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question about lapping

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Yodums

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Location
Ottawa, Canada
Emericana said:
i am about to start to attempt to lab using yodums method w/ 2000 grit... just in case it did not work, i got this stuff at auto zone 3m rubbing compound fine cut... this is NOT POLISH. It removes the scratches from the bottom of metal and was designed to be used w/ 3m sandpaper.... does anybody have any comments about wheter or not to use the rubbing compund?

Don't use anything on the base. No lap guide you find will tell you to do this. It may degrade the performance, as we know people already tried this and there was no gain. The thing is that it may just fill the scratches with something, that makes the scratch no visible and the thermal compound on the base of the heatsink will have no effect.
 
OP
Emericana

Emericana

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2002
Location
Boulder CO
yeah i just tried w/ 2000 and i still got scratches galore... i used yodoms method and it didnt work for me... here is the order i went w/ my sk6...

220 grit... till i got it flat
400 grit... till i got it perfectly flat
600 grit... for a long time and i still got a ton of scratches
1000 grit.... for a long time.. turned into a mirror but there were scratches
1500 grit
2000 grit


all i am saying is that before i had my sk6 lapped, i got 43C LOAD and with it lapped previously up to 1500 (w/ scratches) i got 44C IDLE....
 

Yodums

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2001
Location
Ottawa, Canada
I think it lost some contact now......................... I think it's your sandpaper............................ I'm kind of clueless...
 

rlemieux

Cyber Deal King
Joined
Mar 13, 2002
Location
The Big Easy
Re: why water

so many choices said:
Can you guys tell me why you guys sand with water? I've tried this method before and all it seemed to do was make it harder for me to do my fluid circles. Every time I tried with water my heatsink would stick to the sand paper and I found that sanding without water made it much easier.

What are the gains with sanding with water over without?

I's there a method to make sanding with water so your hs doesn't stick to the paper?

If you have ever worked in an industrial site.... which most of you I am guessing have not, water sanding produces a much smother finish. Essentially, what you are doing is giving the surface you are sanding, in your case a heatsink, a cushion to glide on. So you are actually getting a smoother surface than dry paper.

If anyone has ever seen metal cut with water, I know most of you cannot fathom this, but it is the smoothest thing I have ever seen. No nicks, scratches, just a nice mirror finish. That is what you are trying to replicate.
 
OP
Emericana

Emericana

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2002
Location
Boulder CO
tomorrow i am gonna go and lap a alpha 8045 (my main heatsink, the sk6 is for another pc)... i am gonna go
400
600
1000
1200
1500
2000

gonna be a long fun day of lapping! i am gonna do it using hoots method cause i never have tried using dish soap... i doubt it will do any good but i will post the results tomorrow night
 

rivercom9

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Location
Sacramento, CA
Depending on the initial roughness of the base, 400 grit seems to be a bit harsh and would seem like you would lose a whole lot of contact. If the base is just a bit rough, I would suggest starting with 600 grit.
 

JFettig

Hey! I showered! Senior
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Location
MN
ok heres your problem, the scratches are from your 200 and 400, your not lappin the 200 out with the 400 enough, and not lappin out the 400 with the 600 enough.... then it should work, and i think you only need to go up to 600, it gives you a semi-mirror apearance and any more wont buy you any performance...
 

so many choices

Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2002
Location
San Jose, CA
Re: Re: why water

rlemieux said:


If you have ever worked in an industrial site.... which most of you I am guessing have not, water sanding produces a much smother finish. Essentially, what you are doing is giving the surface you are sanding, in your case a heatsink, a cushion to glide on. So you are actually getting a smoother surface than dry paper.

If anyone has ever seen metal cut with water, I know most of you cannot fathom this, but it is the smoothest thing I have ever seen. No nicks, scratches, just a nice mirror finish. That is what you are trying to replicate.


I understand what you guys are saying in theory but I just find it very hard to sand with water. I've tried the liquid soap technique, but no matter how many times I try, my heatsink will keep on sticking to my sand paper. I am using 3m sand paper (300, 500, 600, 1200). I also find it useless to go past 600 as i don't see any results sanding with my 1200.

A friend of mine told me to try steel wool. Do you guys think this is a good idea? Wouldn't it be hard to make it flat resulting in your heatsink not flat?
 

rlemieux

Cyber Deal King
Joined
Mar 13, 2002
Location
The Big Easy
Steel wool sounds like a bad idea. It would defeat the whole purpose of taping the paper down to a flat surface. I dont see how you would be able to make sure it was completely flat.
 
