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Power Supply PSU for AMD Zen 4

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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
That depends.... what gpu are you planning to use in this machine? Regardless, chances are it will work for all...

Generally, graphics cards use a lot more power than a cpu so... you're missing some critical details here. ;)
 

Blaylock

"That Backfired" Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
Go Blue!
Another consideration, in addition to the GPU, will now be the motherboard. Several of the X670(E) (and maybe B650) boards support front 60W Type-C PD connectors. You will need an additional 6-pin PCIe cable to power this, leaving you only 1x 8-pin cable to power whatever GPU you do use.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
These top CPUs will not have much higher TDP than the last gen. Ryzen 5/7 is the same as last gen (65W for 5600X was a joke as they're passing 100W anyway). As others said, I would worry more about graphics cards or other devices as CPUs won't change much. Some new PSU series have new PCIe connectors for graphics cards, but there will be adapters from current PCIe cables, so I wouldn't worry about it.
I guess the generated heat can be a bigger problem than the wattage, but I haven't seen any proper tests yet.
I assume that the higher TDP is because of integrated graphics, so with the discrete graphics card, it can be lower. Again, without proper tests, it's hard to tell.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Another consideration, in addition to the GPU, will now be the motherboard. Several of the X670(E) (and maybe B650) boards support front 60W Type-C PD connectors. You will need an additional 6-pin PCIe cable to power this, leaving you only 1x 8-pin cable to power whatever GPU you do use.

Hm...
So it sounds like my old school PSU will not be enough for connector reasons, rather than power handling reasons?
 

Blaylock

"That Backfired" Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
Go Blue!
Hm...
So it sounds like my old school PSU will not be enough for connector reasons, rather than power handling reasons?
Are you asking a question? We don't know your other components so we couldn't answer even if we wanted to. But we can say if the PSU is not powerful enough, it is unlikely to be due to the CPU.
 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
I was using 600W 80+ Gold PSU with Ryzen 5900X and RTX3070 or RX6700XT. I was also using the same PSU with 11700K/RX6800XT. It has efficiency like 700-750W bronze units.
Motherboards will have PCIe connectors, if I'm right, the same as graphics cards. 750W PSUs like SuperNOVA have 4 of them, and you probably won't use more than 2. In the worst case, ~200W CPU, 300W GPU (somehow I doubt you will go for future 400W+ GPUs), 65W additional connectors, 50W motherboard/RAM, and other stuff = ~600W under load.
Again, you won't know for sure unless you test it, but if you won't go for a really high-wattage graphics card, then the 750W bronze unit is more than enough and won't cause problems.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Hm...
So it sounds like my old school PSU will not be enough for connector reasons, rather than power handling reasons?
You can also use a molex to 6-pin adapter and leave the two pcie connectors for whatever gpu you have/plan to buy. ;)

I'm running a 12900k (up to 241W) and a 3090ti (450w) with a 850w psu. ;)
 

Blaylock

"That Backfired" Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
Go Blue!
You can also use a molex to 6-pin adapter and leave the two pcie connectors for whatever gpu you have/plan to buy. ;)



I know this is a bit of a deviation from the topic so I'll apologize up front. I'm only commenting about this as I've had to do a lot of research into this when I was making my own psu cables for my mining rigs. There is a lot of misleading and even incorrect information online pertaining to this subject.

A Molex cable has a single 12V wire and the ATX std is to utilize 5A pins. So this equals a maximum of 60W of continuous power before potential overheating and failure. This puts it right at the limit of OK for using it as a 60W PD supply. Fortunately, many of the quality PSUs use 8.5A pins, increasing the connectors potential and expanding the safe zone. Note: wire gage and length are also contributing factors.

A SATA connector on the other hand uses 3x 1.5A pins on the 12V lines, for a combinded 54W. The 60W PD has the potential to cause overheating of the connector and melt. This is not something we have seen much as the 60W PD connectors are still fairly new, but I can guarantee we will be seeing these reports the more common they become and people come to realize what miners have known for a few years now.


TL;DR Never use SATA adaptors for anything that is not SATA specific.
 

mackerel

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
I assume that the higher TDP is because of integrated graphics, so with the discrete graphics card, it can be lower.
Since the power limit is for the socket, if one part uses less, other parts can use more and still bounce off the limiter. What's the stock PPT ratio again? I think it is 35% over TDP, so at stock these could pull up to 230W. That 5.7 GHz needs it power from somewhere!
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
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Location
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So, I thought about this power connector a bit more............... are you going to use that ability in the first place? At worst (if you don't want to use adapters) you can 'get by' with that 750W unit until you need it then get a new PSU/use an adapter or retire that new/old one you're asking about.

I struggled to think of a use for this power that makes it part of my personal decision tree. Currently, you can fast charge a phone/tablet with the available 27W. So what though... do I charge my laptop through my PC? Power my monitor through my PC? Just really having trouble figuring out a use for this (I'm all ears) to the point where I'd buy a new PSU versus simply buying an adapter should the need arise down the road.

