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Pump & Flow Contradictions

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dewoof01

Registered
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Ok another annoying W/C noob thread by me but the help from you guys has been awesome so far. I am having some issues with contradicting information i am recieving in regards to pumps & flow. Here is my setup.

Single Loop:

1x resevoir (to be determined)
1x GTX360
1x GTX240 (Just arrived today!)
1x CPU block
1x GPU block (maybe 2 in future but not seeing SLi being worth it)
1x Southbridge Block

Now as i have said in my previous threads i don't care about having enough to "run it" rather this is a very high end build i am doing and am wanting everything within reason for performance. My questions are...

1. 1 pump or 2 pumps?
2. DDC or D5?
3. Martins Flow chart showed a d5 as better flow in my setup but i see alot in forums people say a restrictive setup like mine a DDC with an aftermarket top will be better in a restrictive system. Which is true?
 

thorilan

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May 29, 2002
Location
Japan/Daytona Beach
/agree spawn
or if you like redundancy you can get 2 original 350 ( 9 watt versions)

but to be honest even with high end you can probably drop the southbridge cooling and make your res the res top reducing the amount of restriction in your loop
 
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dewoof01

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Nov 28, 2009
Well 2/2 is always a good start! Thank you guys for your comments. I know this is a rather common type of question and gets annoying, but I heavily research these things and like to be sure in my decisions before i make them. Would you guys go with the DD 3.2 18v, with the xspc res top? I can only think that the 18v would be better than the 12v as far as power and from what I've read it the top will fit with that pump, and hell its going to be 20 percent off until saturday night at Danger Den.
 

Spawn-Inc

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Well 2/2 is always a good start! Thank you guys for your comments. I know this is a rather common type of question and gets annoying, but I heavily research these things and like to be sure in my decisions before i make them. Would you guys go with the DD 3.2 18v, with the xspc res top? I can only think that the 18v would be better than the 12v as far as power and from what I've read it the top will fit with that pump, and hell its going to be 20 percent off until saturday night at Danger Den.

it's 18watts not volts. there are no ddc models, that i am aware of, that are 18volts.

here is the best one DD offers, DDC 3.25

i'm not sure if swiftech offers the 3.25 model yet but the one at sidewinders is cheaper then DD and since you will get getting the XSPC top why bother with DD.
 
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dewoof01

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Nov 28, 2009
Spawn,

Well i guess the 3.25 is better than the 3.2, however i cannot see any description of what the difference is, do you know? Ya i know i can't get the xspc res top at DD but they are about 100 miles from me and i get my stuff the next day.... and if i order over $100 right now i get 20 bucks off, so i just order some more compression fitting and basically get 2 or 3 for free....
 

Conumdrum

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
The 3.25 is barely better than the 3.2. Look at cost vs benefit. Whay are you cooling the SB? Kinda odd to see it cooled and not the NB and the mosfets. Please explain.

Also, you have a good amount of raddage there, I'm sure for heat removal. Care to tell me what your cooling and your planned overclocks? Also your expected room temps in the summer and you tolerance for noise.

One DDC3.2 might be okay, we don't know what CPU block your using. For example, a great block, the Koolance umm forget the number is VERY high restriction and needs to have it's own pump and loop, it needs high flow and pressure since it's so restrictive.

So, not enuff info for me to say yea or nay.
 
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dewoof01

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Nov 28, 2009
conumdrum,

I am sorry i meant northbridge, i was looking a list of waterblocks while i was typing and my brain isn't good at two things at once. I am actually considering NOT doing any MB cooling at first but may add north or everything, just wanted to leave that option in there. The cost difference is less than $10 so that is not a concern. I don't even know what CPU i am going with yet, so i cannot answer that. I will be using basically the best cooling block i can (thats within reason). I am planning on i7 or whatever is the best chip at that time, as well as with GPU whatever is the best when i get to that time. Right now i am basing everything off i7 oc'ed to 4.2+Ghz if possible, and a 5970 with a good OC on it as well. Sorry i can't help much i just do NOT want to buy components now when by the time i am finished with this build they are out of date.
 

Conumdrum

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Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
Okay. Lets say your gonna get an i7 and a 5970. Or a i5 and a 5970. You'll need at a MINIMUM 120x4 or a 140x3 rad for that, with no Mobo cooling. You add in the NB/SB/Mosfet (since motherboards have an integrated cooling setup for all 3) you'll need to be thinking TWO loops due to flow rates, besides trying to keep the CPU cool with all the heat added. One pump per loop, seperate from each other.

Your gonna be big with this watercooling, or you probably won't be happy with your temps.
 

voigts

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Tennessee
If you stuck with both rads, a non-restrictive CPU block like the Swiftech XT, GPU, and Northbridge, you could get away with one MCP355 pump with top and still be between 1-1.5gpm, which is where you want to be in regards to flow. Its when you start adding mosfets and SB and whatever that you do need to be looking at 2 loops. Unless you are looking at really extreme overclocking, most of the MBs coming out these days have pretty good heatpipe coolers for the mosfets and will work fine with just a bit of airflow. Most NB heatsinks work fine as well. The ones on my MB have heatpipes going between the NB and mosfets, and do the job just fine while 24x7 overclocked.

Especially when you are new to watercooling, keep it simple. Start with a CPU/GPU single pump loop.
 
