PS recommandation

[EZ-Spidey]

Hi people!

I've been having some stability issues with my dually and would
really appreciate some recommandations.

My specs:

- Iwill MPX2
- 2X o'ced m2500s at 2.4GHz
- GF Ti-4600 video card
- SB Live! sound card

After looking around, I'm convinced the problems are power supply
related. I have an Antec True Power 430 watt.

So far I've been advised to get a Fortron 550 watt. But they are
rather hard to get where I live so if you guys know of some great
alternatives, I would be most welcomed.

 

[johan851]

Where do you live?

 

[EZ-Spidey]

Montreal, Canada.

 

[EZ-Spidey]

By the way, video cards use which voltage rail, the 12v?

 

[Oklahoma Wolf]

If you don't mind ordering from the Toronto area, www.razorcomputers.net carries them under the Sparkle name. Just got my 530w from there, and can't say enough good things about their service

 

[johan851]

By the way, video cards use which voltage rail, the 12v?

They actually plug in to both rails, though I'm pretty sure the Radeon draws primarily if not completely from the 5v rail.

 

[EZ-Spidey]

Thanks Oklahoma Wolf! Will definetly look into it.

Knowing that about the video card and the rails kind of makes me
wonder if the problem is the power supply.

My system is unstable when I use the Ti-4600 but rock solid when
I try a much weaker card. It use to be just has stable with Ti-4600
until a few weeks ago.

The card is not defective, I tried it in different systems and its defi-
netly not my monitor.

Even when I unplug all the devices and remove the pci cards I dont
need, it wont even show the bootup screen. That's why I was sus-
pecting the PSU.

I'm still planning on getting that Sparkle or Fortron

 

[brennan77]

In your situation, I'd go for the throat and get a PC Power and Cooling. I may be wrong, but I can't imagine a Fortron of any wattage to be that great an advantage over an Antec 430. It may be better, but it won't totally elimate the concerns.

 

[Oklahoma Wolf]

I can't imagine a Fortron of any wattage to be that great an advantage over an Antec 430.

The Fortron 550w will be absolutely fine... in fact, it's almost overkill as far as the 12v rail goes. I've just made a similar leap from a Channel Well 420w (Antec's OEM supplier), to the Fortron 530w. Believe me, the Fortron's build quality is much more solid

 

[brennan77]

The Fortron 550w will be absolutely fine... in fact, it's almost overkill as far as the 12v rail goes. I've just made a similar leap from a Channel Well 420w (Antec's OEM supplier), to the Fortron 530w. Believe me, the Fortron's build quality is much more solid

Do you have any specs or reports that I might read? I'm not questioning you. I'm just curious. The Fortron is a great price even if only to equal the performance of an Antec. But if it significantly outperforms the Antec models, then that would be something.

 

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Do you have any specs or reports that I might read? I'm not questioning you. I'm just curious. The Fortron is a great price even if only to equal the performance of an Antec. But if it significantly outperforms the Antec models, then that would be something.

There haven't been many reviews of any use on the Fortrons over 500w so far... about the only thing I can suggest is to read through the forums to see how people are coming along with theirs.

My own experience has been that Fortron doesn't significantly outperform Channel Well, however they do have an edge in reliability and also tend to underrate their units. CWT is usually more conservatively rated, and below 380w or so they start to really lose ground against Fortron. Where their units under 380w tend meet the specs on the label adequately enough, Fortron gets even more underrated. The 350w FSP350-60BT was tested by Tom's to 454w - this model has powered dual CPU systems.

The difference as I see it to this thread is that the Antec True 430w (CWT-430AD) is a non-EPS design, while the Fortron is. The Fortron therefore has weaker 3.3 and 5v rails to compensate for a bigger 36a 12v rail - useful for multiple CPU servers.

I do think an Antec 480w or better could probably run the system ok with maybe a little strain, but the EPS Fortron is a little more suited to a dual CPU board.

 

[brennan77]

There haven't been many reviews of any use on the Fortrons over 500w so far... about the only thing I can suggest is to read through the forums to see how people are coming along with theirs.

My own experience has been that Fortron doesn't significantly outperform Channel Well, however they do have an edge in reliability and also tend to underrate their units. CWT is usually more conservatively rated, and below 380w or so they start to really lose ground against Fortron. Where their units under 380w tend meet the specs on the label adequately enough, Fortron gets even more underrated. The 350w FSP350-60BT was tested by Tom's to 454w - this model has powered dual CPU systems.

The difference as I see it to this thread is that the Antec True 430w (CWT-430AD) is a non-EPS design, while the Fortron is. The Fortron therefore has weaker 3.3 and 5v rails to compensate for a bigger 36a 12v rail - useful for multiple CPU servers.

I do think an Antec 480w or better could probably run the system ok with maybe a little strain, but the EPS Fortron is a little more suited to a dual CPU board.

I don't doubt that it's a better power supply, more suited for the job. My doubt is that it is significantly better. If the guy has a really nice Antec to start with, and it's having big trouble covering the load, then I have to suspect that even getting a better Fortron wouldn't take away all of the strain. It may well solve his problem, but I personally think it would still be on that edge of stress.

