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trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Yes I will read.
Notwithstanding. There are some things that do not make sense to me.
Ai tuner is set to 5.1 with a 34% overclock. However every time I use cinebench it does the test and the clock is at 4.9 and not 5.1. I can see the real clock with cpu-z. Basically Ai tuner is full of shiat, to tell me it's at 5.1?
Ai tuner also turns off my XMP2 profile, this massively irritates me.
Cinebench keeps giving me different scores with the same settings. This makes no sense.
If i try to force a real 5 or 5.1 my temps are higher and my cinebech score is even worse.
If I try to increase voltages in Ai tuner (offset) cinebench punishes me even more by lowering the score 400 points.
I trieed to force a 5 manually with sync all cores, and got the same bad results

We've explained to you over and over what we think is happening when you run CB R20 and your CPU ratio is not running at what you have it set to. It's either the AVX offset or thermal throttling. I'm not sure there is any more to say about it. Either you don't believe us or you don't fathom what our explanation is. And we keep trying to redirect you to the bios but you insist on doing the overclocking from AI Tuner. There's a communication or logic disconnect happening here.

Do you understand the term "thermal throttling"?

Do you know what AVX is?
 
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connta

Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Also, please stop obsessing over 3.8Ghz TDP limit on "base clock", it does not matter, it is not relevant, just forget about it and never consider it again. Never set your cpu to 3.8, it will not show us anything, you just dont do it. Your base clock is 4.7, thats it. What you are seeing in AI Suite as "Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10700k CPU @ 3.8Ghz" is basically just a string readout, you will see the same in CPU-Z under "Specification", it never changes, it is not a modular readout, it just reads the spec string and displays it there no matter what you do. It just isnt relevant for us. The 3.8 number is more of a marketing for corporations, OEM's and power constraints ratings and whatnot, totally irrelevant for this situation. No more 3.8 consideration, please.

From what i saw on the default screenshots your processor hits its velocity boost (2 cores got to 5.1, as expected), all core velocity boost (all cores got to 5.0, as expected) and then you are hitting 4.7-4.8 which is in spec for base boost and the voltages look fine so there is def nothing wrong at the default, you are doing something to it when you overclock. I asked you to stick to one OC method but you are still not budging, once you have AI Suite installed there is no reason to have XTU besides it as they are basically the same. And again, nowhere on your screenshots of AI Suite (or XTU for that matter) i do not see any voltage settings or anything in that regards, where are you actually making these changes?

Now that we established default is fine, give us a screenshots of all the overclocking panels you are setting and then also same screenshot with HWiNFO open and cinebench running as you did before but with OC settings applied (and screenshots of the settings, i cant stress this enough).

EDIT: Cinebench of 4586 at defaults does seem a tad bit low, ~4800 is what you should be getting from what i see but considering we are talking about a modular cpu boost here you could be hitting thermal constraints faster than other reviewers (i do not have 10700k so i have to base my assumption on reviews). We will also need a temperature readout in HWiNFO to display, you can move parameters in settings and you can make the window bigger to show temps too, please do so.
 
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OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Guys. This is not about me believing you or not. It's that two weeks go I had never built a pc or ever overclocked.
Sorry, I have no idea what avx is. I have seen thermal throttling in XTU when the multiplier is above 4.9. I have endlessly searched for voltage settings in XTU my version does not have them. Ai suite does have a ton of voltage settings, but I do not know what each one does and what to set them to. Anyway, unless you guys give me some instruction on how to do this manually, I do not see any other alternative but to use AI yet again.
Everyone is telling me not to use the Asus software and to do this manually. The problem is that I do not know which voltages in the bios I should alter and by how much. Yes, I have understood the principle of changing a value, rebooting and doing a stress test, then going back and changing yet again. But i simply do not know where to change, what to change and by how much. I do understand that the values need to be changed incrementally.
Above 4.9 XTU exhibits thermal throttling, and another throttle,(I forget its name). But xtu does not give you instructions on how to reduce it or what to do. It's like you going to a doctor and he tells you your billirubin is low, and you look at him and ask "Who the hell is Billy Reuben?"
All the you tube videos I have seen on you tube video make it sound so easy. Go into bios, change the multiplier, and voila!! Nobody explains on which voltages to change. One expert the other day said it was standard and safe to undervolt 100 mv. I tried and pc crashed.

My objective is to get a stable 5.0 overclock with the proper voltages, and to do this manually. I have the Hwinfo you suggested, I also downloaded prime. What are the next steps please?

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CONNTA!!!!!!!!!!!! I have uninstalled all software with REVO uninstaller. I have flashed bios. I am waiting for your instruction. The bios is fresh and ready. What you saw yesterday was a result of the AI suite overclock, which is no longer existing.
Please give me next steps. Multiplier I know how to do. What about voltages? Do i set XMP?
 

connta

Registered
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Well, buddy, if theres thermal throttling on 4.9 you most likely wont reach 5.0. This seems to be the stem of your problem.

You say its your first ever build and that you did it yourself, have you used thermal paste when installing a cooler, did it possibly come pre applied, what model of cooler are you using?
 
