Question about water used in cleaning new parts or flushing.

[Murum]

First time Looper QuestionLog.

First of all lets me start by saying hello to everyone and thank you for having me in this wealth of information heaven.

First time looper here so excuse some noobish and weird question that you will possibly read from me in the upcoming future.

Got a simple question, for the people here if they could possibly help me as distilled water is unavailable for purchase normally in my country and just importing it seems to cost 4-5 times more than the actual product price... and the tap water is not the best quality...

I've looked for alternatives through the medical field as i think they use similar stuff in their field, but let me get down to the point so i dont overly drag this post.

Is WFI(Water for injection) or Surgical Irrigation Water suitable for the usage for cleaning parts for the first time as an alternative of distilled water, as i can get those at a much more affordable price they both go through sterilization and distillation or RO but i can't seem to clarify if they get any mineral supplement's added back to the water prior to use back in their respective fields...

I feel in the end am nitpicking at this last part that i need to purchase after spending so much money, so looking for your advice if anybody has any idea(having all this hardware sitting around cause i can't find h20 to clean them is screwing with my mind xD).

Again sorry for the noobish question and thanks for any clarity to this.

~Murum

 

[DaPoets]

You could just make it yourself in large quantities for like no cost at all. When I was in middle school or high-school we made it in science class. Here is a quick tutorial.

https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Distilled-Water

Not sure about WFI, you would need to ensure it doesn't have anything in it that would react poorly w/ what ever metals are in your loop....

 

[Robert17]

The above link is great if you can get ice readily. There are also multi step options otherwise but are very time consuming. If all else fails, you can suspend any convex (dome side down) above a collection jar and let the sun evaporate dew which will collect on the suspended dome which will then drip into the jar. Problem here is very low volume and the collection must be gathered every mid-morning or the jar's contents will evaporate (this is survivalist tech for the most part).

 

[Murum]

I'll try giving it a try to see the yield but honestly though due to time limitation and irregular shifts from work if WFI or surgical irrigation water is unsuitable i'll probably opt for importing it, regardless thank you for the suggestions.
It's a copper core loop with nickel plated blocks, @DaPoets sorry should of mentioned it.

 

[Robert17]

If memory serves me correctly, surgical irrigation water is distilled water.

 

[Murum]

I've semi confirmed that as well through a third party talking to the manufacturer, was hoping someone had a similar experience with me and tried using WFI or SIW, suppose i'l try to get in direct contact or purchase a sample to view the contents of it.
Thanks again.

 

[Zerileous]

I'm a nurse and I don't actually know what is in the WFI. I think sometimes it comes with biocides / preservatives though, depending on if it is a single use or multiple dose vial. One example would be 0.9% benzyl alcohol, not sure what that would do to the loop. What I've encountered comes in a 10ml or 20ml vial and is used for reconstituting certain powdered medications that don't mix well with 0.9% sodium chloride solution (aka normal saline). I can certainly take a picture next time I work in a few days, if you think that would be helpful.

Looking here, in the USA, it is chemically designated H2O." In other words, I believe it would be pure water.

 

[mackerel]

Which country are you in?

Is de-ionised water available as a similar alternative?

Is there much of a hobby of keeping marine fish where you are? Fish stores may sell reverse osmosis water but this isn't to a very pure level as they may cut costs on the filtration system, and it will remove around 95% of whatever is in the local tap water. If you know anyone who keeps marine fish themselves, check if they have their own reverse osmosis + deionisation system as the output of that is near enough chemically pure.

You might also look up how much a filtration system is to buy. Normally reverse osmosis (RO) is used in combination with deionisation resin (DI) as it is most cost effective when producing large quantities of pure water. If you only want to make limited amounts then you could get away with going DI only, but be aware to check performance so you know when the resin is used up. A total dissolved solids (TDS) meter off ebay doesn't cost a lot, and indicates how pure water is by measuring its conductivity.

 

[godevskii]

Just put a bucket outside when it is raining... or as @mackerel says search for deionized water, back in the days car batteries used to be filled with this and sulfuric acid. So maybe try to find a car parts shop or even a mechanic garage, they should have this.

 

[Murum]

I'm a nurse and I don't actually know what is in the WFI. I think sometimes it comes with biocides / preservatives though, depending on if it is a single use or multiple dose vial. One example would be 0.9% benzyl alcohol, not sure what that would do to the loop. What I've encountered comes in a 10ml or 20ml vial and is used for reconstituting certain powdered medications that don't mix well with 0.9% sodium chloride solution (aka normal saline). I can certainly take a picture next time I work in a few days, if you think that would be helpful.

Looking here, in the USA, it is chemically designated H2O." In other words, I believe it would be pure water.

