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Radiator outside?

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Rashio_UK

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2003
Location
Newcastle, UK
hi,
i am thinking about getting water cooling but i am thinking about putting my radiator outside maybe in a bucket of water or just have a bucket of water outside with the pipes going in and out, obviously i would have a lid on the bucket.

now is this possible or are there problems with it?
would there me a problem with condensation or anything else?

thanks
 

Onlypro

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2003
Location
Ottawa Ontario Canada
Dont put a radiator in a bucket of water.... It will likely corrode bad.
Besides, the design of a radiator is to cool through moving flow of air between its fins. If there is no moving air going through its fins it will perform very poor. Same thing if it sits in a bucket of stagnet water.

BTW: What type of climate do you live in?
 
OP
Rashio_UK

Rashio_UK

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2003
Location
Newcastle, UK
i live in the UK and it is not warm here just always raining and winding

so if i got rid of the radiator and just had the pipes goingt o the bucket being pumped around would that be ok or would there still be a problem with condensation?
 

Onlypro

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2003
Location
Ottawa Ontario Canada
Copper piping in a large bucket/drum will work.

How big is the bucket?
How cold could it possibly get outside?
Will you be leaving your comp on 24/7 ?

Condensation depends on the temperature and humidity in your home, the ambient temps of your water.

Also, depends on how hot you processor is.

When my epox 8rda+ system was overclocked, i chilled it with ice + water in a bucket resevoir and condensation never happened cause the waterblock was so damn hot.
When the system wasnt overclocked It condensed im a matter hof having the system running for 10minutes.

There are alot of factors to consider.
 
OP
Rashio_UK

Rashio_UK

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2003
Location
Newcastle, UK
i would use rubber piping in to the bucket, well not a bucket but a container with anti-freeze in to it would not freeze but i would not leave it on 24/7, dont get me wrong i do use the pc alot though :D

i would say that only during winter does it get below 0*C and that is not very often
if u know what the british weather is like that might give u a better understanding
 

BladeRunner

Yoda of Silent cooling
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Location
Chesterfield Uk
As Onlypro says there are many specific factors, humidity is a major factor in determining condensation.... and its always changing.

You'd need to monitor it in relation with your PC ambient and coolant temp to know when it will likely form and then ten mins later it can be different.

This chart may help:

condensationchart.gif


I've had outside rads in the past and they work good in autumn and early spring but are usually a pain in the winter and summer, it's all to variable, part of the reason I went for underground cooling to get some stable cooler temps.
 

BladeRunner

Yoda of Silent cooling
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Location
Chesterfield Uk
Basically taking a for instance.....

If you have say a 28ºC PC ambient air temp, (remember the inside of the PC maybe hotter than the room), and the humidity is 55%, then any waterblock, (or other object), will begin to form condensation on it's surface at the cross referenced temp in black on the chart, in this case it's 18.1ºC. As you go lower then condensation will form faster assuming no changes in the other variables, and of course they are all variables, so the condensation point is never exactly same hour to hour, and can vary wildly in a changeable climate like the UK....... hence my quest for a more stable coolant temp to help control one of the variables.
 
OP
Rashio_UK

Rashio_UK

Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2003
Location
Newcastle, UK
well my room temp is roughly 17-20*C
and the humidity well i dont know how to work that out?
all i can say is the air air is quite dry :p
dont know if that helps at all

well my room temp dont change must because i have a heater that does not let the temps drop below a certain temp so i know for sure that the temp is 17-20*C

looking at the chart i would say it is around 7.6-12.3 is this bad?
 

ZedBias

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Location
UK
Rashio_UK said:
i live in the UK and it is not warm here just always raining and winding

Sooo True. :mad:

I am in the procese of getting water cooling and was thing of doing a simmelar thing, may use a fridge or something like that??
 

E-Licious

Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
BladeRunner said:
Basically taking a for instance.....

If you have say a 28ºC PC ambient air temp, (remember the inside of the PC maybe hotter than the room), and the humidity is 55%, then any waterblock, (or other object), will begin to form condensation on it's surface at the cross referenced temp in black on the chart, in this case it's 18.1ºC. As you go lower then condensation will form faster assuming no changes in the other variables, and of course they are all variables, so the condensation point is never exactly same hour to hour, and can vary wildly in a changeable climate like the UK....... hence my quest for a more stable coolant temp to help control one of the variables.

I see, so the temp of the water block will be between the temp of the coolant and the temp of the CPU. The floor of this will be the temp of the coolant, so as long as coolant stays above the temp in the chart, you are safe from condensation, correct?
 

BladeRunner

Yoda of Silent cooling
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Location
Chesterfield Uk
The numbers in black are the temp condensation will begin to form on any surface when the known temp, (in red), & humidity, (in blue), are cross referenced.

look at the red column that is the ambient air temp so like I said look at 28C in red as a for instance.

Now follow that 28C line across the blue colour to the relative humidity, (you would need a humidity meter to know this and digital ones are availble quite cheep now), as a for instance say the humidity is 55%. The Number in black where the 28c & 55% cross gives us 18.1C and this would be the dew point with that temp (28C) & humidity (55%).

If your coolant was 18.5c in that situation you should not get condensation form but at 17.5C you most likely would....I've been using that chart for a while and can say it's pretty accurate.

You can't guess the humidity by how it feels to you, especially if its cold, Your room maybe 17c now but how hot does it get in the humid summer?, with 90% humidity, there isn't much leeway. (I saw 88% on my display last summer at one point and had to bypass the underground tank).

By all means try an outside rad, just be aware of the possible condensation issues. The other option is to insulate all the blocks and tubes, a right royal pita but can be done.
 

kouch

Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Location
St. Louis, MO
ZedBias said:


Sooo True. :mad:

I am in the procese of getting water cooling and was thing of doing a simmelar thing, may use a fridge or something like that??

I wouldn't recommend a fridge, no fridge can take a constant heat load, they are not designed for it.
 

ZedBias

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Location
UK
kouch said:


I wouldn't recommend a fridge, no fridge can take a constant heat load, they are not designed for it.

What about if I had a buckiet in the fridge and all the fridge had to do was keep the bucket chilled. If a fridge wont work wot about a freezer?
 

BladeRunner

Yoda of Silent cooling
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Location
Chesterfield Uk
It doesn't matter if you have a rad, bucket or whatever in the fridge its still introducing a constant heat load into the fridge. Domestic fridges & freezers are not designed to cool heat producing food. It can & has been made to work but is far from ideal, and unless the fridge in question is a pretty mega one, it will probably run flat out all the time, as such probably wont last long.
 

ZedBias

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2003
Location
UK
OH OK :(

What other things can you do to chill the water to less than ambient temps??
 

BladeRunner

Yoda of Silent cooling
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Location
Chesterfield Uk
bury a tank or pipes underground gives you pretty stable chilled coolant, but its pretty impractical for most people. Tec chillers are another option but very inefficient. A large rad remoted in a cooler place, with a large fan is another way to get cooler temps. I'm using an old JCB rad with a kenlowe fan at 3v at the moment .... works well.

more about it here:- http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=7460