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Raid 0 With 2 x nvme 4.0 drives

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Shizenhouzen

New Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2021
I am in the process of building a new computer, however i can`t find any information on the following -

The processor i have is a `i7 11700k`

The Graphics card i have is a `RTX 3070 Ti `

The motherboard i `want to buy` is a `Asus ROG Strix Z590-F Gaming WiFi`

The NVME drives i have are 2 x Western Digital 500GB Black SN850 Gen4

What i intend to do is, raid 0 the two drives using the motherboard`s 2 PCIe 4.0 x 4 slots.

So my question is, if i use both PCIe 4.0 x 4 slots (for the drives) will this have an impact on the GPU speed, because the GPU PCIE x 16 slot is also 4.0.

The i7 11700k has 20 PCIE lanes as far as i know, so does that mean that 16 of the 20 are reserved for the GPU slot.
If so, that would mean that it would only leave 4 lanes to use for the m.2 drives.

The reason i would like to buy this particular motherboard is that it has 2 x PCIe 4.0 x 4 slots and 2 PCIe 3.0 x 4 slots.

I want to `raid 0` the PCIe 4.0 x 4 slots for my OS and `raid 1` the PCIe 3.0 x 4 slots for the backup drive.

From my understanding both the m.2 4.0 and the GPU 4.0 are both controlled through the `CPU`,so can the cpu handle both without speed loss of any kind.

Just a last note -
Please don`t ask why i want to raid 0 my main drives, like -

1 - you won`t see any realworld difference or

2 - if i drive fails you lose all your data

3 - etc

As for `1` i have raided drives (raid 0) for years and if you build the computer with the right components and setup the system the optimal way i have noticed an `overall` faster response. Either way it is simply a more rewarding way of building a PC. (for me at least)

As for `2` after installing windows, and installing drivers etc, then cleaning out the temp folders and running a registery cleaner, i then create a system image. If i need to reinstall windows with the system image it takes around 4 minutes to have a fresh install of windows with all the updated drivers etc.

I always save any important files/programs on the backup drive/s, anyone that doesn`t should know better.

Not that it can`t happen, but in all the years i have raid 0`ed drives i have not yet had one fail. SSD/M.2 drives are very robust.

Thanks in advance for any information.

David

Sorry i put this thread in the wrong section, first time i have composed a thread on a forum, not sure had to correct this.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
If you look at the manual for the Z590-F you should see that using the M.2 sockets doesn't reduce the PCIe speeds of the full-length slots. They automatically break down to x8/x4 when something is in the second full-length slot, I believe. Seems like they have it 'hard-wired' to run at x4 which leaves x4 for the M.2.

That said, not sure you can RAID from the PCIe slots unless your AIC has it built in... but perhaps I misunderstood. (Talking your backup array)

I don't see the point to R0 NVMe drives for an OS (butt-dyno doesn't count, :p), but, would love to see the speeds you come up with when it's done. :thup:

EDIT: Moved your thread to the proper section. :cool:

EDIT2: Correction, there is bifurcation on this board. Check the manual, page 1-6 and 1-10. In other words, when you RAID from the CPU connected (PCIe 4.0) M.2 sockets, I believe the max the primary slot runs is x12 as x4 lanes go to the second M.2. Performance loss on the GPU is around 1-2%.
 
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Shizenhouzen

New Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2021
Thanks for the reply,
I probably didn`t explain what i meant properly.
I would be installing the 2 NVME WD 500GB Black SN850 Gen4 drives in the motherboards m.2 slots not in the PCIe slots (ie where the graphic card goes)
So as it is, both the drives (SN850) and the graphics card (RTX 3070 Ti) are gen 4.0
Two of the m.2 slots are gen 4.0 (controlled through the CPU) and GPU slots 1 and 2 are also gen 4.0 and also are controlled through the CPU.
However the i7 11700k has 20 lanes, so would the cpu reserve 16 of those lanes for the graphics card slot and leave only 4 lanes left for running the m.2 slots.?