Anyway, list your GPU for Pete's sake so we can give you a definitive answer. :)
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
I have not begun research on GPUs. I am upgrading a 2016 machine. I might use the GPU inside it....since I keep putting off gaming...., it's an XFX Double D FX-787A-CDBC Radeon HD 7870. I've been putting off Gaming since Sega Genesis.... I think I may have missed out on some games over the years... :shock:

I probably need advice on RAM, which brand?
I am guessing you'd advise to stick with Ryzen 5 and not go for higher CPUs, can any be overclocked you think?


You know I do have a Corsair RM-850 PSU in now, but I am guessing all these years using it would make it inferior to unboxed EVGA SuperNova 750 B2 Bronze EVSB750.
How about you tell me a good 2022 GPU that is on the limit of what EVGA SuperNova 750 B2 Bronze EVSB750 can push.


Oh and a computer case that has a superfast USB connector in upper front to connect the 12 inch Portable SSD cable to since those 12 inch cable do transfer many times faster than longer cheaper ones, and having those connectors in the back is a PITA to reach with a 12" cable.

I have a Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366 RT heatsink, will that work on 2022 AMD?
 

stompah

Deep Pain Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2001
$550 for the CPU, $200ish for a new MB, $100ish for some RAM, $700+ for a GPU that *may* push you past what your 750w PSU can handle. What's another $150 for peace of mind?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I have not begun research on GPUs. I am upgrading a 2016 machine. I might use the GPU inside it....since I keep putting off gaming...., it's an XFX Double D FX-787A-CDBC Radeon HD 7870. I've been putting off Gaming since Sega Genesis.... I think I may have missed out on some games over the years...
That GPU may/may not work. If you decide to use it, update it's BIOS first just in case it isn't compatible with UEFI. That said, if that's how you game, I don't imagine you to need a high res high Hz capable card and a mid-range or budget card would suffice. To that end, your 750W is, without a doubt, plenty.
I probably need advice on RAM, which brand?
For the most part, brand is a preference thing, really. Stick with the QVL list for the board you chose and any on the list should work. I prefer GSkill, like ADATA and Corsair. This is a new platform so some brands may have growing pains with certain boards (GSkill and Giga for Z690, for example).
I am guessing you'd advise to stick with Ryzen 5 and not go for higher CPUs, can any be overclocked you think?
I always say get the best you can/want to afford. While a Ryzen 5 should be enough for now and a marked improvement over what you have, 6c/12t is already getting long in the tooth to me...however, it depends on how you use your PC. You hang onto your PC for quite a while, so, I'd go Ryzen 7 7700X (8c/16t). If you're still worried about the PSU (you aren't listening/shouldn't be, lol) these are both '105W' (+35%) CPUs.

As far as overclocking, there's not much on AMD (or Intel) at all. It's tweaking PBO settings to get a slightly higher boost and/or more clocks on all core...again depends on how you use your PC as to which overclock is best for you. Either way, power doesn't increase too much so that shouldn't be a significant concern.

You know I do have a Corsair RM-850 PSU in now, but I am guessing all these years using it would make it inferior to unboxed EVGA SuperNova 750 B2 Bronze EVSB750.
How about you tell me a good 2022 GPU that is on the limit of what EVGA SuperNova 750 B2 Bronze EVSB750 can push.
Ehh... I wouldn't bet on it. RM's, IIRC were higher quality than the Bronze PSUs.

As far as limits go, this thread has examples already. I told you I can run a 12900K and 3090 Ti on 750W PSU... I wouldn't recommend that, so a 3080Ti or lesser would be ideal. If you want an AMD GPU, 6800XT or lower would be fine.

Oh and a computer case that has a superfast USB connector in upper front to connect the 12 inch Portable SSD cable to since those 12 inch cable do transfer many times faster than longer cheaper ones, and having those connectors in the back is a PITA to reach with a 12" cable.
I love my Hyte 60. It has a USB 3.2 Gen 2 (10 Gbps) port up front. I plug my portable drive in the back 20 Gbps port and it sits on top of the chassis.

Offhand I can't think of any cases with 3.2 Gen2x2 (20 Gbps) ports, but they exist (not in great numbers). That said, your motherboard needs to have the proper front panel port (3.2 Gen 2x2) as well, so make sure you find one that has it (likely on mid-range+ boards). Specs aren't out (neither are the boards/products stacks), so, I can't answer that... you'll have to research that bit on your own when the time comes (see specs page on mobo website).

I have a Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme 1366 RT heatsink, will that work on 2022 AMD?
Offhand, no idea... but if it fits AM4, it should fit AM5. Look at the specs page to see and/or contact Thermalright for confirmation. That said, the heatsink should handle the 105W processors fine, not so sure about the 170W+ ones though. For the latter, you may want to look into a 2x140 or 3x120mm AIO for best results.

