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Ready to take the plunge (literally) ... advice wanted.

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sp00L

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Location
Buffalo, NY
After living with the noise of a Smartfan II, I swapped to a Delta media speed 92x38 which still puts out over 42 dba. However, it's starting to drive me nutz.

First, I have the rig in my sig in a Lian-Li V2000 with an added side intake and punched rear grills (both dropped system to ambient even under load). I have 27 C cpu idle and 41 C load. I know I won't see much, if any, reduction in temps. I'm after a quiet 'puter.

Here's what I have in mind:

1) Swifty MC600 Pump
2) Swifty MCW6002 or TDX cpu block (not the silver)
3) No gpu or n/b block for now
4) BIX radiator
5) 10' tubing
6) Worm-screw clamps from local hardware/auto parts store
7) Distilled water 75%, Antifreeze 25%

Now for a few questions the stickies didn't quite answer:

1) On the mixture, 75/25 is good? No algea and little corrosion? Other specialty additives seem not to be as good as antifreeze.
2) Radiator mounting, suffice it to say, I have TONS of room. If I mount in the front lower, I lose the first row of hdd racks, but still have a second set. I could mount in the top of the case. Wherever I mount the raddy, do I blow air into the case or exhaust out?
3) Is there an easy way to mount the raddy in the 5.25'' bays? I have 5 open.
4) Any thoughts on mounting the raddy in the bottom of the case? Mines on wheels so I could intake cool air from the bottom.
5) I'm torn between reservoir and a Swifty feel-n-bleed. Advantages of either?
6) Is the BIX good enough for should I think about a dual 120 raddy?

Only thing I have against the heatercores is the need to add barbs and exactly how do I mount a fan to it? As for the pump, I want the convience of 12volts. I'm sure my psu will handle it. Also, I'm budgeting $200-$250.
 

clocker2

Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2003
Location
Mile High
No matter where you mount the radiator, you'll want the hot air to exhaust out of the case.
Think about it...why would you introduce even more heat into your enclosure?

If possible, mount your radiator low...cooler air to push through it.

If you are after a "quiet 'puter" don't you think that a twin 120 fan setup is counterintuitive?

I've not tried the Swiftec fill/bleed sytem, but I've found that in general, reservoirs are the simplest way to go both for bleeding AND filling.
 
OP
S

sp00L

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Location
Buffalo, NY
clocker2 said:
No matter where you mount the radiator, you'll want the hot air to exhaust out of the case.
Think about it...why would you introduce even more heat into your enclosure?

Well, I've read both arguments. One, exhaust out through the radiator to get the heat out of the case. Two, pull cold air into the case and through the radiator.

clocker2 said:
If possible, mount your radiator low...cooler air to push through it.

Ok. Makes sense. I've heard the raddy at the top traps bubbles easier. Others say this is a myth.

clocker2 said:
If you are after a "quiet 'puter" don't you think that a twin 120 fan setup is counterintuitive?

Well, 2 120x38 @ 35.5 db each is still quieter than one 92x38 at 42 db. But point well made.

clocker2 said:
I've not tried the Swiftec fill/bleed sytem, but I've found that in general, reservoirs are the simplest way to go both for bleeding AND filling.

Yes, I've read reservoirs are much easier but they introduce more water, ie volume, into the system thus longer time for the temps to lower. Whereas a t-line or feel-n-bleed has less water which is always in motion, thus being a more efficient setup and less stress on the pump.

Thanks for the points. I'll continue my research with your advice in mind.
 

Raider84

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Location
Cal, US
A radiator on the top wont trap bubbles if you bleed the system before installing the rad.
A res makes it really easy to fill and bleed, and it should, for a little while at least make your temps better for a bigger amount of water has to get heated up.
And if you are worried about stress on your pump just use a larger diameter tube from the res to the intake of the pump.
 

netboy

Registered
Joined
May 28, 2004
the twin 120s will still be quiter if those sound messurments are accurate. when you add another fan of same model you will add 3 db, or if you double power you will add 3 db. Same thing for speakers, radios, sattelites ect. its just physics.
 

netboy

Registered
Joined
May 28, 2004
the bix should have self tapping screw holes so you can mount your fan. In the event that you dont have those you can go to your local auto store and ask them for a kit to mount a transmission cooler to your radiator. They will probally give you some nylon bolts and washers. Works great thats what i use.
 
