PLEASE, YOU! COMMENT YOUR 2 CENTS!!! Im ordering a PSU on a TINY budget tomorrow

[Dalchi Frusche]

I still wouldn't get it, $59.99 or not for multiple reasons...

1. http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story5&reid=174 (not the same, just its bigger brother)
2. If Im only using 300W, that PSU will be LESS than its bronze rating at such low power draw.
3. Old spec PSU.. circa 2009.
4. That's also AFTER a MIR...not sure the OP can wait IF the MIR comes back in the first place.
5. See #1.

Never seen this review. Have seen some recent posts by people that commend the X4 line but warn away from the other series.

 

[EarthDog]

"Posts by people"... and there is where most go wrong. Just because it 'works' doesn't mean its a quality PSU and won't take out your system and start fires (worst case). There are many factors that make a quality PSU. A person saying it works doesn't know any of them and should not be used as a barometer for a quality PSU.

You need to read reviews by REPUTABLE reviewers (jonnyguru, [H], TPU, to name 3).

 

[NZKshatriya]

Ugh........I am so gonna be OVER the max word count for this essay.....and I still need to fit 8 more citations

Anyway, So.

which brands does E_D prefer
*oh dear, having firefox on tiny monitor, on taller shelf, while TV has word, is so weird....im looking up and to the right and typing lol*

 

[EarthDog]

See link in my signature for a compiled list...

Anything that JG approves or other reputable reviews are fine with me...

I do not go by 'brands' because most have some bad apples. The only one I can think of that doesn't have any duds are Seasonic (good to great), Corsair (MEH - CX line, to great - AXi), and EVGA (G2/P2 series - Great), CM surely had duds, so did Thermaltake, so did Antec. There were some studs in there too, but, its best not to say, grab any XXXXX PSU and you will be fine.

 

[Dalchi Frusche]

"Posts by people"... and there is where most go wrong. Just because it 'works' doesn't mean its a quality PSU and won't take out your system and start fires (worst case). There are many factors that make a quality PSU. A person saying it works doesn't know any of them and should not be used as a barometer for a quality PSU.

You need to read reviews by REPUTABLE reviewers (jonnyguru, [H], TPU, to name 3).

Hey you're just a person, but I'd trust your recommendations.

 

[EarthDog]

Mine are rooted in references to reputable reviewers... I have no idea what any other ****/tom/jane has to say.

 

[Dalchi Frusche]

Mine are rooted in references to reputable reviewers... I have no idea what any other ****/tom/jane has to say.

Haha, that's a very accurate description of most users out there.

 

[bob4933]

Clearly I can, as I did just that.


I'd far rather have people not buy the one (1) good Sentey unit I found in some quick review searching than buy one of the dozens of completely garbage units and blow their hardware to hell.
I'll happily do the same to a wide variety of other "manufacturers" too. The majority of them have made at least one decent PSU, even Logisys.
Does that make it a good brand? Hell no.
Does that make their less-than-top-of-their-complete-line units any less dangerous? Hell no, arguably worse really as people will read the good review and buy the garbage units thinking they're the same.
Moreover given that we're talking about someone who is trying to cheap out on PSUs and the one (1) good sentey unit is far from cheap I'd say that the context is another good reason for a blanket statement of "sentey is garbage". Certainly every sentey unit in his likely price range is garbage, and if he's going to throw $150 down on something you can do a hell of a lot better than sentey in that range now anyway.

Lastly, if you'd like to actually change my mind find me a current, decent value, good, properly reviewed Sentey unit. I will happily retract my earlier statement and declare you correct if you can do that. By current I mean actively sold by Newegg or Amazon. NOT a skeevy reseller with old stock selling via newegg/amazon, mind you. That's a whole different disaster.

Best I can find are some Sirtec-looking bronze units for vaguely reasonable prices on Amazon. No real reviews though, and if a company won't send units out for honest testing generally they are afraid of what it'll find.
Personally I have a strong distaste for Sirtec after a few of their units displayed ripple close to 10x the allowed maximum during mid-load after sustained high load testing. A few like every Sirtec I've tested.
Take that with as much salt as you'd like, but those Sirtec units had good parts, NCC caps, srsbsns MOSFETs, good layouts, good cooling, bad design. You know, the part Sirtec actually does.

