Planning on using 400x200x85 mm rad for 1st build. Is it a good choice?

[WildArmsfx]

Building my first loop and for various cost saving reasons I plan to use a 400x200x85 rad (Phobya_Xtreme_400_Radiator_-_85mm_Version_2_-_Full_Copper.). I want to get the best block and pump for reliability reason so saving cash on rad would be great. This rad comes in thinner sizes but they are actually more expensive. The 85mm version is only 100$ and was pretty cheap in comparison to other sizes. I have 5 good 200mm fans from an old build for a push pull config with a spare for back-up. It also fits my case perfectly on a top mount.

I plan on cooling a 9900k with maybe a 2080ti later on. The FTW3 has a pretty good stock air cooler and hits 2100, with 800+ on memory. So I dont think theres much benefit besides a significant amount of noise reduction with the 2080ti.

So my main two question are what would be the downside to such a large radiator? Can it cool both the gpu and cpu? Are pump/res combos reliable? With reliability as top priority, which cpu block, pump and res would you recommend?

I also plan to mount the rad externally. It fits on top of my case. My case already exhaust with two top mounted 200mm fans so it simplifies everything. Aesthetics is not important to me at all. I may build something beautiful in the future but I want to start easy. I plan on using soft tubing. I would also like to mount the res/pump combo outside so I can have a constant visual on flow. I game from the couch and wouldnt be able to see a flow meter, but figured bubbles in the res would show flow from a distance.

This is just the outcome of my window shopping. Feel free to correct me on anything. Thanks to everyone for reading!!!!!!!

 

[larryccf]

Not sure what you're hoping to accomplish but that thick of a rad is way overkill - go over to the EKWB web, they offer some pretty decent info on liquid cooling and specifically radiators. One thing that stuck out was that the thicker the rad, the law of diminishing returns sets in, because the airflow slows down by the time it reaches the far side of the radiator, and the thicker the rad, the more it's slowed down at the far side, and it's warmer as well, which means it's ability to absorb heat is diminished somewhat. I suspect folks that would use that rad are after that last increment of cooling capacity, no matter the cost.

2nd you're going to need a helluva fan to move air thru it - i hope you weren't planning on using 200mm fans, as they normally don't move that much air, ie cfm as they're all turning so slow, 800-900 rpm. Go over to the Noctua web, and look at their fans - the flow rate will be in metric terms, but you can google for the conversion to cfm (cubic feet / minute). You'll be surprised but a good 140mm fan can move nearly 2X the amount of air the 200mm fan can. Going with those 35mm thick fans that will turn 4000 rpm are going to work, but you're going to think a british harrier jet is landing on your desk.

3rd - what case are you planning to install this in and where in the case?

Take a look at your car's radiator - my toyota, with a 5.7 liter V8, the rad is barely 2 inches thick, and the water hitting it is @205 degrees F on a summer day. They achieve efficient cooling by increasing water flow as well as air flow. Your rad is not going to be seeing water temps anywhere near that high.

Personally, a good 50-55mm rad should be fine, and as your needs grow, you can add a radiator or two

fwiw

 

[caddi daddi]

he^^^^^^ is correct in a lot of ways, but........ a bigger rad is always better in my book.
A 3x120 rad will pretty much get you what you want, after the 3x120 rad, it's all about hitting the waterblock with all the coolest water you can get, yup like he^^^^^ said, for those that want to eak every little hertz out of the little pig.
I run 9x120 rads on some of my rigs, I like em big and thick with low speed fans and most of the time I don't even need the fans, till I game for a couple of hours.
my rads can run passive for quite a while.


as far as stuff, ek, xspc, aquacomputer all make good stuff.
I seem to prefer the look of the xspc stuff.
look for a D5 style pump, they seem to be quieter than the ddc style.
I run from a low of 700 litres per hour to a high of 1200 litres per hour pumps.
do select a pump/res combo with a reservoir at least 140 ml, much smaller and you can get a vortex and that will draw air into the cooler and we try to avoid that.

when you have it filled correctly you should not be able to tell it's flowing, we just don't want air in our coolers.

 

[godevskii]

There's nothing wrong going with that rad, the user says he's going push/pull so even if the fans are not very good with SP this rad is only 12 fpi, so a push/pull config will have no problems even on a 80mm thick rad.
Alphacool as their monsta rad's which are also 80mm thick and they perform very good.