I may be totally off base. But I would think going with something that is head and shoulders above the rest would be the best option given the significantly load in question. That's why I think the PC Power and Cooling would be the best option. The Fortron, while definately better, is still on the same playing field, so to speak.

 

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Not sure what else to tell you... I don't find PC P&C's prices to be worth the trouble for most people when something a lot cheaper will do the job too. Especially when PC P&C is known to use parts from Fortron in some models in the first place. Lost my link to the PC P&C unit disassembled to show a big SPI stamp (Sparkle Power Inc - a Fortron subsidiary) on the circuit board, or I would show you some proof of that.

Edit - found the link at last - it's one of the older PC P&C 235w units, but it'll do for demonstration. The pic is near the bottom of the page. I've seen claims here and there on various forums that the 510w unit also has Fortron parts, but that one kind of looks more like a Zippy made unit to me (the only PSU maker that impresses me more than Fortron). They also are known to use parts from Win-Tact and Seasonic as well, so it's hard to say what exactly goes on behind the scenes at PC P&C; but I do agree some very fine units come out of their company. I just don't see them being that much better than what can be had easier for less money.

http://terasan.okiraku-pc.net/dengen/no10/

 

[EZ-Spidey]

These are stability problems I've been facing about 3 months after I poped in the
Ti-4600 in my rig: screen would randomly turn itself off in Windows and during boot
up sequences and on many occasions even when I'm just booting up my rig the
screen remains black.

None of these problems are present with a much weaker vidcard. I've tried every-
thing from testing the card in a different rig to using a different monitor, clearing
my CMOS.

My Antec TP worked fine for the 2 years I've had it. But also during that time I had
MPs 2000 and a GF2 MX. In my case getting o'ced mobiles and GF Ti card was a
big upgrade. All was working fine until recently.

 

[Section8]

I think the Fortron would be OK but if you don't want to chance it the PC Power and Cooling is the Ferrari of PSU's it will not let you down.

 

[Oklahoma Wolf]

If the card is working on other systems, I also tend to suspect the Antec is running out of gas, however one thing that totally slipped my mind is that you didn't mention what the rails on the Antec are like when it blacks out like that - have you a multimeter handy?

I should have thought of that sooner - having a real weird weekend

 

[EZ-Spidey]

No I don't... Just read that thread about it- NO EXCUSE I SHOULD HAVE ONE! hehehe.

 

[brennan77]

Not sure what else to tell you... I don't find PC P&C's prices to be worth the trouble for most people when something a lot cheaper will do the job too. Especially when PC P&C is known to use parts from Fortron in some models in the first place. Lost my link to the PC P&C unit disassembled to show a big SPI stamp (Sparkle Power Inc - a Fortron subsidiary) on the circuit board, or I would show you some proof of that.

Edit - found the link at last - it's one of the older PC P&C 235w units, but it'll do for demonstration. The pic is near the bottom of the page. I've seen claims here and there on various forums that the 510w unit also has Fortron parts, but that one kind of looks more like a Zippy made unit to me (the only PSU maker that impresses me more than Fortron). They also are known to use parts from Win-Tact and Seasonic as well, so it's hard to say what exactly goes on behind the scenes at PC P&C; but I do agree some very fine units come out of their company. I just don't see them being that much better than what can be had easier for less money.

http://terasan.okiraku-pc.net/dengen/no10/

I totally agree that it's overkill for most people to spend PC Power and Cooling kinda money. But then again, most people don't run dual CPU's, let alone heavily overclocked. I was under the impression that the PC P&C lineup was simply the best...the Ferarri of power supplies, as has been mentioned in this thread. I thought they were far better than your average Fortron and Antec. I may be totally wrong.

Heck, if Fortron is using the same parts, I'd have to say that it says more good about Fortron than it does bad about PC P&C. I'm no power supply snob. Look in my specs. I agree with you on your approach. I just think this guy's setup calls for the best given his dual overclocked CPU's, especially if he's already pushing an excellent power supply beyond its limits.

 

[Oklahoma Wolf]

Heck, if Fortron is using the same parts, I'd have to say that it says more good about Fortron than it does bad about PC P&C.

I'm in total agreement... I do think PC P&C does a fantastic job, and they clearly know which suppliers to use

I just don't think the dual socket A mainboard in question was designed to need the most exclusive PSU supplier out there. They wouldn't sell as many if it was

For myself, OTOH, I will probably never buy PC P&C. Cost is the biggest reason, but another big factor is that I don't see a whole lot of difference just yet between PC P&C's finest and Fortron's finest in terms of power output. I may change my mind if I see more thorough testing done, however I doubt I'll ever run a system that needs the full output of something like the 510w (at least not anytime soon), and anything below that over at PC P&C isn't worth the money IMO compared to the Fortron I just got.

Indeed, if my old CWT 420w was laughing at my present system before my upgrade (and it was), my Fortron 530w is rolling around on the ground in hysterics - it's definitely overkill for me