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Power Supply PSU for AMD Zen 4

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OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
September 1, 2022 [a few days ago] USB Promoter Group Announced USB4 Version 2.0 @ 80 Gbps. Eighty.

So first of all, most articles that published this news do not even mention a single sentence or speculation on when 80Gbps will actually be physically available...
The ones that do speculate coupla years.


So what if the next gen motherboards available next [not this] X-mas have 80 Gbps USB?
I mean, I'd be kicking myself for pulling the trigger this year.
I spend a lot of time customizing a chipset drive image and 80 Gbps USB motherboard is a major jump that will save a lot of time transferring files.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I mean, I'd be kicking myself for pulling the trigger this year.
There's always something better around the corner. If we all got frozen by that, we'd never be buying but waiting for the next thing... ;)

With AMD, they said this platform was good through 2025. So I'd imagine, as we've seen historically, board partners refresh their lineups at some point and perhaps this is added. Also, there will be add in cards if you really need it ASAP and new boards don't support it.
 

Blaylock

"That Backfired" Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
Go Blue!
Around 2025 there will likely be rumors of PCIe 6.0. Unfortunately it's just the nature of the beast. They always need to come up with something better to sell you. It's quite literally the only way they stay in business.
 

TerranBrackiatt

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Location
Austin, TX
there actually are a few zen4 motherboards sporting USB4: ie: Asus is advertising its Crosshair x670E Extreme board with it. (i'm expecting cost of $800-$1200 US based on Zen 3 and intel 12th gen prices for asus extreme boards)
EDIT: if i understand the preliminary info correctly, the difference between the x670 and the x670e , is that the E lets you use PCIE5.0 GPU's and pcie5.0 NVMe's at the same time, while the non E makes you choose between them. i am assuming that the other one (that you didn't choose for pcie5.0) will be downgraded to pcie4.0, but i didn't look too hard, so that assumption could be way wrong.

As for PSU's: Asus has made available the thor platinum 2 line, 1000w, 1200w, and 1600w versions, that offer either the 12pin Pcie 5.0 GPU power cable (1000w PSU) or the 16 pin version (on the 1200w and 1600w PSU's).

i list those only as examples that some of the new tech is already coming out. those PSU's are already available on Newegg, and because the RTX 4k series GPU is rumored to use the the new GPU cables. too bad cablemods doesn't really offer the 600w 16pin cables yet. (they offer the 450w 12pin cables though)

and don't fret about pulling the trigger early. i know it's always in the back of my mind, too. I bought a AM4 system last year (when i wanted to wait for AM5) because Nevermore was no longer reliable for long gaming sessions. web-surfing? could go on forever, but gaming somehow spiked the PSU, shutting it off instantly. Maybe the case's custom power switch was too old, or maybe some regulator went bad on the motherboard after 8 years. i got tired of troubleshooting and getting nowhere, if i needed to spend money to troubleshoot, might as well pull the trigger on a new PC... and it totally sux to crash in a MMO and not be able to get back in because of prime-time queues...
 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
I just tested Lian-Li SP850 - 850W SFX PSU, and it comes with a 12-pin PCIe 5.0 cable. The premiere of this PSU is today, and if I'm right, it's their first PSU with a PCIe 5.0 cable, and they don't have a 16-pin option (yet). The same cables will be widely available separately, so there is no worry about older PSU compatibility. As long as the PSU is strong enough and has good quality cables, then shouldn't be any problem with high-wattage graphics cards.

LianLiSP850_pht28.jpg
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
I was not aware, when starting this thread, the extent to which the video card industry has taken advantage of us all.
I am told that prices of video cards are artificially astronomical due to a combination of the mining craze and industry greed...

They say that video card prices are projected to crash, prices are already going down.


Every video card thread on hot deal forums is filled with people who have figured this out, advising others to HOLD and not buy yet.
Whatever is on the market now will lose its value significantly, and whatever is coming is (much) better than what is out today.


Therefore no new build until the video card market sorts itself out?



I am surprised no one mentioned the video card hard truth here.

:escape:
 
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Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Graphics cards already went down by 10-50% and won't be much cheaper. Mining is already dead and used cards flodded all online auctions. Nvidia also manufactured too many GPUs so they try to sell as many RTX3000 as they can and the new generation is slightly delayed + will be overpriced because people will pay anyway.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I can't think of a better time to buy 3000 series. ;)

...maybe prices will continue to drop once 4000 series comes out... but we're seeing MSRP and even lower already. The 'temult' is pretty much over and, for the most part it's business as usual (prices on used will drop over time).
 
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OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
MNvidia also manufactured too many GPUs so they try to sell as many RTX3000 as they can...