 

[Witchdoctor]

On paper will have plenty of capacity. I don't know much about the specifics on that rad, but it looks like a beast

I have always been partial to EK products. as they preform well, look great and are reliable

Block

http://www.performance-pcs.com/ek-velocity-copper-acetal.html



pump/res combo

http://www.performance-pcs.com/ek-xres-140-ddc-3-2-pwm-elite-incl-pump.html

 

[Silver Surfer]

Consider this:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/alphacool-nexxxos-monsta-180mm-dual.html

http://www.performance-pcs.com/silv...180mm-case-fan-w-adustable-speed-control.html

This is one of the highest performing 180mm cooling fans you can get and it fits this radiator no problems, you will not need push/pull, one side is all you'll need.

I have a 180mm single Alphacool NexXxos Monsta 86mm thick, and one of these Silverstone fans and there's plenty of airflow out the other side at half the rpm capability.

200mm cooling fans are just not there yet static pressure wise, and that's what you need with the thick core rad, good static pressure!

 

[Alaric]

Just throwing this out there, as for never seeing 200F. That Intel chip can see 100C before throttling. That's 212F. 90C is 194F. 80C, a "good" temp stress testing is 176F.

 

[larryccf]

but what's the temp of the liquid coolant, 60C if that? We're talking about a new to LC, cooling initially a single CPU, who might add a GPU waterblock later - at which point it'd be so much easier and IMHO smarter to then add a 2nd rad. Radiator area, (not referring to thickness), air flow and liquid flow are the basic ingredients to heat dissipation - i used the example of my Toyota to simply demonstrate car mfgrs went for air and liquid flow to maximze heat transfer.

My system, that admittedly i still have to finish assembling, one rad up top is an alphacool 20mm thick, 240mm rad, and the rad in the front is a 36mm thick 280mm rad, so you could say i've got a 240mm radiator that's 56mm thick, with some excess left over, but twice the face area and hellaciously more air flow going thru the rads

just so much more efficient

but it boils down to whatever you feel the need for - one aspect i hadn't thought about, poster above mentioned his rad ran passive most of the time, so that is a benefit. But fin area is 16 per inch.

 

[Zerileous]

Remember the thicker rad is actually less expensive. Take a look here. 60mm radiators dominate performance. After 60mm the performance increase is not likely worth the extra cost (but remember the OP is saving money by going 85mm) but does increase in push-pull configuration.

There is some interesting discussion about fans, I really have no knowledge of the large fans, however for an 85mm radiator you would need decent amount of static pressure even in push/pull config.

One more note, you likely won't see bubbles or significant movement in your res. I wouldn't worry about a flow meter, most pumps come with an RPM cable you attach to your motherboard (yes its possible for the impeller to be clogged and the motor to still spin, but you'll likely notice the temps increasing rapidly as well).

@Alaric: sure the CPU might see those temps but if the water did we'd be pretty worried. The coolant in a car sees those temps easily however the block itself sees much higher. All of this said, comparing car radiators to PC radiators is less than ideal because cars operate with a much higher difference in water temperature over ambient. If you compare how much energy in heat a car radiator handles vs fin area, you'll see it's a lot more. Of course the radiator becomes more efficient the higher the liquid temperature is over ambient, but the water-block becomes less efficient.

 

[Alaric]

Oh, I know the rad won't see those temps, but I had a h100i fail (pump after the fans) and the waterblock was too hot to touch, along with the radiator. Certainly not common, but Murphy's Law and all that.

 

[godevskii]

one rad up top is an alphacool 20mm thick, 240mm rad, and the rad in the front is a 36mm thick 280mm rad, so you could say i've got a 240mm radiator that's 56mm thick, with some excess left over, but twice the face area and hellaciously more air flow going thru the rads

What?!?!?!? I get what you mean but that's not exactly how this works... Further more the user wants to save money, so why would he buy 2 rads and new fans if he already have fans and can get a single rad with same heat dissipation of 2 thinner ones for less money, not to mention that we don't know what case he has and if it fits various rad's inside. Also this rad is sufficient to cool a 9900k and rtx 2080ti.

 

[larryccf]

Zerilieos - the car rad example was offered solely to demonstrate the relative size of a radiator serving a much higher btu input, and that car mfgrs chose airflow and liquid flow rates to meet the demand, not hugemongous radiators.