You're missing the point. Sentey doesn't actually "make" anything. They rebadge/use odm equipment. Theres more than "1" quality "sentey". They also arently really intended for CONUS sale, I believe they are targeted towards asian and european markets (hence their pricing being "weird"). So for the person that may find one of the good ones on sale (they exist, Im not about to do a bunch of copy pasting for something I know youre gonna ignore anyway), its really not fair for you to group them in with the fire boxes.


As for reviews, their ODM is Super Flower. As Im sure you've done a lot of testing and research on your own, Im sure youre QUITE aware you can attest that Super Flower makes some decent power supplies. You also wont find many reviews of the Sentey brand because they arent marketed to the USA. (but EVERYONE here that has a question is from the USA right? )

2. If Im only using 300W, that PSU will be LESS than its bronze rating at such low power draw.

Thats an urban legend. If it drops below bronze spec, it was never bronze spec to begin with.

 

[Bobnova]

You're missing the point. Sentey doesn't actually "make" anything. They rebadge odm equipment. Theres more than "1" quality "sentey". They also arently really intended for CONUS sale, I believe they are targeted towards asian and european markets (hence their pricing being "weird"). So for the person that may find one of the good ones on sale (they exist, Im not about to do a bunch of copy pasting for something I know youre gonna ignore anyway), its really not fair for you to group them in with the fire boxes.


As for reviews, their ODM is Super Flower. As Im sure you've done a lot of testing and research on your own, Im sure youre QUITE aware you can attest that Super Flower makes some decent power supplies. You also wont find many reviews of the Sentey brand because they arent marketed to the USA. (but EVERYONE here that has a question is from the USA right? )

Their OEM (not ODM, as a note. It stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer. If we're being pedantic it should just be "their manufacturer" not their OEM, but OEM is standard usage so I'll let it slide) for that one(1) unit is Superflower.
For others it's Sirtec. For others it's GarbageInc.
Show me cheap, good, sentey review please. I won't ignore it.
I'll ignore garbage reviews certainly, but not real reviews.

Thats an urban legend. If it drops below bronze spec, it was never bronze spec to begin with.

That's flat out incorrect, the 80Plus testing (all grades, save Titanium) only test at 20%, 50%, 100%. Below 20% they don't test or care. Also, all Bronze PSUs fall below bronze at some point below 80%. Some modern Gold or Platinum PSUs can manage 85% efficiency at very low loads, but that's only high end units.
80Plus Titanium tests at 10%, on then they don't care about efficiency below that.

In short, please do your research. Even basic Wikipedia research will tell you more than you already know and help you avoid embarrassing errors like the above quoted statement.
Also every PSU on the market is more efficient at 50% load than 20%, just as a bonus FYI.

 

[Dalchi Frusche]

*pulls out the popcorn* I always love a good hardware debate

 

[Blaylock]

I don't see much of a debate there. lol

 

[EarthDog]

I can tell you that with the PSU selected, my statement was NOT correct for the wattage given (300W of 1200W). However, it is not an urban legend...: http://us.hardware.info/reviews/577...view-40-models-tested-efficiency-at-low-loads

You will note at the 50W level (I idle at 60W and work in 2D around 75W - which is a value from the wall FYI), that 16 of the 40 PSUs tested slipped below bronze and many were bronze certified. While I expect that number to shink in my usage model (~75W), its clear that there are very real situations where that happens. As Bobnova said, they test at specific points. What happens below those points, where your PC is a lot of the time, idle/2D, is not taken into account.

 

[Blaylock]

You will note at the 50W level (I idle at 60W and work in 2D around 75W - which is a value from the wall FYI), that 16 of the 40 PSUs tested slipped below bronze and many were bronze certified. While I expect that number to shink in my usage model (~75W), its clear that there are very real situations where that happens. As Bobnova said, they test at specific points. What happens below those points, where your PC is a lot of the time, idle/2D, is not taken into account.

