this thing tomorrow)...

Thanks for your continued input! I do value it

(Edited my Pricing)

 

[Casix]

I visit these forums sometimes and saw this thread and decided to register and help you out a bit.

I have a Areca 1210 running on a Asus P5W DH Deluxe (a 975 Chipset) with 2GB of RAM, and it works fine.

I have the areca running with 4x Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200KS in RAID-5 with 64k stripe size, in the second pci-e slot because in the first slot i have my graphic card.
I did some benchmarks with 3 different programs, ATTO Disk Benchmark, HD Tach (Long bench) and HD Tune.
So just run those programs with the same settings as i did so you can compare it.

Hope this helps you

 

[Randyman...]

WOW. Thanks for that, Casix! You rock So no probs on a 975 with 2GB - that is good to hear. I assume you DL'ed the latest XP Drivers, too?

My 3-Drive RAID-0 array (in PC#1 in my sig) seems pretty close to yours in HD Tach (Reads), but ATTO seems way lower on my RAID-0 (Reads and writes); how is that possible? I would assume a Southbridge RAID-0 would still be faster than a RAID-5 (even with an XOR card) due to the Parity overhead and the finite bandwidth of each HD's being around 70MB/s (and I only have 3 drives in RAID-0). I guess that is the card's 256MB of RAM coming into play?

Looks good. Anyone have any simular data for the 3-Ware 9650SE?

 

[JCLW]

A few thoughts:

ATTO will only go up to 32MB chunks, so if your controller has more then 32MB of memory you're just starting to measure cache speed. This is unfortunate, as ATTO is one of the few programs that measures write speed.

The Promise and Areca cards use basically the same hardware (intel IOP330 based). The only difference is that the Areca firmware is a little more tuned/refined.

You can get multilane cables that plug into the card, but have four normal SATA ends to plug into four drives (I think you found this out already).

I know people have run Promise and Areca cards in 1x open ended slots (or cut the ends off) but you mileage may vary. It also depends on the board/BIOS manufacturer.

Cache memory speed isn't really that relevant - no matter what speed memory you have it'll be exponentially faster then the drives themselves.

Use ECC memory on the RAID card. And you'll want a UPS, so you can safely enable write back caching.

 

[Casix]

I assume you DL'ed the latest XP Drivers, too?

Yes.

I guess that is the card's 256MB of RAM coming into play?

The Areca 1210 i have 'only' has 128mb, the new version has 256mb, so if you order this card make sure you get the 256mb version.

I wanted to compare my result against this: http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=4750863&postcount=8
So thats why i used those settings in ATTO, and i allready thought it wass a bit strange that it wass faster than a 3x raptor raid 0.
So after reading JCLW's post i did the test again only with 1 difference, i changed the total length to 256 MB, hopefully this will give better "real world" speeds.