I hope you can understand what i am saying here. (i spent too much time staring out the window at school instead of listening and learning)

Thanks
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I know what you meant... I was talking about your second RAID array.....

Please see edits above. ;)
 
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Shizenhouzen

New Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2021
With regards to the backup drive, i will be using the m.2 gen 3.0 slots.
This motherboard has a total of `4` m.2 slots, 2 x gen 4.0 and 2 x gen 3.0 m.2 slots
Raid 0 in the 2 gen 4.0 slots (OS)
Raid 1 in the 2 gen 3.0 slots (Backup Drive)

The system i am currently using, i had at one stage raid 0 three NVME 3.0 drives.
However it was actually a little slower than raiding just two drives due to i imagine basically being to much for the motherboards hardware to process/handle.

Thanks for moving this thread into the right location.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Oye... maybe I should have some caffeine before replying... I thought that board had 3 M.2 sockets, lol!
 
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Shizenhouzen

New Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2021
Just read the update.
Thanks that clears it all up.
Appreciate your help and time.
Sort of sucks to loose a little bit of GPU performance.
I know this small amount is more the likely insignificant and probably not noticable,but i think it would be better to have GPU running at max and not raiding the OS drive.
I have spent so long looking for information on this and am so glad you were able to help me out.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Happy to help!!!



I know this small amount is more the likely insignificant and probably not noticable,but i think it would be better to have GPU running at max and not raiding the OS drive.
I agree with this 100%.

I (mostly :p) stayed away from commenting about R0 and NVMe drives due to your disclaimer, but, yeah, they are really pointless, in particular for an OS drive. 4K writes don't really improve and that's what an OS has the most of. Game load times can improve, but, for any MP games, you're just waiting in the lobby a couple seconds longer. As you know there is risk with the array crapping out and backups mitigate that risk. But yeah, unless I consistently work with large files and time is money, I wouldn't bother R0 on these ultra-fast PCIe 4.0 NVMe drives. Not worth the expense and extra risk (regardless if it's mitigated).

I'd MUCH rather run x16 on a GPU and a single NVMe drive. No doubt about it. :)

Regardless, when you get your parts or if you have any other questions, ask!!!
 

tRidiot

Premium Member
Joined
May 17, 2003
I agree, with the speed of NVME on PCIE 4.0, even reinstalling an OS isn't worth the additional cost, in my opinion. FWIW, I have that same NVME drive (the 1gig version) running on my Asus Crosshair VIII Hero and it is insanely fast. I think you'll be plenty happy without RAID. I think I went from start to finish in 10 minutes installing OS.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
One tip, maybe a bit off topic. You can check this card https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/Accessories/HYPER-M-2-X16-CARD-V2/ and compatible motherboards and RAID modes.
Some more info and compatible motherboards and pcie modes - https://www.asus.com/us/support/FAQ/1037507/

If you don't have the CPU and the motherboard then I would also think about Strix B550-XE + Ryzen 5800X or 5900X. This motherboard already has mentioned above ASUS card and supports 4x M.2 PCIe 4.0 + graphics card on X16 slot.
 
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Shizenhouzen

New Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2021
Thanks, i will have a look at those links.

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

I already have purchased the i7 11700k, plus i am an Intel kind of person (stubbon i guess / can`t teach an old dog new tricks)
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Recently I have mixed feelings about both sides ;) Both are good but for me nothing is perfect. Maybe the next-gen will bring something better and we won't be "beta testers" for a half year+ since the premiere (somehow I doubt). I won't hide that my gaming PC uses the 11700K and I can't complain.

I was actually thinking about the card from my last post but I don't think it will change anything and I don't want to spend money on a card+ssd only to check how it works. I already have PCIe 3.0 card which was great for X299 motherboards and with 4x 250GB Samsung 970 could still reach ~10GB/s+.
The only thing for which I dislike RAID on SSD is that for most operations, random bandwidth counts more and low queue 4K operations are almost as high on a single SSD as on 2+ in RAID0/10. So the sequential bandwidth is going up but you can't really see it during typical work or gaming.
 