Likely because at such a low load your looking at a very minor difference. i.e. at 75W even 60% efficiency vs. 80% your only looking at about a 15W difference. I have night lights that draw more juice than that.

 

[EarthDog]

In the end it doesn't matter that it slips below that bronze level, agreed.

I just cited some examples of what Bobnova was saying for readers to look at.

 

[bob4933]

Their OEM (not ODM, as a note. It stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer. If we're being pedantic it should just be "their manufacturer" not their OEM, but OEM is standard usage so I'll let it slide) for that one(1) unit is Superflower.
For others it's Sirtec. For others it's GarbageInc.
Show me cheap, good, sentey review please. I won't ignore it.
I'll ignore garbage reviews certainly, but not real reviews.




That's flat out incorrect, the 80Plus testing (all grades, save Titanium) only test at 20%, 50%, 100%. Below 20% they don't test or care. Also, all Bronze PSUs fall below bronze at some point below 80%. Some modern Gold or Platinum PSUs can manage 85% efficiency at very low loads, but that's only high end units.
80Plus Titanium tests at 10%, on then they don't care about efficiency below that.

In short, please do your research. Even basic Wikipedia research will tell you more than you already know and help you avoid embarrassing errors like the above quoted statement.
Also every PSU on the market is more efficient at 50% load than 20%, just as a bonus FYI.

Not sure why youre trying to have it out here.
edit : A1*) Superflower is both an OEM and an ODM. Until you know which one, we're both equally wrong as I cant find out. (Ill concede this one anyway, I dont really care, the point is the same)

A) of the models in production, SuperFlower makes 12/20. Sirtec makes 4, and rspenda makes 4. (1) implies only one, which is incorrect.

B) yet again, they aren't marketed towards the USA. Ergo, the only reviews that exist are on two units, both superflower ones. You've already seen them likely. The prices in the usa will be inflated as such its not meant to be here in the first place. What are you not understanding about this?

C) Your math is painful or youre just defending something blindly. Earthdog stated 300w. I was under the impression it was on about the 1000w (still pretty sure it was), but even at 1200w (as he claims), thats still north of your claim of 20% for testing. So, yet again. If it drops below bronze efficiency at 300w, it was never bronze spec to begin with or a defective unit. 80+ bronze loading at 20% (light load) is 82%. At mid load its 85%, at full load its 82%. If it drops below 82% between those margins (as defined by earthdog), it was never bronze spec to begin with. PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE IM WRONG. (Hint: Im not). (Feel free to show me an efficiency chart of a bronze spec unit thats below 82% please @ 25-30% loading).

D) In short, I have done my research this time. You're simply reading what you want to.

In light of this being completely erroneous, I'll just let you stew on that for a while. Send a PM if you'd like to continue this incorrect rant of yours.

I can tell you that with the PSU selected, my statement was NOT correct for the wattage given (300W of 1200W). However, it is not an urban legend...: http://us.hardware.info/reviews/577...view-40-models-tested-efficiency-at-low-loads

You will note at the 50W level (I idle at 60W and work in 2D around 75W - which is a value from the wall FYI), that 16 of the 40 PSUs tested slipped below bronze and many were bronze certified. While I expect that number to shink in my usage model (~75W), its clear that there are very real situations where that happens. As Bobnova said, they test at specific points. What happens below those points, where your PC is a lot of the time, idle/2D, is not taken into account.

Again, this isn't apples to apples. You said 300 of a 1200w psu. 300w is more than 20% of 1200w, where 50w of a 500w power supply is not. As bobnova stated so eloquently, bronze rating is for between 20-100%, not 0-10% loading. If you said... oh 150w, that would be a different story. But... considering we're discussing an intel system with an r9 390, everyone here knows its going to be north of 300w anyway...

for context :

It's hard to beat this deal. $199 PSU for 59.99 after rebate. Ultra 1000W X4

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8989532&CatId=5436

I still wouldn't get it, $59.99 or not for multiple reasons...
2. If Im only using 300W, that PSU will be LESS than its bronze rating at such low power draw.
.

