Proposal for a new server for my employer. Need advice.

[dwschoon]

I work for a small law office with about 30 people including staff and attorneys. Their domain server is currently a p3 1000 dual board, but only running a single processor. They use an outside computer consultant, who has provided this bid for a new server.

Intel SE7501HG2 Motherboard
1x Intel Xeon 2.4ghz processor 533 fsb 1mb cache
2gb pc2100 ECC DDR (4x512)
2 Seagate 36gb 10krpm Ultra320 8mb cache scsi Hard drives
DVDRW
Floppy
Supermicro server case
2HD coolers
MS keyboard and mouse

The quoted price for this computer is $2,699.00+tax. I have researched this hardware and I think it is too high for what they are getting. The motherboard looks to be an old model as well as the cpu, and they are only getting 1 cpu at this price. The cpu looks to be a great overclocker according to the xeon sticky, but this computer will never be overclocked. It is very important that it run fast and stable at the stock speed. I am putting together a proposal to give my boss. Im wanting the firm to buy the parts and I will build the server. Then they can have the computer guy come in with all the software. This is what I have come up with. These are Newegg links. I havent looked anywhere else yet.

Intel SE7520AF2 Motherboard $675
2x Intel Xeon EM64T 3.0 800FSB 2mb cache $717
2GB(4x512mb) Crucial DDR2 400 ECC Registered Ram $303.56
2x Seagate Cheetah 36gb 10k rpm Ultra320 8mb cache SCSI HDs $398

I havent looked for a case/ps yet, and I still have to add cost of a cdrom, floppy, keyboard, and mouse. My total right now is only $2100 though and I think this system is much more robust. What do you all think? I need to know If these parts are a good decision, as well as some suggestions for a case and ps. The domain server will be running Windows Server 2003, and they are considering running an outlook server on it as well. It also will house our central data network drive and be the Norton antivirus server.

 

[9mmCensor]

Is it going to be a 1U case?

 

[dwschoon]

Is it going to be a 1U case?

To be honest, I dont know what you mean. If you mean is this the only system in the case, then yes. We have no need for multiple rack mount systems.

 

[DaveB]

You may want to reconsider this. Are you planning to provide free 24/7 support? Do you have a fool-proof backup and recovery strategy?

Maybe Dell or HP is the way to go.

 

[9mmCensor]

1U is the size of the case. It is compact to maximize the number of systems on the rack.

 

[dwschoon]

Well, Right now my I am the runner for the law office. They are sending me to school to be ms certified to run all the computer systems in the office. Then they will pay me to be their tech guy rather than use an outside consultant. I already fix all the work stations when something goes wrong, and I have built regular computers for them in the past. I talked with my boss, and he said that if they liked my proposal, they would let me build the computer, then have the outside consultant bring in all the software and maintain it till im certified.

 

[tkotitan]

As DaveB alluded to, it really depends on how mission-critical this server is. Does it need to be up 24/7/365, or would you have time to upgrade and diagnose malfunctions on nights/weekends? Would a system outage during work hours cost the company thousands of dollars per minute, or just cause an inconveneince? These are the questions you need to answer before drumming up specs.

2 processors is better than 1 because the system can handle more work without breaking a sweat. If the system is only doing 1 task that takes up 1 full CPU, the OS balances things and makes each CPU work only 50%, reducing power consumption without slowing down the system.

If the data on the system is important, it should be safegaurded by a Raid-1 or Raid-5 array of drives, that way if one drive fails, all the data is still intact. If the data on it doesn't matter that much, you probably don't need 2 hard drives to begin with. If the system is mission critical, you'll want hot swappable drives to make changeouts while the system is still running.

As for opinions on parts, I don't know much about Intel boards. I know Tyan has a reputation for making very stable server boards that are boring to an overclocker. As for SCSI drives, IMO, you are better off getting some good SATA drives and putting them in a raid, you get better price/performance and almost equivalent warranty. As always, the more RAM in a system, the better it runs. Don't forget to run an OS with support for 64 bit apps if you get CPUs with EM64T.