$550 for the CPU, $200ish for a new MB, $100ish for some RAM, $750+ for a GPU that *may* push you past what your 750w PSU can handle. What's another $150 for peace of mind?
Doesn't he have peace of mind already? Literally, the only thing a quality and properly functioning 750W PSU won't cover are flagship/400W+ GPUs (generally over $700 - 4080 may change that...). If he's into 2560x1440/144 or 4k gaming, that's his market and buy a new PSU. Otherwise, any midrange card will be plenty for 1080p 144+ or 2560x1440 60+ easily. As mentioned previously (and in Nebs thread), I ran a 3090Ti and 12900K on a 750W PSU without issue...that's not ideal, but it worked just fine for a month or two before I upgraded to a more efficient model (gold to Titanium, 850W). Notice I 'only' have an 850W for the best O D best O D best parts?

Also, these mobos are going to be pricey. I doubt he'll find a board with what he needs for $200 (cheap boards won't have 20 Gbps front panel Type-C header). It's likely going to be $300+. DDR5 for $100? Maybe one stick! AMD's 'max' in spec is DDR5 5600... they've already come out and said DDR5-6000 is the sweet spot. But to go 2x16GB (I wouldn't go 2x8GB...) at 5600 or 6000 (with a reasonably low CL rating) is a lot more than $100. Starts at $230 (5600) and $280 for DDR5 6000. I get the logic, expensive stuff, good PSU, but he's got a capable one already that won't take out his system if it craps the bed. Me... I'd ride either of the PSUs he mentioned and use that money to get better hardware.
 
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OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Thank you for thorough answers. I usually buy Asus, which mobo brands are now your personal picks in 2022?

Reading your posts, I am surprised that you seem to be saying you would opt for me to transfer my Corsair RM-850 that's been running most of the day for ten years vs. a brand new unboxed EVGA SuperNova 750 B2 Bronze EVSB750,, correct?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Thank you for thorough answers. I usually buy Asus, which mobo brands are now your personal picks in 2022?
Tough to say for this gen... the motherboards aren't out yet. All four major board partners generally produce quality products (everyone has duds and studs). It's a new platform so which one will have the least growing pains, no idea. Gigabyte was the black sheep for Z690 (memory woes out of the gate, notably better/not a worry now), but maybe they nail it with AM5. Kept shaking the Magic 8-ball and got these answers - "Answer unclear, ask later", "Can't say now", and "Consult me later". :bday:

I am surprised that you seem to be saying you would opt for me to transfer my Corsair RM-850 that's been running most of the day for ten years vs. a brand new unboxed EVGA SuperNova 750 B2 Bronze EVSB750,, correct?
Pretty sure I just addressed the quality aspect of that and didn't list one over the other. The 750W bronze is a budget PSU, new or w/e while the RM is higher quality out of the box (I wouldn't expect it to turn into a low-quality unit with use/time). I'd run either one...neither will kill your system if they die so it doesn't really matter.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Well don't forget to tell me later.
Until then, was Asus still top tier for last gen? Who else was?

Also, woe, look wut I found on the internets

RM850: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=369
Supernova: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=393

The Corsair uses lower grade capacitors, but has slightly better ripple suppression vs the Supernova. Fan made a bit of noise during testing.
The Supernova has higher quality capacitors and the fan doesn't make a noise like the Corsair did for Jeremy. Ripple suppression on the 12v rail was 50mV which is good just not as good as we've seen in the past.

I vote for the Supernova. the point difference is a mere 0.2. The Corsair got 9.2 and the Supernova got 9. Should have gotten more but points IMO, but points were deducted for being semi-modular. I have 2 Supernova PSU's in the house and they are both of very high quality. I won't ever buy another brand for PSU's again.

jonnyguru reviewed EVGA Supernova B2 750W and said
80 Plus Bronze certified, but actually did Silver


Hey whatever happened to that guy, he used to post here, was some kind of a PSU... guru? What happened to him?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
He retired from reviewing psus a couple of years back. :(

Top tier last gen... Bang for your buck was definitely Gigabyte... Asus, I like the ROG boards or the high end prime verison (a?). Msi from the carbon up I'm also a fan of. Asrock I like their itx boards and the pg velocita on up.

Also, woe, look wut I found on the internets
:rofl: :thup:
 

MisterEd

Member
Joined
May 10, 2004
Location
Alabama
I was thinking about pre-ordering and building a Zen 4 computer but the motherboard prices are making me rethink that. I have to decide whether to settle on one of the X670 motherboards for around $350 or wait a few months for the B650 or B650E boards to be released. I also have to decide on whether to borrow the Corsair RM750X P/S from my current desktop. This computer also has an RTX 3060Ti GPU that I can also use.

AM5 Motherboard prices:
* X670E: $350 – $500
* X670: $270– $350
* B650E: $230 – $330
* B650: $130 – $230

Where to buy AM5 motherboards, price, pre-orders, info