Looking at the gov pharmaceutical list here there's 1lt bottles for sell of either WFI or SIW for like 1.5 - 1.7 eu per lt, it wouldnt hurt certainly for reference, but i'll drop by tomorrow myself in the end and get some of the questions answered to be sure

Which country are you in?

Is de-ionised water available as a similar alternative?

Is there much of a hobby of keeping marine fish where you are? Fish stores may sell reverse osmosis water but this isn't to a very pure level as they may cut costs on the filtration system, and it will remove around 95% of whatever is in the local tap water. If you know anyone who keeps marine fish themselves, check if they have their own reverse osmosis + deionisation system as the output of that is near enough chemically pure.

You might also look up how much a filtration system is to buy. Normally reverse osmosis (RO) is used in combination with deionisation resin (DI) as it is most cost effective when producing large quantities of pure water. If you only want to make limited amounts then you could get away with going DI only, but be aware to check performance so you know when the resin is used up. A total dissolved solids (TDS) meter off ebay doesn't cost a lot, and indicates how pure water is by measuring its conductivity.

Just put a bucket outside when it is raining... or as @mackerel says search for deionized water, back in the days car batteries used to be filled with this and sulfuric acid. So maybe try to find a car parts shop or even a mechanic garage, they should have this.

Live in Cyprus
I can pick up de-ionized water from an auto-part store but i was under the impression that it can questionably lead to corrosion or is this outdated information or rather only true for long term usage? therefore can i simply use that without issue for cleaning manufacturing impurities/debris from new parts and flushing a system for maintenance?

I'll head out tomorrow to figure out the contents of WFI/SIW see if it sterile pure water and if thats the case i'll pick it up i suppose

otherwise if short term usage of de-ionized is just fine then i'll take a long drive and buy some.

...argh this is literally the one thing that's been driving me insane is what can i use or not or if it even really truly matters.

 

[Conumdrum]

Deionized, Distilled, good quality Reverse Osmosis water are all just fine. For flushing and cleaning sink water is just fine, al long as it's not bad well water. It's the long term use of water with impurities that can cause build-up of minerals in a loop.

So clean, rinse etc to your hearts content. Use any of the three above to fill the loop.

I have some stickies about water tests etc you could read up top.

 

[Murum]

Funny enough i actually went through the stickies don't know if i skipped over the more detailed parts or just was to tired from work to pay attention, will go through them once again once am rested up, did order a 1lt sample of both WFI, and SIW to personally check em out if i get anywhere with those will let you know tomorrow.

 

[InsertNameHere]

Personally I use tap water to wash, clean fittings, blocks, rads. Then I rinse them thoroughly with distilled water.

I used to use distilled water by itself in my loops. But bad things happened. So know I always run distilled water and a concentrate from a company like mayhems

I’m using mayhems pastel white and distilled water at the moment.

 

[Murum]

Sorry for the late reply i've been a little busy, just throwing an update, i've had a late shipment(was deemed lost) of distilled water finally arrive after a month since the order of it was made, which would probably last me for a quite some time so i think that solves my immediate issues but further down the line i will avoid bringing it from abroad if i need it or not and will probably use de-ionized other than that i also picked up a SIW 1lt vial just to see what it is exactly.

I'll be frank about it i have no idea what some of the terminology on it really means or indicates of it's content this is exactly whats written on the vial.

"Water for Irrigation, DISTILLED WATER STERILE APYROGENIC, 1000ml Hypotonic Solution For Irrigation Only not for Injection" would someone like to clarify? and if this is something that is usable i guess it's another alternative source of water to clean parts with for people like me.

this was 1,7 eu

 

[mackerel]

Looking it up on google:

Apyrogenic - not causing heat/fever
Hypotonic - lower osmotic pressure (than something else, such as body fluids)

Well, they both could cover pure water.

 

[Zerileous]

mackerel is correct. If it's distilled that is probably ok then. Check for any indication of a preservative, as it might not be compatible with the metals. If you see something like "single use only" or "preservative free" then you should be good to use it. If there is a preservative, it will be labeled somewhere on the bottle (or at least it would be by US standards, I can't imagine it not being similar anywhere else).

FYI: Apyrogenic is on there because some forms of sterile water come with preservatives and other additives that can cause fevers in some circumstances. This does not necessarily mean without additives, just without certain ones. Hypotonic is noted because human plasma (blood minus cells) is about 300 milli-osmoles per kilogram. If pure water is injected directly into human tissue, cells that come in direct contact with it will absorb so much water due to the osmotic pressure gradient that they will burst (cytolysis). Not super relevant to water cooling, but that's why it's on the label.

 

[Murum]

Question: Rads Intake or Exhaust? 900D

Hello again, seems like am getting more and more questions as i get into the design of my loop through planning hoping i get some advice from here during those times.