 

[dwschoon]

The server is not "mission critical" as you put it. In fact, we had a power outage last night at 6pm, so the attorney shut it down. We are still waiting on someone to come in and unlock the vault so we can turn it back on. The reason I included SCSI drives is because our current server has the ultra160 scsi drives and scsi is what the consultant quoted. The plan is to run them in RAID with the onboard controller. The way our system is setup right now is this. We have 2 34gb SCSI Ultra 160 hard drives in a RAID 1 array. On the drive there are several different shared resources including an O drive with client info(pleadings/correspondence/etc)and an accounting drive, which I dont have access to, so I dont know the specs. I am not opposed to SATA drives, but what would the advantage be for our situation. Like I said, we only have about 30 people in the entire company including attorneys, the accountant, and staff.

I also have a question about the 64 bit CPU. Is there any problem running windows server 2003 on this system?

 

[dwschoon]

Also, would this case work?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811152011

 

[Xtreme Barton]

any chance for AMD here ?

 

[dwschoon]

I personally have no problems with AMD, but the entire firm is Intel based(mostly dells) and the attorneys seem reluctant to change.

 

[Xtreme Barton]

hmmmm... probably hard to change an attorneys mind .. lol

 

[dwschoon]

I just read that the board requires some kind of key to activate the raid on it. what is this for and how much do they cost?

 

[Cheator]

Wait a minute... is this server serving alot of data or what? I mean if it is just doing 1 website, then whydo a big *** upgrade? Throw another cpu in the current one and bam its better than perfect. My server runs 2x AMD Athlon XP 1600+ with only IDE. And i have a great response time and everything. I also serve about 50-60 gig a month.

 

[dwschoon]

Our office is moving and they want to start over with a brand new server. It will be our domain with our client data stored on it. All computers in the office will be accessing this data. It will be a norton antivirus server, as well as an outlook server. They also want us to be able to check our email on the web. It will also be the accounting server.

 

[dwschoon]

This board by supermicro looks to be similar to the intel board, but no stupid raid key is required. Are they reputable?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813182042

 

[Cheator]

I don't know about the board, but if that is the case, I would recomend at least a 2 CPU system. While I don't like intel, surely there is a good board out there. I like Tyan, but not sure if they make intel boards.

 

[DaveB]

The server is not "mission critical" as you put it.

Our office is moving and they want to start over with a brand new server. It will be our domain with our client data stored on it. All computers in the office will be accessing this data. It will be a norton antivirus server, as well as an outlook server. They also want us to be able to check our email on the web. It will also be the accounting server.

You're saying these are not "mission critical" for a law office? If not, what is? If your home-built server goes down and the client data and accounting information can't be accessed, how will any work get done, emails be sent/received, clients get billed, or court papers be filed? What if the motherboard fries and it takes you 3 days to find a new one and get it shipped to you? While I'm sure you are capable of building a top notch server, lots of failures are out of your control but you will be blamed. I'm not trying to argue with you or question your capabilities, but you are taking a risk here IMO.

 

[David]

As has been mentioned, the hardware is only one issue. Fixing it is another.

If you *must* build it yourself I would opt for a pair of lower-mid range Xeons (can be upgraded later if needed and probably way overkill anyway) around 1.6 to 2.0GHz. 2GB RAM, decent solid board, SCSI is a bonus not just for speed but for error checking (AFAIK SCSI uses CRC error checking when it reads and writes data).

Plan to include a tape drive or DVD burner and back up data religiously. Store one set of data offsite (have the boss keep it at home or something) and that way you have access to the data if the server dies.

Plan to include some sort of budget for maintenance if possible, even allow for $20-$50 month to be put aside in case something breaks, then you can take the cash and go straight to a store and buy the replacement.

 

[dwschoon]

You're saying these are not "mission critical" for a law office? If not, what is? If your home-built server goes down and the client data and accounting information can't be accessed, how will any work get done, emails be sent/received, clients get billed, or court papers be filed? What if the motherboard fries and it takes you 3 days to find a new one and get it shipped to you? While I'm sure you are capable of building a top notch server, lots of failures are out of your control but you will be blamed. I'm not trying to argue with you or question your capabilities, but you are taking a risk here IMO.

I understand that, but when we have problems now, we have to wait till the consultant feels like coming down here. He built our receptionists computer. The usb doesnt work on it due to hardware failure. The firm told him a month ago, and he still hasnt come in to replace the board. My boss is the attorney in charge of tech stuff and he relies on me a lot for computers here. He will be overseeing this project, so im not worried about the responsibility.