300w on a 1000w bronze rated psu WILL be in bronze rated spec at that loading. Argue all you want, youre wrong.

 

[EarthDog]

I know I was wrong. I admitted as much in the post you quoted...

The bottom line is that it's not an urban legend. Its clear we all took that statement to reflect more than just my singular example which I readily admitted I was wrong already. To that end, I supported what was said with my link. Sure it's not apples to apples going against my incorrect statement (damn, I'm human... made a mistake!), but again, it seems we all took yours as being much more broad.

You are a good wordsmith so I suppose I thought an urban legend encompassed more than just my example you quoted. It felt you were denying the concept, not just my example, with your word choice.

 

[Bobnova]

Not sure why youre trying to have it out here.
edit : A1*) Superflower is both an OEM and an ODM. Until you know which one, we're both equally wrong as I cant find out. (Ill concede this one anyway, I dont really care, the point is the same)

A) of the models in production, SuperFlower makes 12/20. Sirtec makes 4, and rspenda makes 4. (1) implies only one, which is incorrect.

B) yet again, they aren't marketed towards the USA. Ergo, the only reviews that exist are on two units, both superflower ones. You've already seen them likely. The prices in the usa will be inflated as such its not meant to be here in the first place. What are you not understanding about this?

C) Your math is painful or youre just defending something blindly. Earthdog stated 300w. I was under the impression it was on about the 1000w (still pretty sure it was), but even at 1200w (as he claims), thats still north of your claim of 20% for testing. So, yet again. If it drops below bronze efficiency at 300w, it was never bronze spec to begin with or a defective unit. 80+ bronze loading at 20% (light load) is 82%. At mid load its 85%, at full load its 82%. If it drops below 82% between those margins (as defined by earthdog), it was never bronze spec to begin with. PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE IM WRONG. (Hint: Im not). (Feel free to show me an efficiency chart of a bronze spec unit thats below 82% please @ 25-30% loading).

D) In short, I have done my research this time. You're simply reading what you want to.

In light of this being completely erroneous, I'll just let you stew on that for a while. Send a PM if you'd like to continue this incorrect rant of yours.





Again, this isn't apples to apples. You said 300 of a 1200w psu. 300w is more than 20% of 1200w, where 50w of a 500w power supply is not. As bobnova stated so eloquently, bronze rating is for between 20-100%, not 0-10% loading. If you said... oh 150w, that would be a different story. But... considering we're discussing an intel system with an r9 390, everyone here knows its going to be north of 300w anyway...

for context :

300w on a 1000w bronze rated psu WILL be in bronze rated spec at that loading. Argue all you want, youre wrong.

You didn't give wattage context in your post. You gave a blanket statement. That blanket statement is incorrect.
With regards to a 300w load on a 1000w unit, it is correct. That is not what you said though. Even your quote of ED didn't say 1000w.

Are any of those models cheap? Let's remember we're talking cheap PSUs here. Moreover cheap PSUs in the USA. Europe has roughly nothing to do with it.
That's the context of the entire thread.

The reviews of the superflower units are as I'd expect superflower units to be, good.
There aren't reviews of the others. No reviews of the budget units that are the entire point of this thread.

My math is just fine (hint: It helps that I never gave math), your invisible context is the issue.
There are in fact plenty of those charts available at JG, but they're of units fraudulently rated at bronze so that's a bit of a wash.

On the efficiency thing, it's worth noting that while 300w on a 1200w is still within 80+ spec an 80+ 600w unit of that same spec will have better efficiency at 300w of load.

For your next research project I recommend the elusive apostrophe. It's important in contractions.

On the 1 unit vs 14 units you can't buy in the relevant country: Eh. If you can't buy them they aren't exactly in context now are they?


I'm also, as it's worth noting, surprised to find Sentey using a non-garbage manufacturer for any of their PSUs, they've stepped their game up.
I'll bet you at least half a donut that their cheap units are still garbage though.


Part of this, I have to admit, is that I enjoy arguing from time to time.
The other part is that it pissed me off when garbage PSUs are recommended. Like Sentey's cheap PSUs.