OP
Emericana

Emericana

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2002
Location
Boulder CO
Ok... i finished lapping my alpha... i went just as i said in an above post but i skipped 1200.... now, i read masked geeks post but it is not the truth cause i did just as long, if not longer on each grit as the previous one... However, the alpha is definetly the best one i have lapped so far. the scratches appear to be the smallest on it. However, the mirror is not perfect, more murky, and i think that is because the alphas have a much lighter type of copper than the sk6 has.... i needed to start at 400 on the alpha because a previous attempt at lapping it made it not flat... i had to flatten it out and the method of putting a TON of pressure on it and twisting the heatsink 360 degrees worked perfectly and was much quicker than to what i was accustomed to doing.... here is a pic looking down at the alpha... the scatches in the pic will probably be mostly filled w/ AS3 and are not as bad as they look in the pic.
 
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Emericana

Emericana

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2002
Location
Boulder CO
i also tried out the 3m scratch remover on a coolermaster heatpipe that i had lying around. it was unsuccessfully lapped up to 1500 grit.... the heatsink is not used anymore because it does not fit in epox mobos... i used it when i had a msi (in epos mobos ithe pipes hit the northbridge hsf.

the reflection produced by this one was deffinetly the best out of the three but i know that is not what you are going for. it however did stop most of the scratches but not all of them.
 
OP
Emericana

Emericana

Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2002
Location
Boulder CO
and here was my sk6 at 2000... i had decent results with this... i have yet to ever do a perfect lapping job tho
 

Kaiser_Sose

Registered
Joined
Mar 22, 2002
You guys are talking about removing the scratches the lower grit paper produces ....... is this for asthetic reasons or do the scratches produce poor performance

I dont see scratches on any of these photos
 

rlemieux

Cyber Deal King
Joined
Mar 13, 2002
Location
The Big Easy
Kaiser_Sose said:
You guys are talking about removing the scratches the lower grit paper produces ....... is this for asthetic reasons or do the scratches produce poor performance

I dont see scratches on any of these photos

Large scratches or imperfections in the heatsink will reduce performance. The more surface you have contacting the CPU the more heat distribution. But it is not nessecary to lap, but it does help.
 

splat

ASCII Moderator
Joined
Apr 6, 2002
i took woodworking in high school and we used watersanding to do finishes mostly. The water is supposed to remove all the little particles that u cut off while sanding. normal sanding produces dust, water sanding keeps the dust from getting in to the air, catching it in the water. the water also serves to reduce the heat created by the friction between the sandpaper and the metal. when we were doing finishes on guitars adn everything else we made in shop, we only went up to 1000, anythign about that is just rediculous. like other people have said, the point of the slow progression of sandpapers is to keep reducing the size of the scratches. if u start on 200, which is probably too corse for metal, the 300 should be used til the scratches created with the 200 are gone, then 400 till the 300's r gone, etc. using 1000 to remove scratches created using even 400 sand paper is way to time consuming.
 

splat

ASCII Moderator
Joined
Apr 6, 2002
o yeah, i wanted to say that in the wood shop, we used sanding stones to sharpen chisels. these blocks were kept in water all the time and had very fin grits...if i remember correctly, we had a 800 and 100 grit blocks. the blocks would wear down where we had run the chisels over for a long time, though it took a long time for these blocks to wear down...i never saw a block replaced my entire 4 years taking wood working. i dunno how good these would be for lapping, might be woth a try. might be expensive tho
 

dream caster

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Most shiny and the best mirror surface don 't make the best heat transfer. There were several experiences telling that lapping with sand paper over 600 was detrimental.
I do not think there is ONE way to move in this theme. I think you have to find a way to move flatly the sand paper and the heatsink. I did it this way last time: i cut a small piece from a plastic ruler about 1''x1'' and i sticked on it small squares of sand paper with double faced stick tape. Getting a flat surface was much easier for me if i had to move this small flat piece of plastic over the heatsink(about 1/16'' thick) and not a 60x60x80mm heatsink over a sheet of sand paper.
I think for next heatsink i will go thru all this process again,and i will try to do it in the most traditional way first, and if i can't I will use this same method again.