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S

sp00L

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Location
Buffalo, NY
After researching further and looking inside my case every 2 seconds, I can't bring myself to drop $300 to gain maybe 2-3 degrees C on my load temps. I doubt noise would be reduced much and if it is, it would be at the expense of performance. Here are some things I'd like to see:

- A single 120mm radiator mountable in 3-4 5.25'' bays with no modding.
- Definitive comparison of intaking vs. exhausting air on the radiator
- Or, a ducting kit that allows you to intake cool air that is directed to the raddy and thusly exhausted out of the case
- Price drop. Heatercore is $20, raddy is $60, wtf????
- $80 dc pump????

Coolmaster makes the Aquagate, with a single 80mm fan that buzzes like the devil to get decent performance, what were they thinking????

As long as the Koolance Exos has been out, they still advocate 3 80mm fans and 3/8'' tubing. And it, too, is noisy when the fans are turned up.

We won't talk about Thermaltake. I've looked at what voyuermods did with a v2000. They mounted a dual heater core in the bottom of the case to intake air for cooling. However, wouldn't that eventually heatup the lower half of the case. Especially with only 2 80mm exhaust ports in the lower half? Simply put, there is TOO much information out there. And from my experience, the only way to find the right setup is to experiment. Experimenting costs money. It's different when you blow $40 on a heatsink, but $200+ on something that is complex real puts a different light on the matter.
 

greenman100

Disabled
Joined
May 18, 2003
Location
trying to keep all the magic smoke in
sp00L said:
Here's what I have in mind:

1) Swifty MC600 Pump
2) Swifty MCW6002 or TDX cpu block (not the silver)
3) No gpu or n/b block for now
4) BIX radiator
5) 10' tubing
6) Worm-screw clamps from local hardware/auto parts store
7) Distilled water 75%, Antifreeze 25%

Now for a few questions the stickies didn't quite answer:

1) On the mixture, 75/25 is good? No algea and little corrosion? Other specialty additives seem not to be as good as antifreeze.
2) Radiator mounting, suffice it to say, I have TONS of room. If I mount in the front lower, I lose the first row of hdd racks, but still have a second set. I could mount in the top of the case. Wherever I mount the raddy, do I blow air into the case or exhaust out?
3) Is there an easy way to mount the raddy in the 5.25'' bays? I have 5 open.
4) Any thoughts on mounting the raddy in the bottom of the case? Mines on wheels so I could intake cool air from the bottom.
5) I'm torn between reservoir and a Swifty feel-n-bleed. Advantages of either?
6) Is the BIX good enough for should I think about a dual 120 raddy?

Only thing I have against the heatercores is the need to add barbs and exactly how do I mount a fan to it? As for the pump, I want the convience of 12volts. I'm sure my psu will handle it. Also, I'm budgeting $200-$250.


1.) if you don't have any aluminum, 90/10 is fine
2.) If I were you, I'd set it ip so it pulled air from outside the case, and put hot air in the case....think...right now, your motherboard operates just fine with the heat from your HSF....
3.) you might fit a chevette heatercore in those 5 bays
4. You're weakening your case signifigantly, but if you can do it and make it strong, go for it....but it may collect more hair and dust.
5.) I like my t-line.

dual 120 is overkill for just one CPU, but it's what I run for just 1 CPU, so I can have quieter fans.

My parts list, if I were you

MCW6002: $50
CSP750 12vDC pump:$40
Chevette HC: $20
10ft clearflex60: $10
clamps/fittings/tline:$10
fans:$15

$145=teh winnar
 
OP
S

sp00L

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Location
Buffalo, NY
greenman100 said:
My parts list, if I were you

MCW6002: $50
CSP750 12vDC pump:$40
Chevette HC: $20
10ft clearflex60: $10
clamps/fittings/tline:$10
fans:$15

$145=teh winnar

Too lazy to replace the barbs, $30 for Dtek or DD Heatercore.
MCP600 pump: $75 @ CrazyPC
Everything else makes sense. $182.50 (MCW6002 is $42.50)
 
OP
S

sp00L

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Location
Buffalo, NY
I don't want to hassle with a relay is the main reason I chose the MCP600. Actually, I shouldn't have said barbs. I read that the stock chevette hc has one 5/8'' and one 3/4'', but I haven't found one here in canada or in Buffalo where I work. $30 for the Dtek unpainted wasn't bad. I just ordered all this crap....3 vendors to get it all. Then I'll make a trip to HD for some clamps and screws....I can't believe I really did it. But that 42 dba delta on the heatsink has a rather annoying whine and my cpu temps fluctuate 2-5 C with the ambient whereas the system only moves 0-2.

