Recommendations for mid-range Conroe gaming rig?

[KillrBuckeye]

My father-in-law just asked me to build a computer for my brother-in-law for Christmas, and I'm clueless when it comes to Intel hardware. He asked that it be similar in price/performance to the one I built for my other brother-in-law back in June: AMD Athlon 64 Venice @ 2.4 GHz, 2x1GB DDR400 value RAM, 7900GT, 250GB SATA2 drive, FSP 450W PSU. This came to ~$950 (everything but monitor) at the time. Now that Conroe rules the roost, I figure it would be silly to build a comparable AMD system. I plan to do a bit of research, but I don't have that much time remaining, so I'm asking for a bit of help.

In terms of CPU I'm wondering if the 4MB of cache is really necessary for this build (it just needs to be a capable gaming machine), i.e. can I get by with an E6300/6400? I have read about some decent C2D boards: the Asus P5B series and a Gigabyte board that seems to be decent, but I'm not familiar with all the variants. In terms of memory, I definitely want 2x1GB, but do I really need some PC2-6400 stuff? Or will the lesser PC2-5300 be okay? I'm willing to enable a moderate overclock on this system, but nothing that comes close to pushing the stability threshold. Again, total system cost excluding monitor should be around $1k.

Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

 

[greenmaji]

E6400
GA-965P-S3
DDR2 800 is around the same price as slower ram really, not alot of it with decent IC's left though
Sparkle 550W SLI PSU
The majority of the budget on a powerfull GFX (see if ya can't get a 8800GTS or something in there )

 

[nd4spdbh2]

E6400
GA-965P-S3
DDR2 800 is around the same price as slower ram really, not alot of it with decent IC's left though
Sparkle 550W SLI PSU
The majority of the budget on a powerfull GFX (see if ya can't get a 8800GTS or something in there )

yup what he said... although if you can find a 7900GTO somewhere for 250 or less grab that it will be much more budjet worthy and will still play ANY game at high to max settings with great framerates.

As for harddrives Seagate 250gb Perp SATA2 16mb chache

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148144

Cheap, Cool, Quiet, Tons of storage, and FAST!

for reference i helped build a conroe system for an AMD fanboy friend of mine. When i built it for him he had a X2 3800 and i built pretty much the same system, E6400, S3, ddr667, and 250gb seagate perpindicular... i let him choose gfx and he chose a x1800xt, he wanted to try ati... but he told me after i built it for him that it was amazing how more responsive the C2D was compared to the X2...

 

[jcll2002]

lol just was this http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTIyNSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

 

[greenmaji]

lol just was this http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTIyNSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

The PSU and mobo I recomended are cheaper, and will do the job just as well leaving some $$$ for a higher multi CPU (for some headroom if he disides to OC some) and a better GFX.
If overclocking is a minor consern.. get the E6300 and sink the extra 40 bucks tword the GFX, but once you go 8800 you will want to OC the CPU, thats why I suggested the E6400.

 

[KillrBuckeye]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have started putting a parts list together, but I'm starting to get a bit worried that I won't be able to meet the ~$1k budget requirement with a Conroe system. My father-in-law won't want to pay much more than that considering that the $950 machine I built earlier this year (see original post) has exceeded their expectations.

Right now I'm at ~$1130 with the following parts:

C2D E6400: $219
GA-965P-S3: $116
2x1GB memory: $200
7950GT 512MB: $260
Seagate 250GB perp: $81
Sparkle 550W: $90
Antec SLK3000B: $71
Optical drive, keyboard, mouse, etc: $90


The problem seems to be that the Intel CPU and mobo are significantly more expensive than the AMD parts I used in the previous build, and memory prices have skyrocketed over the past year (I paid $155 for 2GB in June ). Any ideas where I can cut out cost?

These are my thoughts:
- Replace the E6400 with the E6300--the 7950GT shouldn't be bottlenecked by a slightly OC'd E6300, right? Saves ~$40.

- Replace that hefty Sparkle 550W with a Fortron 450W. He will never go SLI, and only moderate overclocking is desired. The Fortron 450W has held up great in the previous system I built. Saves ~$40.

What else can I do?

 

[greenmaji]

Still a high quality PSU, little more power then the Fortron your considering.
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=PS...42e6bbbb42dbc3b2cbc8064345c1cbf0f087bf1b1286d

Wich ram? tough call on cheap sticks, problem with ram prices is its not going down till after the holidays

As far as what will bottleneck that GFX, I dont think its that powerfull but Im not sure its an underclocked 7900GTX right? I think I'd ask some of the benchers. Im going with most likely GPU limited with that card.