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dewoof01

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Nov 28, 2009
Well i don't want to adapt to 2 loops in the future with this case as i am making all my cuts and holes, etc. right now before paint. Would i be fine just maybe upgrading the stock heatsinks etc. on the motherboard, or if i want to go really extreme with watercooling should i bit the bullet and do two loops now rather than later? You responses are really appreciated, they've been a big help.
 

x509

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Location
California
Well i don't want to adapt to 2 loops in the future with this case as i am making all my cuts and holes, etc. right now before paint. Would i be fine just maybe upgrading the stock heatsinks etc. on the motherboard, or if i want to go really extreme with watercooling should i bit the bullet and do two loops now rather than later? You responses are really appreciated, they've been a big help.

Hi. I'm a n00b when it comes to watercooling, so I can't, or shouldn't :shrug: comment on the components, etc. But I think that I can suggest a case that will give you a lot of future-proofing, and has lots of room inside. Have you considered the Corsair 800D? :welcome: Already painted black on the inside, different cooling zones for motherboard, disk drives, and power supply. Also separate area for cable management, pre-drilled for triple-radiator, etc. Simply gorgeous. :thup:

x509
 

Conumdrum

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Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
You have to figure your heatload to determine your raddage requirements then think of flow rates as you add parts.

An i7 needs at a MIN for good temps a 120x2. Your planned GPU is a HOT one under load, so for sure a 120x2 for it, and you say you hopefully want 4.2 out of the CPU. Better plan for a 120x3 for just the CPU. Then you have to think what will the GPU heatload if above a 120x2 low Delta T heatoad do to my CPU and planned massive (if even possible) overclocks? So since you can't buy a 120x5 rad, your looking at a second loop for the GPU, especially if a 5970 and you said overclock it.

Understand? You need low CPU temps to maximize your planned CPU overclocks. We'll see if your mobo, chip, and mem let you hit 4.2. But we can help with temps by making sure your WC setup is big enuff.

How much reading and chart deciphering have you done for heatloads at Martins and Skinnes website? Look at the graphs. For your overclock and planned rad look at the 5C Delta T scale for your CPU, and the 10 to 15C scale for your GPU.

Once you get this kinda understood, then we can continue. It's not easy, took me a while to figure it out. But your going really big, you better get it right now before you get bummed out. Skinnee and Martins have the physics science figured out. 120x3 for CPU, 120x3 for the GPU if you plan to add the NB/SB/Mosfets.
 
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Conumdrum

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
Hi. I'm a n00b when it comes to watercooling, so I can't, or shouldn't :shrug: comment on the components, etc. But I think that I can suggest a case that will give you a lot of future-proofing, and has lots of room inside. Have you considered the Corsair 800D? :welcome: Already painted black on the inside, different cooling zones for motherboard, disk drives, and power supply. Also separate area for cable management, pre-drilled for triple-radiator, etc. Simply gorgeous. :thup:

x509

Thanks, we have to do heatload calculations and ambient temp considerations. We aren't even into what will fit or what fans yet. We are still at the physics level of watercooling. We'll let you know when we are past the math part and decide on a pretty box to hold it all.

Pink? no? Plaid? Yes!
 

voigts

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Tennessee
The ATI5970 can run up to 300w under load. That I7 from what i get on outervision's PSU calculator website is around 200w overclocked. Using medium speed fans at 1400rpm, you are looking at about a 6c delta for a 300w heat load on a GTX360, which will yield good temps. You should do ok with the dual rad on the CPU if the 200w heat load is correct. If you are going to add any other blocks, then you do need another triple rad for the CPU/blocks. If it was me, I would go with dual triple rads.

You also have to answer the question as to what level of noise you can live with as it effects what rads/fans you should be using.The GTX is designed to work best with higher cfm fans. If you want a quieter setup, you should be going with XSPC RX, Swiftech MCR, Thermochill, Feser, etc. that are designed to perform best with low-medium airflow.
 
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dewoof01

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Nov 28, 2009
voigts,

Link to my Build:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=626235

I have ultra kaze 3k fans for the rads and case cooling that will be running on a fan controller.

From what i have been reading people say the i7 with a good overclock needs a triple, but i saw the 200w calculation last week as well on the antec psu calculator same as you. I am thinking of just going CPU and GPU for now as you guys all advised, but am worried about reaching my goals with one loop and not cooling the MB.

Conumdrum,

I will look at those charts, i didn't know what they were so didn't pay attention to them before, but i have done alot of research on skinnee and martin's sites, they are great for providing that service free to everyone. I see what you are saying, my big issue is i can only hold a 120.3 & 120.2 internally in my case as you and i have discussed in previous threads, without making it look horribly crowded.

Is there a better way to cool the MB outside of the stock heatsinks besides watercooling?
 

Conumdrum

Member
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Sep 15, 2007
Location
Small town Emlenton, PA
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dewoof01

Registered
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Nov 28, 2009
Excellent. I knew they did just am not sure if that is a viable solution to help reach my goals, but i think it is just something i am going to have to try out and find out.

Ok so with everyones great help so far on this thread this is plan. 1 loop, 1 DDC 355 with xspc res top, GTX 360, GTX240, CPU i7 Block, GPU block.

And from what I am understanding.... We are all in agreement this will be MORE than sufficient flow for my overclocking plans i described earlier?