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Please help me to get my B-die to run better! *SOLVED*

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kevintuna

Registered
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
This is going to be a long read, but I want to post as much info as I can, maybe it can help diagnose the problem.

I built a new gaming computer, i7 1700, z590 tomahawk (updated to latest bios, this board is also daisy chain). I wanted to get 3600mhz c16, 32gb dual ranked ram... which most reviews say is the "go to" for gaming these days. So I bought crucial ballistix 16gbx2, I'll post the link to the kit.

https://www.amazon.ca/Crucial-Balli...ywords=3600mhz+c16+32gb&qid=1634745049&sr=8-4

If you read reviews on this kit, some people are getting dual ranked, and some people are getting single. I bought 3 different kits. All 3 kits were single ranked. All 3 kits ran at XMP no problem, and all 3 produced zero errors in memtest86. I returned all 3 kits due to being single ranked.

I then bought 2 different 16gb x2 kits of this g skills ripjaw kit, which is guaranteed to still be dual ranked, incoming link..
https://www.amazon.ca/G-SKILL-Ripja...ywords=3600mhz+c16+32gb&qid=1634745049&sr=8-3

Both kits I bought would fire up at xmp no problem, and were dual ranked. My issue was with memtest86. On the first kit, I had roughly 100 errors every time I ran it. On the second kit, I'd get to about 1000 errors every time I ran it, and the test would actually shut off due to too many errors. I returned both these kits. (My wife was really happy about all this).

I then thought I'd try an 8gbx4 kit of the crucial ballistix, here's the link,
https://www.amazon.ca/Crucial-Balli...=1&keywords=3600mhz+c16&qid=1634745336&sr=8-5

This kit would work, and pass memtest at XMP, but I'd have to slow the speed down to 3444mhz for it to run. Any higher would crash my computer.

I wasn't completely happy with the results ( seeing how it's going with this b die kit, maybe I should have been).. so I decided to buy a kit of b die. I couldn't, and still can't find any reasonably priced 16gb x 2 b die kit... I wish I could. The kit I ended up finding is a 4266mhz c19 kit, 8gb x 4. I'll post a link to the exact kits I got here now. I got 8gb x 4 for $280, which was actually cheaper than the 8gb x 4 crucial kit, so I thought it was a no brainer.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newegg.ca/amp/g-skill-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232497

So, with these sticks, I absolutely can't run at 1T. I don't think I've ever posted higher than 2999mhz with 4 dimms at 1T. Even with 2 DIMMS, I think 3200mhz is the highest I've ever posted. Pretty disappointed they can't run at 1T at all it seems. XMP sets these dimms to 2T.
With 2 DIMMS, on XMP, at like 3800mhz, they're passing memtest no problem. I can also tighten the timings a bit (nothing crazy) and they will pass. At 3600mhz, with 2 dimms I'm not getting better than c16 timings. I really want to be able to have dual ranked, so at this point I stopped playing with 2 dimms. I just ensured all 4 dimms would pass a memtest.

I really want dual channel, so I've more so focused on trying to get it to run with 4 dimms. Firstly, I can't get 1T to post any higher than 2999mhz. These ram are only working at all in 2T, which seems strange to me. Also, it seems like I need to keep my dram, IO and SA voltages in auto, or I'm having a much harder time posting while doing my ram testing. What's strange is in auto sometimes the bios is reading really high numbers, like the SA at 1.43 which you'll see in a picture here. But sometimes it's lower. Anyways I've now been keeping all voltages in auto, it seems to he posting better.

With 4 dimms, at 3600mhz 2T c14 14 14 28, I can post, and start up a game but it will crash within 1 minute of the game. It will also crash during a memtest.

3444mhz 2T C14 14 14 28 is stable, and passes a memtest. All my voltages seem to need to be in auto for this to occur though.