OP
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quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
First question
Hwinfo has three panels. The left one is extremely long. How do I take a screen shot? I tried control A to copy into a word file, but that does not work. That list is longer than a book.
Which panel do you need to see?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Nobody said to use XTU to change anything. Repeatedly we've suggested to use it monitor things... in particular the throttling reasons that will turn yellow at the bottom.

Connta has listed steps... you have an overclocking guide I linked earlier too. I also clarified what voltage to is for vcore. Voltage I told you what to set as well as XMP(your choice to enable right now). There comes a time where some of this needs to land home and you to follow what we've said. :)

Now......... set you core voltage (we defined that above) to 1.3V and 4.9 GHz. Run a stress test.... during that test, we want to see core temperatures and if there is anything throttling. You can use CPUz to show the clocks, and Coretemp for the temps.

All we need to see now is temperatures under load and voltage.
 
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quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Yes it's the coolermaster 240. I watched tons of videos on how to apply paste. It was meticulously done. I pea size in the middle and wiggled cooler around whilst clamping for a few minutes.
4.9 passes without throttling. I get throttling at 5.0-5.2
AT 4.9 temps are around 70 at 5-5.2 they get much hotter, up to 89, and some cores touch 100c . I know there's throttling in XTU because color goes from red to yellow and IT SAYS "YES" to both throttles.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
"both" throttles..... what is the other throttling reason? You have to be specific my man.... this will take weeks at this pace if we have to hoover information from ya, lol.

At this point, you just need to set your Vcore/Core voltage (whatever we determined it was already a day ago) and multiplier and stress test to check temperatures and stability... like the guide I linked covers too.
 
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quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
"both" throttles..... what is the other throttling reason? You have to be specific my man.... this will take weeks at this pace if we have to hoover information from ya, lol.

At this point, you just need to set your Vcore/Core voltage (whatever we determined it was already a day ago) and multiplier and stress test to check temperatures and stability... like the guide I linked covers too.

oK, understood.

1. Set multiplier to 4.9
2. sync all cores?
3. SET cpu /core /cache to 1.3
4. enable xmp
5. intall XTU AGAIN only to stress test? Or should I use prime?
6. send you screenshots
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Yes to all I don't address below.

4. Hold off for now... just let it run defaults. Once we get the CPU squared away you can enable XMP.

As far as #5... the stress test used is up to you. What I use (AIDA64 System Stability test - CPU/Cache/FPU) may be different. Prime 95 is one of the heaviest and most difficult to pass. I find it overkill for MY needs. If you use P95, use Small FFT for just the CPU and blend for the whole system.
 
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quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Hit a roadblock
which voltage setting to select? Manual? Offset? Adaptive?
You need to be very specific
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
MANUAL MODE. As mentioned earlier we DO NOT (at this time) want to use offsets and adaptive voltages.
 
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Yes to all I don't address below.

4. Hold off for now... just let it run defaults. Once we get the CPU squared away you can enable XMP.

As far as #5... the stress test used is up to you. What I use (AIDA64 System Stability test - CPU/Cache/FPU) may be different. Prime 95 is one of the heaviest and most difficult to pass. I find it overkill for MY needs. If you use P95, use Small FFT for just the CPU and blend for the whole system.

Aida is not free. I do not want to spend $64 now. I agree prime is overkill. Apart from XTU what elese can i use to stress? Is 5 minutes sufficient on XTU?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I didn't ask you to spend any money on AIDA. You are able to run the system stability test in the free version AFAIK.

You can run Prime... just saying that it is the most difficult to pass due to temperatures. It is what it is if you don't want to use AIDA.
 
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quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
I didn't ask you to spend any money on AIDA. You are able to run the stress test in the free version AFAIK.

OH! ok dnloading it now

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which selections in aida?
Cpu only?
Please specify
 
OP
Q

quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
How long does Aida run? Do i choose run time? Or does it do it automatically?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Right now we are just trying to make sure you are not throttling. So, a few mins should be enough to see that. Otherwise if we are on our 'final' check for stability, you would let it run for at least a couple/few hours.

While running AIDA... have CPUz up as well as Coretemp so we can get a live shot of what is going on.
 
OP
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quovadis

Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2020
Quick question. i just ran aida before overclocking. Where would I see if its throttling or not? All i see is a green screen with trial version

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So i changed to MANUAL mode for the voltage. Do you see that black box to the left? I can't input 1.35 it will not let me
where do i put the 1.35?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
You would see throttling reasons in the same program you saw them before. XTU. We want to use that as a MONITORING TOOL and nothing else. Maybe Hwinfo may as well, but its just a mass of data that will likely serve to confuse you. Stick with XTU and Coretemp for now so your head doesn't explode. :)

In other words, open XTU, leave it alone. Open AIDA, Core temp, and CPUz, run AIDA test... does XTU show throttling reasons? What temp is your CPU after a few minute test at 1.3V 4.9 GHz (again manually set there in the bios)?


EDIT: You don't put it in the black box... holy cow my man... we can't input the BIOS values for you. Please figure that out (you should enter it below there... it creates a new box IIRC). :thup:

EDIT2: FYI 100C is the throttling point for your CPU. Ideally, you want to keep it at 90C or less during stress testing.
 
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