So to lay out the case got everything ordered and waiting for my last parts(blocks and some extra fittings that i figured out through some simple diagrams and visualizing the build)

While am waiting for them to be delivered on the 7th(....hell it's just on my birthday #feelsgood)i arived at a conflict which i assume will eventually either raise the ambient temp within my case by a few degrees(hence actual part temps) or matter not at all. For starters let me just dump a simple sketch layout diagram of my loop(this was just done while i was working so....it's not exactly a CAD design) following the first(top)sketch layout currently and am figuring things out as i come across them, gpu waterblock and monoblock(cpu,vrms)


and for the lack of air flow diagram ill post an old pic just to show the air flow that i was planning


Assume no obstruction between the front intake air flow (all fans are corsair HD in the rig) and also both rads are a pull/push config for a total of 21 fans in the case.

Question the top rad do i keep it as an exhaust push pull config and maintain the natural flow order within the case or do i convert it into an intake rad like the bottom left pedestal one will it make that much of a difference?

Cause i assume without knowing better and following simple logic having both rads as intake would increase the ambient temperatures of the inside of the case(closed case) but for that drawback the cooling for the top rad would increase(since it will receive cooler room ambient air? while on the other hand having the top radiator as an exhaust would create a better airflow which would actually reduce ambient temperature within the case hence an overall better temperature with the drawback that the top rad would suck up a somewhat warmer air to function(atleast the left side of the rad since it would pull the warm exhaust air from the flow while the right side would pull clean and cool intake air from the front of the case).

since they both have some drawback does it actually not matter to the point of the difference between the setup be minute/irrelevant?

Opinions? Reasoning?

Part list here while it includes 2-3 items thats still unpurchased(2nd gpu 2nd pair of ram and the screen of which am waiting for X35 to come out...before i die...of old age...)

Loop major part list.
Blocks EK-Vector Strix RTX 2080 Ti, and motherboard/cpu/ monoblock EK-FB ASUS X399 GAMING RGB Monoblock - Nickel utilizing 2xEK-CoolStream PE 480 rads with the EK-XTOP Revo D5 RGB PWM, EK-RES X3 250 RGB pump/reservoir, hard tube, hope that helps if my build is not clear enough to anybody interested.

*note
I'll make a Building Log Thread if i have another question so i don't start threads with each obstacle

 

[Alaric]

In a case that size, with that level of airflow (21 fans) it won't make much, if any, difference in cooling. Except possibly using the top rad as an intake could raise temps inside the case by virtue of exhausting the warmed rad air inside while cutting off the natural exit of the hot air. I would orient the fans to exhaust through the top, myself. That many fans and the volume of air in that case should provide more than enough airflow to keep temps about as low as ambient cooling can.

 

[Murum]

That was my initial plan and still is until i've read somewhere(if for the life of me can remember what article was it) that rads should be intake always for the reasoning of maximizing the performance of the rads by always pulling in the cool room ambient air which got me thinking does it really apply in my case(pun intended situation/=case=/PC)? since like you say with that amount of airflow and unobstructed front cool intake giving cool air inside the case.

Seem's like it's gonna be hard to get a definitive answer unless i do a hands on try using the rads both ways min/max the airflow of the fans using fan curves and monitor the temps at different loads.

*Irrelevent to the actual question of this threat but if you look at the sketch to the connection of the reservoir and pump it's actually 1 tube(shaded one) and not a Y section tube but it just got me thinking ain't it better pressure wise to actually have a Y tube feeding the pump? or do flow dynamics not work that way or help.

 

[jfriend00]

The highest amount of radiator cooling comes when you have the coolest air possible entering the radiator. If you're trying to optimize for that, then you always have the radiators mounted with intake fans so you have true ambient air from outside the case entering your radiators.

The tradeoff with doing it this way is that you will have slightly higher air temps inside the case (because the intake air coming through the radiators has been pre-heated). If that intake air is also the air that your GPU gets cooled by, then it becomes a real tradeoff between CPU cooling and GPU cooling. If both CPU and GPU are on your custom loop, then the only tradeoff is that the VRMs, RAM and other things on the motherboard that might like a little cooling get slightly warmer air. But, as long as you have sufficiently good VRMs for your overclock and have a motherboard with semi-decent heatsinks, that usually isn't your heating bottleneck and one can usually make a better overall system using intake air into the radiators.

If you have a lot of airflow through the case and it's good flow through the case (in, through and immediately out), not just lots of air being blown around in circles then the difference between intake radiators vs. exhaust radiators is less and it matters less which you choose.

There's a lot of really good stuff on cooling airflow here: https://www.overclock.net/forum/246...s-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data.html. My favorite summary of what you learn by reading that is you want "good flow, not blow".