I'm going to post pictures of my bios, this set up is currently the best I've had the ram run, if you can see I can improve on something or if I'm doing something wrong, please let me know. The help is appreciated.


https://ibb.co/Zgd9zNC
https://ibb.co/J2wrGBC

https://ibb.co/88d8CQB
https://ibb.co/Gsj5WHX
https://ibb.co/GFNdk2V
https://ibb.co/FDB3LKd
https://ibb.co/NFWp8vS
https://ibb.co/YPSNTd3
https://ibb.co/bHRtMFV
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
1. Please host the images here. You can attach in "go advanced" and there is an attach image button.
2. You went deep down the well for what amounts to meager performance increases.
3. Dual channel = 2 sticks in the proper slots...4 sticks is still dual channel.

My advice... don't sweat the dual rank thing, snag a set of 2x16GB ddr4 3600 cl14, set xmp and enjoy. :)

As far as tweaking things... make sure bios is up to date (it is)... and I'll take a look when the images are posted locally. I'm mobile and clicking on the images is a bit of a PITA ATM. Not to mention, those images will expire after time. :thup:
 
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kevintuna

Registered
Joined
Mar 12, 2018
Here's a post with all the images uploaded to the forum

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

1. Please host the images here. You can attach in "go advanced" and there is an attach image button.
2. You went deep down the well for what amounts to meager performance increases.
3. Dual channel = 2 sticks in the proper slots...4 sticks is still dual channel.

My advice... don't sweat the dual rank thing, snag a set of 2x16GB ddr4 3600 cl14, set xmp and enjoy. :)

As far as tweaking things... make sure bios is up to date (it is)... and I'll take a look when the images are posted locally. I'm mobile and clicking on the images is a bit of a PITA ATM. Not to mention, those images will expire after time. :thup:



Images uploaded, wish I seen that before.

I know I've gone way to far with this, and it's caused me too much stress. I really wish I had found a 16gb x 2 b die kit.

I almost feel like I've come to far, and struggled to much to try to not see this through at this point lol.

I definitely wish I never went down this rabbit hole.
 

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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Thank you. As a side note, you can hit a button (F12, typically) to take images of your BIOS and save them to a USB stick. This way you don't have screencaps circa 1990s (I kid, I can read them). :p

I know you're balls deep, but it's a logical fallacy to believe you need to finish. We're here for you regardless... but don't let your own head twist you into making it happen.

After an initial glance, try setting it to Gear 2 and trying with everything on auto. SA voltage is way too high for the clocks/sticks/ranks/capacity/etc... 1.25V should be enough for four sticks/32GB (but leave it on auto for now). Memory overclocking isn't my thing (in part due to the time and effort for the negligible yields) so I'm buying time until our memory gurus swing on by. :)
 
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kevintuna

Registered
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Mar 12, 2018
Thank you. As a side note, you can hit a button (F12, typically) to take images of your BIOS and save them to a USB stick. This way you don't have screencaps circa 1990s (I kid, I can read them). :p

I know you're balls deep, but it's a logical fallacy to believe you need to finish. We're here for you regardless... but don't let your own head twist you into making it happen.

After an initial glance, try setting it to Gear 2 and trying with everything on auto. SA voltage is way too high for the clocks/sticks/ranks/capacity/etc... 1.25V should be enough for four sticks/32GB (but leave it on auto for now). Memory overclocking isn't my thing (in part due to the time and effort for the negligible yields) so I'm buying time until our memory gurus swing on by. :)


Thanks for the reply. I can't believe my voltage was that high. I'm reading that if running a speedy ram kit auto does it on purpose to help stabilize and then you need to manually tune. Glad you pointed it out. I've only been trying to run these for a few days so hopefully my IMC isn't damaged.

I've set my SA to 1.2, IO voltage to 1.15, CPU IO 2 VOLTAGE (RKL memory) to 1.15 ( I have no clue what this is or what it does, but it was high as well).

DRAM voltage to 1.43

And haven't touched my core voltage, in auto ire at 0.84.

Everything just booted and passed 1 memtest at 3444mhz c14 14 14 28, trfc 350, still gear 1, and 2T command
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Your IMC isn't damaged.