So they overpriced 4000 series because they want to sell surplus stock of 3000 cards they're sitting on? How long will that take..

I get the sense that people are advising against buying mining cards? Is it because mining use affects their performance?
 

Blaylock

"That Backfired" Senior Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Location
Go Blue!
Most Reddit posts that I've read seem to detout people from buying mining cars or of spite. Buying mining cards can be a gamble. Yes they are generally under volted and the core is under clocked, but the memory is overclocked. Temps were only an issue with the GDDR6 cards if I recall correctly. But fans were almost always 75%+ 24/7, so if there was a failure it would likely be a fan dying. Of course, just like gamers, there are plenty of irresponsible people who never performed routine maintenance, and were kept disgustingly filthy.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
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Location
Buckeyes!
So they overpriced 4000 series because they want to sell surplus stock of 3000 cards they're sitting on?
They didn't overprice the 4000 series (for that reason). I mean, they are overpriced, but not because they want to sell 3000 series cards... sadly.. it's the market and what many will pay. There's also enough stock around they need to burm with new hotness (quite literally, lol) releasing soon. ;)
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
I can't think of a better time to buy 3000 series. ;)

I thought about what you are saying here but the more I think about it, the more I rely on my own intelligence to conclude that the price drops are nowhere near over.

So I am opting to respectfully disagree with you, and step back to see who is actually right, you or the many price-conscious posters on hot deal forums who lay out the case that massive price drops still await us.

They have no sympathy for the graphic card manufacturers.

They say that manufacturers will be forced to come down to much more realistic price points than they are today.


Time ahead will tell.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
I see it like ~2 year IT hardware is already old, and I wouldn't buy it as something new, but this is me. Another way of thinking is upgrading something older when you see a clear advantage of something, not the latest but still significantly better. Then I'm not sure if a 2nd hand purchase isn't a better option (but from a confirmed source, not a random ebay auction). Many used graphics cards still should have 1-2 years of warranty.
Another thing is why you need it. Graphics cards, if not for mining, then are almost only for gaming. Now think if most games that you play aren't also on XBOX/PS5 (more XBOX as it's significantly cheaper). XBOX X costs less than a pretty average graphics card from RTX3000 gen, and you still need other components to make it work. Also, a life cycle of a gaming console is usually longer.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I thought about what you are saying here but the more I think about it, the more I rely on my own intelligence to conclude that the price drops are nowhere near over.

So I am opting to respectfully disagree with you, and step back to see who is actually right, you or the many price-conscious posters on hot deal forums who lay out the case that massive price drops still await us.

They have no sympathy for the graphic card manufacturers.

They say that manufacturers will be forced to come down to much more realistic price points than they are today.


Time ahead will tell.
I'm sure prices will continue to get better for 3000 series... that's what happens when new cards release, the previous generation gets cheaper (2000 series is even cheaper now too... because of correction or time???). It's reported all over about the 3000 series surplus stock and why prices dropped (mining bust with ETH, new cards coming out, surplus, new cards supposed to be awesome). Is it going to be as precipitous as a drop as we've seen in the market over the last couple of months? I don't imagine it will be close to that (remember the 'tumult' that you're now learning about/speaking of is, for all intents and purposes, past).

But I don't believe we're going to see another significant market correction on prices for used 3000 or new 4000 series until later in its life cycle (as per usual with new)... look at the CPU and motherboard market, prices are out of line and continue to go up there as well... is that supposed to correct too (serious question)? We'll see 3000 series go down as time goes on, but that's the normal life cycle of used cards too. As for 4000 series, surely we'll see a natural adjustment mid-life-cycle, probably when "Super" or "ti" cards get released, but here again, this is 'normal'. In short, you're right, prices will go down, but I liken it to the 'there's always something new around the corner' conundrum. If this was 2 months ago, I would have said to wait. But now that the 4000 series are out (in a couple of weeks), I believe we'll see more normal marketing forces and subtle decreases as opposed to a slashing of prices.

Curious.... what is other people's reasoning/"case" the price will drop significantly/market correction? When is that supposed to happen (articles said in September we'd see another drop - we did - but we're in October now)? Feels like we're missing some good info here. This isn't a pissing contest, so share the information you have that formed your opinion. :)
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
I like your post and hope we find answers to questions you posted together.


They say there is a massive amount of unsold cards, because of unrealistic pricing.
They say there is an even bigger, enormous amount of used cards that will continue to hit the market.
They say that the about to be released new gen is so superior... that the performance gap in itself will contribute to fire sales of old.

They say that all video card prices are out of whack with reality, meaning reality of people's ability to continue to shell out such high $ amounts, and do so in volume.


