Question on Windows Update Service

[MVC]

I just did a clean install of XP SP2 on a new build and was met with a barrage of "updates." Rather than go through them one-by-one, I was wondering if anyone could recommend an update service that would provide me with just the real security updates. I know Microsoft likes to sneak in their spyware (I've had to remove WGA from one computer twice and I've never downloaded it--it must have been hidden in another "update" and I'm not sure I've got it completely cleaned out--hence the new build). So, is there a site or service with just the updates I really should have?

Oh, and I don't don't mind paying (within reason) to subscribe to a service that will filter the real updates from the garbage if such exists.

Thanks,
Mark

 

[GreenJelly]

Microsoft does not spy on there users. I can promise you this....

I know allot of people are afraid of Big Bad Microsoft. They are one of the largest companies in the US, and the largest software manufacturer. Hackers, Crackers, and Criminals are constantly picking at the OS, finding problems with it, and looking for ANY breach of ethics they could use to tear windows apart.

As far as update services... No there are none that I know of, and your message is suspect for a person who has hacked a copy of MS Windows, and now has problems so they need updates... but they cant update cause its hacked. If this isnt the case then I am sorry.

But to assume that Microsoft Update service is spyware is absurd, and a bit paranoid. I am no Microsoft Fan Boy, I think they make good products. I feel that 99% of their problems arise from their 95% market saturation, I also truely wish their was an alternative to MS Windows XP and Vista that would support the games and the software I enjoy so much.

If you want to reduce the AMOUNT of D/L's needed on re-installation. Or if you plan on re-installing windows on a SATA HD, then call Microsoft with your Key, and have them ship you a Windows XP SP2 version.

My solution is to...

A) Buy a Copy of MS Windows (you can even get a coupon for a free update version of Vista)

or

B) Use the Update service with confidence.

Dont get me wrong, I am no saint when it comes with software purchasing. But I try my best, and I never hack or crack software that I rely on for an extended period of time. Its not worth the hastle of not beign able to get updates and such. Most of the stuff I do, or did, hack I either stop using cause it sucks or I go buy it.

Mike

 

[MVC]

Microsoft does not spy on there users. I can promise you this....

I know allot of people are afraid of Big Bad Microsoft. They are one of the largest companies in the US, and the largest software manufacturer. Hackers, Crackers, and Criminals are constantly picking at the OS, finding problems with it, and looking for ANY breach of ethics they could use to tear windows apart.

As far as update services... No there are none that I know of, and your message is suspect for a person who has hacked a copy of MS Windows, and now has problems so they need updates... but they cant update cause its hacked. If this isnt the case then I am sorry.

But to assume that Microsoft Update service is spyware is absurd, and a bit paranoid. I am no Microsoft Fan Boy, I think they make good products. I feel that 99% of their problems arise from their 95% market saturation, I also truely wish their was an alternative to MS Windows XP and Vista that would support the games and the software I enjoy so much.

Mike

Microsoft may not be actively spying on their customers yet, but they are increasingly creating the conditions where they can do so. Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they don't want to control my computer.

My copy of XP isn't hacked, and I can easily tell the new install to just download all of the 50 or so "updates" it wants to feed me. But, I know Microsoft wants to give me "updates" that benefit Microsoft and DON'T benefit me. Sorry, but I paid for everything in my computer and I want it to do what I want it to do, not what Microsoft wants it to do--and sending back reports to Microsoft every couple of weeks that my copy of Windows is still legal doesn't benefit me.

 

[aftermath]

yeah i know what you mean did a reinstall of 2k last week and had great fun with the updates for that. The best ones are the ones with up dates to updates, you know u dl media player of ie or some patch and there are 5 or 6 updates for each! Can u tell me why they don't just fix the source at the source? oh the fun!


There is a program called "Microsoft Baseline Security Analyzer 2.0.1"

this scans your PC and will tell you the problems.

reed all the descriptions then ms search the knowledge base. for the KB{random seaming number}

find the redistributable files and save them to a cd instead of the net-installer ones.

edit :: I deleted the install file for 2.0 and now can't uninstall it from my server. it just pops up a brows box when i try to uninstall it, not that i need vista support or whatever 2.0.1 brings.

edit2: m$ is a laugh just installed xp on a virtual pc (vmware) runs really well by rdp but heres the fun BITS is not started as default and I was trying to get automatic updates to work or use windows update site. the error the web page gives me says nothing of use. Mr/Ms J. SixPack would have probably 1 left it un-updated 2. paid for some one to fix it.