Feels like you just hit buttons and didn't listen to the advice, lol. Why did you touch other voltages? Leave those on Auto. For the most part, you only need to touch SA and IO. Leave everything else on auto. DRAM voltage seems high... but I"m not sure what you're working with exactly. Your last link in the first post goes to a tiny newegg image. What's your goal here? 3600 and CL14? Can you clarify what sticks you currently have?

Core voltage is irrelevant right now... we're overclocking the memory..........one thing at a time. :)
 
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kevintuna

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Mar 12, 2018
Your IMC isn't damaged.

Feels like you just hit buttons and didn't listen to the advice, lol. Why did you touch other voltages? Leave those on Auto. For the most part, you only need to touch SA and IO. Leave everything else on auto. DRAM voltage seems high... but I"m not sure what you're working with exactly. Your last link in the first post goes to a tiny newegg image. What's your goal here? 3600 and CL14? Can you clarify what sticks you currently have?

Core voltage is irrelevant right now... we're overclocking the memory..........one thing at a time. :)


I think 1.43 for b die is pretty good. I can try to lower it to 1.4. The only voltage I changed besides the SA AND IO is that RKL memory voltage.. it was shooting up to 1.4 as well which seems very high.. it seems stable at 1.15 as well. I really don't know what that one is though lol.


Yes my goal would be 3600 c14 with 4 dimms. I'm at 3444 now so I'm getting close and stable. I would like to be at 1T.. but I'm at 2T. It doesn't seem like 1T is possible but I may be doing something wrong. Here's the ram.


F4-4133C19D-16GTZR

DDR4 4266 (PC4 34100)Timing 19-19-19-39CAS Latency 19Voltage 1.40V

https://www.amazon.ca/G-SKILL-TridentZ-288-Pin-4266MHz-F4-4266C19D-16GTZR/dp/B01MZ8R8WQ
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Location
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Ok...so we're LOWERING timings and speed on a kit to get there... interesting. I'd honestly return that kit and grab 2x16GB of exactly whatchya want.... No shame in finally getting it... :p
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb...00 CL14-_-20-374-093-_-Product&quicklink=true
or
https://www.amazon.com/G-SKILL-Trid...W,B07Z45XB3G,B08176KLZT,B0143UM4TC,B082DGZJ9C

1.4V is fine, it won't hurt anything... just wondering if you need to be that high. Can't hurt.

From here...I'd start over.... everything on Auto, set 3600 and CL14-14-14-39 @ Gear 2 and see if it boots/runs.
 
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kevintuna

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Mar 12, 2018
Ok...so we're LOWERING timings and speed on a kit to get there... interesting. I'd honestly return that kit and grab 2x16GB of exactly whatchya want.... No shame in finally getting it... :p
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb...00 CL14-_-20-374-093-_-Product&quicklink=true
or
https://www.amazon.com/G-SKILL-Trid...W,B07Z45XB3G,B08176KLZT,B0143UM4TC,B082DGZJ9C

1.4V is fine, it won't hurt anything... just wondering if you need to be that high. Can't hurt.

From here...I'd start over.... everything on Auto, set 3600 and CL14-14-14-39 @ Gear 2 and see if it boots/runs.



1.4 is normal for RKL voltage?

Gear 2 is one thing I haven't tried yet, auto goes to Gear 1. I've read that Gear 2 will produce higher latency unless at extreme speeds, I presumed 3600 wasn't too extreme. I'll mess around with Gear 2 and see if it changes anything.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
1.4 is normal for RKL voltage?
Sorry, I'm not sure... but wouldn't worry about it for now (set it to auto). You can see what the stock voltages are by resetting the bios to optimized defaults and record the values.

It depends on the board and speed as to if it uses Gear 1 or 2. Some boards will go to gear 2 at 3600 by default (that doesn't mean they don't work at G1 there, but that's their behavior).

A good watch...
 