JrClocker

AKA: JrMiyagi
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
I'm running a current generation Threadripper (parted from my Intel ways as the Intel chips were made from unobtanium when I built this rig.)

I have 2, 1 TB NVMe 4.0 drives.

For the heck of it, I installed the OS on 1 drive and then installed with setup in RAID 0.

I could not notice any difference in speed. Synthetic benchmarks, yet, but I couldn't notice any different. An NVMe 4.0 drive is insanely fast all by itself.
 
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Shizenhouzen

New Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2021
AMD and Intel in this era are both excellent in their own way, and will always get better faster and smarter as time goes.
I agree about the gen 4 drives being superfast and not needing to be raided, but raiding for me, was more like having a stock car and modding the motor so it is not the same as every other Tom,**** and Harry.
I`m still going to purchase the `Asus ROG Strix Z590-F Gaming WiFi` motherboard, however thanks to the info from Earthdog, i won`t be raiding the SN850 drives.
I`m instead purchasing a `Sabrent 2TB Rocket`, the reason for this is because, now i am not raiding the OS drive, it would mean i`m limited to a single 500gb drive. As i install Steam games on my OS drive and the size of some of these games, 500gb gets used up quickly.

Plus check this out for specs :
Sabrent 2TB Rocket 4+ Nvme PCIe 4.0 -Speeds of up to 7100 MB/s (read) and 6600 MB/s (write)

People can have their own choice of drug, but mine will always be speed.

Talking of cars, it is a sad world we live in, when you can buy a decent 2`nd hand car for the price of an RTX 3090.
Basically if you pay AU$3500 to AU$4500+ for just a card then, you would have to be either filthy rich or not so rich and insane.
People taking advantage of this situation we are in at the moment of a low form of life, just greed, simply selfish greed.
I saw a RTX 2060 (not even a super) advertised for over AU$1000, an `RTX 2060` not a RTX 3060.
Happy days.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
One tip, maybe a bit off topic. You can check this card https://www.asus.com/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/Accessories/HYPER-M-2-X16-CARD-V2/ and compatible motherboards and RAID modes.
Some more info and compatible motherboards and pcie modes - https://www.asus.com/us/support/FAQ/1037507/

If you don't have the CPU and the motherboard then I would also think about Strix B550-XE + Ryzen 5800X or 5900X. This motherboard already has mentioned above ASUS card and supports 4x M.2 PCIe 4.0 + graphics card on X16 slot.

I'm replying to my own post as I actually tested the mentioned motherboard and ASUS mixed up all the info ... or just provided not enough in some places so it suggests that the motherboard works in a different way.
In real it looks like:
- If we want to use 4x M.2 SSD then the Hyper M.2 PCIe 4.0 card can work only in the 1st PCIe M.2 slot
- When the 1st PCIe slot is occupied then 1 and 2 PCIe run at PCIe x8 (not x16)
- Since the 1st slot has to be x16 to support 4x M.2 SSD, then the 2nd slot can't be used at all so the graphics card has to work in the 3rd slot which is PCIe 4.0 x4

I just wanted to add that in case someone will browse the threads searching for an answer to a similar topic.

Additional info, I was able to reach 12.7GB/s sequential read using Hyper X16 card with 4x Samsung 970 Evo, PCIe 3.0 x4 SSD in RAID0 when the 1st M.2 on the motherboard was occupied with PCIe 4.0 x4 SSD (installed OS). On the other hand, it's about the same result as on 2x PCIe 4.0 x4 SSD. I also see that 6x M.2 won't work in a single RAID. It's possible to set them in a dynamic volume in Windows with RAID0/1/10 performance but it won't be a bootable RAID.
 

gregmacknass

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2010
I also run this card, and can also say that intel raid on cpu is only available with the higher end offerings in the server side of things and requires a key to unlock it. It would be required to make a bootable volume using that card. You can however make it a nonbootable volume without the key. It is extremely fast though. I get the "limit" 12.7 GB/s read and write.