 

[MVC]

Yeah, XP installed fine, and then offered me the 3.1 installer which I don't remember causing any problems so I installed it. Then, it went back and found 50-60 new "updates" one of which was for Outlook Express, and unless Outlook Express is/was bundled with XP SP2 it isn't on this system. The only software I've installed so far is XP, the Asus Ethernet drivers, the nVidia drivers, and Firefox.

I know I can go through all of those "updates" individually and research them at MS's Knowledge Base but I was hoping someone else had already done the work so I wouldn't have to--no reason to re-invent the wheel. But, the only patch management software I'm finding is enterprise level, and enterprise priced, so maybe I'll wind up having to do this the hard way

I wish I could just get rid of Windows, my two Ubuntu machines are fine for 90% of what I need to do but that last 10% of legacy apps and stuff I need for work means I have to keep at least one functioning Windows box.

 

[GreenJelly]

You have complete control of everything that leaves or enters your system. Buy a external or internal firewall, if you are that worried.

Data is exchanged between you and microsoft for Validation of Windows, On Error's if you actively submit your request, and for DRM purposes on Windows Media player ONLY if you check that box. It also exchanges data on potential updates, and information on your system when you use the Upgrade Service. Ofcourse, ALL of these are easily disabled or not able to be used, IF you want to disable any of these they are in the services application under administration tools. Just click STOP, and turn off AUTO!

Microsoft is VERY transparent in their activities. They have no intention of selling any data to anyone, '
A) they are simply not in that business
B) someone would find out, and companies would pull every desktop they have, and then sue the hell out of Microsoft for protential violation of trade secretes.
C) They develop applications like Microsoft SQL, Microsoft Server, ETC... These applications sales would imediately drop to 0.

Like I said, everything that Microsoft Sends out, is analysed and watched by allot of different companies, and many different people. They dont screw around, they are under a microscope.

However, if ALL of this still makes your cringe about using their service, you can buy a Microsoft 2003 Server, Setup the Primary Domain Controller and Corporate Update Service, and then distribute updates from your server to all of your computers. That way Microsoft will only know what your server Downloaded and they wouldnt have any idea what you actually installed.

You also have the option of researching EACH update, and what it does, then choosing what to install.

Mike

Im real sorry that you have these ideas about Microsoft. They do allot of bad things, but this is not one of them. They would be ruined if they added spyware to your computer on any installation.

 

[aftermath]

just do the critical ones?

problem is most are quite serious when its ms half seem to be ones that are similar to others or the one in the image file handeling... Hum can u say BACK DOOR?

http://www.sans.org/top20/#w2


GreenJelly you do not have complete control of the programs and processes that connect to the internet. You can inject code in to DLLs or EXEs you can uses generic host process to rap up your nasty code to look like its nothing unusual you can set up the headers in the packets that your code is sending to go to some completely benign router and have the old header ripped off and replaced with one that directs the packet to a server blocked by your IP rules.

oh and theres SVCHost another grate program provided by ms to hide a service/DLL in yes i know how to find out what these services are running and i know what they should be running but I could still be cough out by a DLL that includes a key logger or other trogen.

edit forgot one DLLhosts.exe edit2 my bad dllhost.exe

 

[GreenJelly]

Then, it went back and found 50-60 new "updates" one of which was for Outlook Express, and unless Outlook Express is/was bundled with XP SP2 it isn't on this system.

Now first, Windows XP SP2 automatically includes Outlook Express which you can disable in the advance setup option in windows.l

Microsoft does not Transmit what software, you have installed. You complain about privacy, but then you get upset that it doesnt know everything about your system.

In addition, the new Update system is a Service that runs on YOUR computer. It downloads the updates available, and their requirements. This file is a XML download. The software that is on YOUR system them checks YOUR system for what updates are needed. At NO time during this procedure does microsoft receive information on what software you have installed or what hardware you have. It only know what HD and Software you have installed if you choose to install the updates. Even then, the Critical Packs contain updates for applications and Hardware that you may not even have. The setup of these applications then handles the details. Again, Microsoft really doesnt know if you have that strange device, cause it updates the drivers for system hardware that you might not have.