Johan45

Benching Team Leader Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Like E_D said at this point you need to start from scratch. RKL CPUs are a bit different with the "two speed" IMC. From my experience at 3600 Gear 1 the SA voltage is very high 1.4V+ and from testing I was able to lower the auto values but not by much without instability.
So starting from scratch with the BIOS reset to defaults, I would try the 4266 kit @ XMP and manually set gear2.
Regardless of what you have read not all CPUs are created equal and DDR4 3200 is only "officially" supported in Gear1 with the 11900K all other SKUs are 3200 Gear2 officially. I did have DDR4 3600 running on both samples I received (11900K, 11600K) but as I said earlier I noticed the SA voltage was very high (IMO) more like setting DDR4 4000+ on previous generations.
 
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kevintuna

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Mar 12, 2018
Like E_D said at this point you need to start from scratch. RKL CPUs are a bit different with the "two speed" IMC. From my experience at 3600 Gear 1 the SA voltage is very high 1.4V+ and from testing I was able to lower the auto values but not by much without instability.
So starting from scratch with the BIOS reset to defaults, I would try the 4266 kit @ XMP and manually set gear2.
Regardless of what you have read not all CPUs are created equal and DDR4 3200 is only "officially" supported in Gear1 with the 11900K all other SKUs are 3200 Gear2 officially. I did have DDR4 3600 running on both samples I received (11900K, 11600K) but as I said earlier I noticed the SA voltage was very high (IMO) more like setting DDR4 4000+ on previous generations.


Thanks for the post Johan.

I think my biggest misunderstanding was how memory workers on 11th gen intel. I feel like I did a lot of useless reading on prior gens, and also ryzens, and thought what worked for them would work for me.

I got way too stuck trying to run my memory 1T... now that I know it needs to stay in 2T, I'm making progress. I still kept it in gear 1 for now, because I think I getting some decent bench marks. If any of you much more knowledgeable people could check out my current bios settings, and see if I could improve on anything, it would be much appreciated. I haven't touched any sub timings, maybe I could make some improvements there?

Here is the best settings in 2T I've found that I can post in, and it's passed 8 memtest64's, let me know what you guys think.


(earth dog going to love these clean, crisp screen shots)
 

EarthDog

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The name of the game is being stable at the least amount of voltage needed to do so. It's all about trial and error, bud. :)

Glad you're making progress!
 
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kevintuna

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Mar 12, 2018
The name of the game is being stable at the least amount of voltage needed to do so. It's all about trial and error, bud. :)

Glad you're making progress!



you responded before i figured out how to do my nice pictures! Let me know what you guys think. I'd assume this could be considered to be stable with 8 memtest64 passes.

Are my voltages safe? Any improvements? thanks
 

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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Seems good to me, your values. I guess 3600 isn't the goal anymore since you aren't currently trying to get there(?). Are you going with 3444 and lowering the timings? That's fine... likely best at this point unless you're into tweaking more for no real gains? Your call. :thup:

As far as stability, play a game for a while since you passed some Memtest and confirm....
 
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kevintuna

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Mar 12, 2018
Seems good to me, your values. I guess 3600 isn't the goal anymore since you aren't currently trying to get there(?). Are you going with 3444 and lowering the timings? That's fine... likely best at this point unless you're into tweaking more for no real gains? Your call. :thup:

As far as stability, play a game for a while since you passed some Memtest and confirm....


I'm just not remotely stable at any timings at 3600 unless I go to gear 2, it seems like it's a worse option at this point. I think I need to just tweak 3466mhz the best I can.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Location
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unless I go to gear 2, it seems like it's a worse option at this point.
Well, you're welcome to watch that video I linked previously... after you should be able to make a more informed decision on that subject. :)

Inshort... it depends. But either way the performance difference is practically negligible with your settings. :thup:
 

Johan45

Benching Team Leader Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
For stability issues at 3600 you can try adding a bit of SA voltage. I asked about max values and never got a reply but auto on some boards is nearly 1.5V for Gear1
 
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kevintuna

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Mar 12, 2018
For stability issues at 3600 you can try adding a bit of SA voltage. I asked about max values and never got a reply but auto on some boards is nearly 1.5V for Gear1



I've never gone higher than 1.2 for SA voltage, when I left it on auto it went to like 1.43. I was scared I was going to set the house on fire and went to 1.2, which I read was the safest limit but it sounds like the rules changed for rocket lake?