A good portion of this decision is personal, but the OP is obviously new to LC, and right now he's going to be cooling a single cpu and later add in a waterblock for a GPU. I liken that huge radiator to someone who is planning on having a family, buying a short bus to carry those yet unborn kids, and to me 400 X 200 X 85 is a small bus. Yet seating cost per passenger might be cheaper, but how much has he saved when he's only going to add a GPU.

Again, this is just my opinion

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

What?!?!?!? I get what you mean but that's not exactly how this works... Further more the user wants to save money, so why would he buy 2 rads and new fans if he already have fans and can get a single rad with same heat dissipation of 2 thinner ones for less money, not to mention that we don't know what case he has and if it fits various rad's inside. Also this rad is sufficient to cool a 9900k and rtx 2080ti.

not sure how "this isn't how this works" - given a choice between one 240mm radiator 56mm thick, or two rads 240 mm 28mm thick, the latter choice is going to dissipate heat into the ambient environment faster - you've got more airflow, ie cfm moving thru the two rads, even with higher fin count on those rads. And if the OP has a case big enough to accept a 400 X 200 rad i suspect he has room for a 2nd (or more) rad

 

[godevskii]

This is a discussion for another topic but how can you assume that you have more air flow because you have 2 rads? That depends on the fans, restriction of the surface area, thermal transfer efficiency etc... The user is putting the rad on top of the case, please analyze careful, the answer was given according to user specific requirements.

 

[Witchdoctor]

The way I read the OP is he is trying to utilize some 200mm fans he already has. So he is liking this beast radiator as it is a fair price point in his mind.

Are there better configs out there ? sure, ultimately he will be moving air across a coil, He will be alright in my estimation.

The way I read it is everything will be mounted old school external so he will not run into any fitment problems

Assuming he is getting that radiator and is going to utilize his fans, he is looking for some advice on the block, pump and res

 

[larryccf]

This is a discussion for another topic but how can you assume that you have more air flow because you have 2 rads? That depends on the fans, restriction of the surface area, thermal transfer efficiency etc... The user is putting the rad on top of the case, please analyze careful, the answer was given according to user specific requirements.

with less radiator to travel thru on each radiator, less air flow velocity is lost - plus there's the added benefit that by the time the air has reached the exit side of the rad, it hasn't been saturated with heat to the point of inefficient heat absorption. . The very fact others have indicated that a push-pull configuration will be necessary with that thick a rad would seem to confirm that others recognize that.

 

[godevskii]

Dude i dont know why im not getting trough to you, just read the topic from the beginning carefully, i don't want to be quoting anymore to make my point...

 

[larryccf]

Dude i dont know why im not getting trough to you, just read the topic from the beginning carefully, i don't want to be quoting anymore to make my point...

The OP's heading sez "Planning on using 400x200x85 mm rad for 1st build. Is it a good choice? "

2nd, in the actual sentence you remind me of an inaccurate assessment of the topic of this thread, you go on to state ".... but how can you assume that you have more air flow because you have 2 rads?" - I'm not sure how there could be any confusion of why / what i was responding to.

i am sharing your sentiment though, about "getting through to someone"

 

[godevskii]

I'm not sure how there could be any confusion of why

Because you are making an ASSUMPTION, it's neither wrong or right because it's dependent of things that you have not consider.

You stated that with 2 rads you have more air flow, that it's not a fact, it depends on the fans, speed of the fans, restriction of the rad and probably intake blockage.

 

[larryccf]

excuse me, but again you're stating my making a mistake that you are actually making. - you indicate air flow depended on fans, number of and configuration

it doesn't matter, as long as the two rad set up or the 85mm rad are given the same equal fan set up, the two rad setup will flow more air. Go over on the EKWB web and go thru their FAQ section as well as their blog - thicker rads slow the air flow down more than slim rads - that's a basic fact. With the slimmer rads having higher air velocity on the exit side of the rad than thicker rads, more air is going to have moved thru the radiator, as volume is a factor of velocity

but at least the OP has picked up some points to consider

 

[Zerileous]

Let's keep this civil. Remember we're trying to help the OP, not win an argument. The OP would like to know if an inexpensive radiator that matches his case and his fans will be functional. I think the answer is an easy yes. My only concern is if the 200mm fans truly lack performance, although the one I looked at from cooler master pushed over 100cfm, so I'm not sure if this is the case.