Subscribe to 2600, or the Black Box Magazines... and then you will start to understand what and how different things work. Also why, who, how and what people are doing to crack and check these different types of systems.

 

[GreenJelly]

just do the critical ones?

problem is most are quite serious when its ms half seem to be ones that are similar to others or the one in the image file handeling... Hum can u say BACK DOOR?

http://www.sans.org/top20/#w2

Please put somethings in perspective... Your running a OS that 95% of the people in this world run. Security breaches for this system are thus highly publized. Windows is also a target because so many people run it.

What you dont hear about is the problems with Linux or Mac, and their security flaws. Why? Because 5% of the people dont use it... thus its not news worthy.

There have been reports of the FBI and CIA approaching Microsoft to require windows backdoors. Microsoft not only refused, but fought and won its right not to do this... This was a very public example.

Another issue is that Windows XP at the time of release, contained 32 million lines of code.

Think for a second how hard it is to manage 32 million lines of code, and then NOT make some mistakes.

Again, I am not a Microsoft fanboy, I would be the first one to agree and be angered if Microsoft did cross the line. At times they have done some pretty stupid stuff, but they simply do not justify this attack against them. I would suggest that you start complaining about Microsofts Monopolistic control over the browser, and how after beating out Netscape they fell asleep on the application until once again they were threatened by another browser.

I would also suggest you argue and complain about the DRM that Microsoft is supporting and its distructive and disabling usage of certain content.

You may also argue and complain that Microsoft has been slow to adopt outside standards, until thoose standards become so prevalent that they are forced to adopt them unless once again there is a threat to their market share.

Maybe you should point out the ease at which Microsoft handled the justice request for MSN search results...

These are valid concerns... right now, the windows update utility is on the bottom of my list of issues.

Mike

 

[aftermath]

windows update would not worry me if it worked (my xp is not updating must be some activeX goof) i use 2k most of the time xp is a virtual pc

Its just a bit of a concern that errors that they fixed back on the 16 bit OS crop up now on the new ones or they release an update and it brakes your hard disk (NTFS not physical disk) because you were one of the few people with an MS computer with a load of source code in a compressed directory and the solution restore a back up. lol thanks M$.
And again why can I down load software that instantly needs a patch? If they have that much spare bandwidth they can give me some.

also there are Linux and Apple flaws in that list they are just the ones i would patch first if i was making choices cos of Die(l) up

 

[grumperfish]

JESUS CHRIST this is a dumb thing to fight about...

To the OP: I don't really care if you cracked XP or whatever so I'm going to help you without a bunch of tsk-tsk-tsk:

Download AutoPatcher (the full version, updated through August I believe) and the October/September/whatever updated modules. You may have to grab AutoPatcher from a torrent, not sure.. Check their website. Anyways, install AP and the updated modules (by month of release and not all willy-nilly). Run AutoPatcher and select whatever updates you want and discard the ones you don't. It may take awhile, but you shouldn't have to do anything other than just let it run. Windiz Updates and MBSA are other ways to get the current updates, but autopatcher is quick and painless.

To GreenJelly: Hey man, some of us just don't like M$ all up in our 'biz. Personally, I just don't like having to restart constantly to finish a barrage of updates when it's just not necessary. I like a fire-and-forget update solution, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Basically while you may be happy with everything or at least most things that Microsoft does, some of us aren't, and it's nice to have alternatives once in awhile.



Edit: Micros

 

[GreenJelly]

Im not happy with most things M$ does... I just dont see the point in complaining about the damn auto update... Im glad it is there...

Lets ***** about Microsoft in a way that is more constructive. Lets complain about something that really matters

 

[MVC]

.... Download AutoPatcher (the full version, updated through August I believe) and the October/September/whatever updated modules. You may have to grab AutoPatcher from a torrent, not sure.. Check their website. Anyways, install AP and the updated modules (by month of release and not all willy-nilly). Run AutoPatcher and select whatever updates you want and discard the ones you don't. It may take awhile, but you shouldn't have to do anything other than just let it run. Windiz Updates and MBSA are other ways to get the current updates, but autopatcher is quick and painless.

Thanks!!! This appears to be what I'm looking for. I looked at hundreds of Google pages yesterday and it never came up so I have to wonder if someone (read Microsoft) is trying to have it suppressed....