The plunge has been taken. Thanks for your comments, it helped get me away from those over-priced shiny BIX's.
 

greenman100

Disabled
Joined
May 18, 2003
Location
trying to keep all the magic smoke in
sp00L said:
I don't want to hassle with a relay is the main reason I chose the MCP600. Actually, I shouldn't have said barbs. I read that the stock chevette hc has one 5/8'' and one 3/4'', but I haven't found one here in canada or in Buffalo where I work. $30 for the Dtek unpainted wasn't bad. I just ordered all this crap....3 vendors to get it all. Then I'll make a trip to HD for some clamps and screws....I can't believe I really did it. But that 42 dba delta on the heatsink has a rather annoying whine and my cpu temps fluctuate 2-5 C with the ambient whereas the system only moves 0-2.

The plunge has been taken. Thanks for your comments, it helped get me away from those over-priced shiny BIX's.


the CSP750 is 12v, too......
 

Guderian

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Location
Ft Worth - Texas
- A single 120mm radiator mountable in 3-4 5.25'' bays with no modding.
- Definitive comparison of intaking vs. exhausting air on the radiator
- Or, a ducting kit that allows you to intake cool air that is directed to the raddy and thusly exhausted out of the case

I have a Jr120 mounted in the top, with 2 120's @7v.

Intake = case 38C, Idle 41C load 44C
Exhaust = Case 32-34C, Idle 43C load 46C
Ambient was 26C

1/2" system

I could have mounted the jr120 in 4 5.25 bay if i clipped off the rack tabs in the LianLi. I just didnt want to look at a heater core instead of driver covers.
 
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sp00L

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2003
Location
Buffalo, NY
greenman100 said:
the CSP750 is 12v, too......

I don't know much about the CSP. I've read a lot of good things about the v2 MCP600.

I'll probably remove the rivets and take out the foremost set of hdd racks and use the existing 120mm fan spot to bolt on the raddy and add a second fan and shroud if needed.
 
Last edited:

Giblet Plus!

Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
Northwestern University - Evanston, IL
clocker2 said:
No matter where you mount the radiator, you'll want the hot air to exhaust out of the case.
Think about it...why would you introduce even more heat into your enclosure?

It is heat that is already being dumped there thanks to the heatsink fan. If he retains good case airflow case temps will stay the same and the radiator will be cooled by cooler air. A decrease in the temperature of the air entering the radiator by 2C will decrease the processor temp by exactly 2C.


clocker2 said:
If possible, mount your radiator low...cooler air to push through it.

There is a very marginal temperature difference between air being pulled in at the bottom of the case and air being pulled in at the top.

clocker2 said:
If you are after a "quiet 'puter" don't you think that a twin 120 fan setup is counterintuitive?

No, the bigger and greater number of fans you have, the slower (and therefore quieter) you can run them while retaining the same level of airflow. I am currently redoing my setup to use 4 slow 120x38mm fans on a dual sized heatercore.

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=308487

clocker2 said:
I've not tried the Swiftec fill/bleed sytem, but I've found that in general, reservoirs are the simplest way to go both for bleeding AND filling.

A well designed reservoir will make filling and bleeding more simple, however common reservoirs like bay models and dangerden's cylindrical reservoir are not well designed and can be just as difficult to use as a simple T line. A proper reservoir will be connected directly to the inlet of the pump with as large of diameter of tubing as possible to allow the pump to be as efficient as possible.


I appreciate your enthusiasm for watercooling but I would also appreciate it if you don't post personal opinions and beliefs as facts.
 

Guderian

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Location
Ft Worth - Texas
in its current position (against the PSU) it IS modded (120 blowhole).

however in my lianli pc60, if you clipped off one of the 2 inch longdrive rail tabs, you could have mounted the JR120 in 3 5.25 bays, using the excess space above the last bay. for all intents and purposes it would fit in 4 5.25 bays with very limited modding
 

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Giblet Plus!

Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
Northwestern University - Evanston, IL
llv20004.jpg


After taking a look at your case, it appears to be quite ideal for watercooling if you are willing to cut it up a bit.

You have several good options, both of which involve using removing the bottom hard drive racks (you still have plently of room for hard drives on converters in your 5.25 bays)

1. Put a heatercore in the bottom front of your case and use the bottom area as a wind tunnel to pull air through it (you could also run a 120mm fan and shroud on it). There would still be plenty of room for a pump down there too.

2. Run a heatercore sideways with dual shrouds in the bottom section, pulling air in on one side and dumping it out on the other.

Utilize the empty space in your case, don't pack more stuff into the motherboard area.