On the other hand, to play devil's advocate, maybe the video card manufacturers will do what diamond manufacturers did, to keep engagement ring prices artificially high?


The whole thing sucks to high heaven enough for me to step away and wait for it all to sort itself out, no purchases any time soon for me.


Can you please post what it is exactly that is bad about owning a used mining card?
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Can you please post what it is exactly that is bad about owning a used mining card?

Blaylock already replied to that in post #30. You don't know in what environment the card was running and how long. As long as the GPU should be fine as it's typically undervolted for the best results, then memory runs at much higher frequency and with long full load memory chips may be degraded or simply damaged. Memory chips are the most common RMA reason in new cards. This or design flaws like some Gigabyte cards had with power design and connectors.
As long as you are sure that the card is in a good condition and the best is under warranty, then there is no problem. However, buying a card after mining without warranty is asking for trouble.

One more option are Intel graphics cards that should cost less and the upcoming GPUs look pretty good (at least on Intel slides). They should be released soon, but so far lower Intel GPUs had a lot of problems with drivers (most already solved).
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Blaylock already replied to that in post #30.
This + what he said.

Regardless of undervolting, they are run hard 24/7/365 which is not a typical use scenario for video cards. There's additional risk of premature failure (GPU or Mem - don't ask how much more, please...).

They say there is a massive amount of unsold cards, because of unrealistic pricing.
Which has dropped to MSRP or below the last few weeks already....massive advertised price drops have already occurred.
They say there is an even bigger, enormous amount of used cards that will continue to hit the market.
Used cards have flooded the market from mining and those trying to get the most $ for their old cards for a few weeks already....not sure I see another huge surplus...
They say that the about to be released new gen is so superior... that the performance gap in itself will contribute to fire sales of old.
This is normal. There's a big uptick in performance, but, that may be with using DLSS etc... so time will tell exactly how fast they are. That said, with pricing the way it is at launch, not sure if I buy into this one either. Feels like burning both ends of the candle.. are these so fast that price doesn't matter (no)?
They say that all video card prices are out of whack with reality, meaning reality of people's ability to continue to shell out such high $ amounts, and do so in volume.
Prices are sky high for these things... without a doubt. I believe there will be an adjustment, but that's because the Super/Ti cards (new) will be released, not because people will stop buying them because they are too expensive.
The whole thing sucks to high heaven enough for me to step away and wait for it all to sort itself out, no purchases any time soon for me.
If you're ready to buy, buy (once 4000 series and AMD GPUs are released). After the initial 30 days after, I wouldn't bet on a significant price cut until much later in the life cycle....but again, that's also normal.
 
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OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
In numbers, for the record, October 7th, 2022:
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 12GB GDDR6X PCI Express 4.0 Graphics Card Titanium and Black 900-1G133-2518-000 - $899.99


They are saying this card was $1,200 a couple of weeks ago, so down $300 and they're saying it is STILL a terrible deal on the eve of 4080 release.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Every graphics card is a terrible deal considering what you do with that and how much it improves overall gaming experience. I guess you just pick the "lesser evil". Tomorrow should be the premiere of RTX4000 so soon you will see retail prices for new cards. Then RTX3000 may drop some more and you can compare if it's worth to get a new gen or not.
If I wasn't testing and reviewing, then RTX3060 would be good enough for me. The market is divided into people who will spend a lot of money, even though it will give them barely better experience in games and those who said they won't pay and switched a gaming PC into new gen consoles.
I see that new AMD CPUs are not really selling, new Intel CPUs are expected to sell worse than the last gen, and a lot of people said enough to Nvidia, or picked RTX3000 on sale some weeks ago. All that because of ridiculous prices and barely better experience coming from upgrades.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
In numbers, for the record, October 7th, 2022:
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 12GB GDDR6X PCI Express 4.0 Graphics Card Titanium and Black 900-1G133-2518-000 - $899.99


They are saying this card was $1,200 a couple of weeks ago, so down $300 and they're saying it is STILL a terrible deal on the eve of 4080 release.
Just an FYI.... MSRP was $1199 on that card.... so it's below MSRP/SEP by quite a bit at this point. You could find many 3080Ti SKUs for MSRP or below 3 weeks ago too (I mentioned this in my previous post as well).

Here's an article from 5 weeks ago (9/4, September 4th), stating you can get 3080 Ti's for $800... ;)
And we’ve seen the lowest price yet for the RTX 3080 Ti, which can now be had for $800 from Newegg (another EVGA product), and it’s even cheaper at Best Buy where there’s a 3080 Ti from MSI sitting at $740(opens in new tab).