I had found Windiz Updates, but the unsigned control that some say could be hijacked didn't seem like a good idea. I could have unistalled the control, but I liked the idea of being able to use Firefox so I was still looking. Not having to use a browser would be even better!

Oh, and here is a good article on why one shouldn't use Windows Update.

Thanks!
Mark

 

[AngelfireUk83]

I never see 50+ anymore as there all slipstreamed into a newly created XP Pro along with SP2. I don't see any spyware from microsoft if the validation tool comes up I install it it's not cause me any harm. Even thou I do have 91 updates backed-up to a DVD-R disc I don't care cause I know there only on it so I can create a new disc whenever. I also add any new ones that come to the disc for future slipstreaming but the main reason was for people who had slow internet connections can had loads to download. To be honest I started backing them up last year in May 2005 lol.

But to say MS installs Spyware sorry that's Sony's job (looks back at the rootkit fiasco) MS have always stood by there statement that they will never breach the contract on giving peoples personal info out. If they did the US Supreme court would be on there *** along with every european court as well and fine them for breaching personal infomation.

 

[GreenJelly]

Yeah, SpyWare has the assumption that the Data they collect is used for A) sales promotions or B) To be sold to other companies for Sales/Marketing purposes.

Microsoft is a big company, they wouldnt get very much money from one or two buyers of this information. Therefor they would have to advertise or approach individuals that this information is available. When it comes to Microsoft, there are HUGE profits to be made if you have proof that someone from Microsoft approached you about buying this data. Just think how much Oracle and Steve Jobs would pay for such information.

Based on looking at the overall picture, it is my opinion Microsoft can be trusted in this aspect. Even the link provided only claims that Microsoft installed what they call is "Spyware". However, it provides no claims that this information was used in anyway that was unethical or that didnt follow their own statements of privacy (which if you read them are very strong in their language).

The problem that I have is that this information can be misused. I personally would have no problem admitting that I was using illegal software, however the thread would probably be deleted. In addition I would not post any such requests on OCForums, and I tend to only crack software that I plan to try before I buy.

As it is, this thread is unethical, because it teaches people how to bi-pass Microsofts ability to charge for a product that they have spent hundreds of millions to make. They employee thousands of workers, and Bill Gates has given a major portion of his personal profits to projects that help the needy. I cant quite stand here rightously and tout the wrong doing of pirate software, for I myself have partaked in it. However, I dont think an Overclocking Forum should teach people how to hack the system.

When I had a problem with a device that I had mistakenly caused possible destruction. People from this forum stood up and said it was wrong for me to RMA it. They were right, and as much as I tried to justify my actions, I just could not. They stood by their guns, and even faced the possibility that others may argue or look down on them. I tryed to justify my actions, but their case was valid, and I yeilded to their ideas.

I respect these people for their honesty, their integrity and their determination. I think we need a few of thoose same people to step up and say the same thing. So I ask you (MVC) that if you dont own a legal version of MS Windows, to go buy the copy. It doesnt cost much and will even come with a free upgrade to Vista. I also think that If you DO own a legit copy of windows, that you may want to go to another forum when you want to discuss such maters.

If you have any additional issues regarding how to bi-pass the different ways Microsoft checks your system to see if its valid, then I would hope that you dont post it in a forum that helps people with legitimate problems regarding legal use of their software.

Mike

 

[aftermath]

As it is, this thread is unethical, because it teaches people how to bi-pass Microsofts ability to charge for a product that they have spent hundreds of millions to make.

Did we? I hope I didn't! We didn't even link to how to remove the WGA

Autopatcher looks interesting but I have WSUS. Updating a pack of Pcs chews too much bandwidth but not everyone has a win2XXX server, btw all my MS software is legal although I did not pay for all of it I am the registered licensee as they gave me it. I would have no qualms about breaking activation on what I paid for if M$ goofed up again (WGA informed some people they had no right to use the software they had paid for these were companies) can't find the link so I'm probably wrong. and the IT departments in question were on the phone and reactivated rather quickly if I remember.

I did not pay for Linux tho... I <3 bit torrent


finally I very much doubt MS sells user details but I dis-like being considered a crook if their activation was broken well hard luck should have done better. A little innocent till proven blah something or other.

edit: i wish I could spell/use grammar