 

[Evilsizer]

7950gt is just a 7900gt with 512mb of ram. the downclocked 7900gtx is the 7900gto.

here is what i got for you, not sure where you got those prices from but i used newegg and got you down to $989 without shipping.

cpu/mobo como
e6300/biostar tforce 965pt(which is the 965 dlx board just minus a few features. it is equal to the s3 suggested.)
http://www.newegg.com/product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813138037
(scrolldown then click the see all four combos last one on bottom e6300 or you could do e6400)
only saves you $10 but that is money for something else.

psu
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16817709002
sunbeam nuuo, after reading jonny guru's review of the 550watt i would expect the same from this one. the price difference of the 450 to 550 is $30,seeing as it is $10 off the 450 unit

case is the same but listed at $55
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811129152

hd is the same but listed at $74
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16822148144

7950gt is cheaper then you said if you go with this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122012

ram is this stuff here
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16820231087
your just mildy ocing but run the 1:1 ratio on the mobo to the ram to keep in spec. with 400mhz fsb thats over mild but for this setup its doable for 24/7 usage. would really consider now using the extra money for a better hsf.

since i didnt know what keyboard and extra's you were using i just added $90 to the total i got at newegg.

on a side note the reason why the E6xxx's are so much atm is that no other C2D (conroe/allendale) line is out yet. if you were building this computer at the start of next year the E4xxx line would have gotten started. with the eye catcher being the e4300 with 9x multi and only 800fsb. say stock volts with 266fsb and instant 2.4ghz, with who knows how much higher it would go on stock volts.

let us know how it goes.

 

[KillrBuckeye]

Thanks for the suggestions. The prices I listed included shipping. The good news is that I got the "OK" to spend as much as $1100 on this machine. I think I've decided on the E6300 and the Gigabyte board. I've never used Biostar, so I'm a bit wary of that combo deal. I managed to find the case for $55 including shipping from techonweb.com. Good find on that cheaper 7950GT Evilsizer! Every little bit will help.

I'm just curious: Why is my choice of the Fortron 450W so unpopular? Everything I've read on these forums and my personal experience suggests that Fortron makes a very solid PSU.

 

[greenmaji]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104954
Efficiency > 70%

They have just updated some designs with the same 12V amp output and better efficiency for roughly the same price IE the enhance 80+ units. Its not a bad unit.
enhance is the OEM for the silverstone 80+ that sells for quite a bit more so it makes it apear to be even a better deal

I don't know whats up with the PSU evil is recomending

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Thanks for the suggestions. The prices I listed included shipping. The good news is that I got the "OK" to spend as much as $1100 on this machine. I think I've decided on the E6300 and the Gigabyte board. I've never used Biostar, so I'm a bit wary of that combo deal. I managed to find the case for $55 including shipping from techonweb.com. Good find on that cheaper 7950GT Evilsizer! Every little bit will help.

I'm just curious: Why is my choice of the Fortron 450W so unpopular? Everything I've read on these forums and my personal experience suggests that Fortron makes a very solid PSU.

I was in the same position as you and I went with the Biostar. The only thing I can see that the Gigabyte has over the Biostar is ram voltage. I think the Gigabyte goes up to 2.5v on the ram while the Biostar stops at 2.2v. Well, I just did the Stilt Vdimm mod on my board which was REALLY easy. I guess I'll post some results after but if you don't want to vmod, get the Gigabyte. If you don't mind doing a quick voltage trick, I'd personally go with the Biostar. People are seeing 500fsb with it relatively easy.

-Collin-

 

[KillrBuckeye]

greenmaji: Thanks for clearing that up. That Enhance PSU seems like it might be worth the extra $15 if I can squeeze it into the budget.

NinjaZX6R, thanks for your comments on the Biostar. Do you feel as confident in the reliability of the Biostar as the Gigabyte? This machine should be extremely reliable since my brother-in-law lives over 700 miles away and I won't be able to provide any "on-site" tech support. I really don't care about overvolting the RAM or pushing the FSB to its limits. Reliability is key.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

greenmaji: Thanks for clearing that up. That Enhance PSU seems like it might be worth the extra $15 if I can squeeze it into the budget.

NinjaZX6R, thanks for your comments on the Biostar. Do you feel as confident in the reliability of the Biostar as the Gigabyte? This machine should be extremely reliable since my brother-in-law lives over 700 miles away and I won't be able to provide any "on-site" tech support. I really don't care about overvolting the RAM or pushing the FSB to its limits. Reliability is key.

Well, I had the DS3 for a while and now I have the Biostar. Both are very reliable boards. If you're not pushing both to their limits, then I'd imagine they will both be rock solid for years to come. I've never found a motherboard to be the root cause of any real instability. I prefer the Biostar just because of the bios and the cost.

-Collin-

 

[Evilsizer]

i was up way to long lost track of the otehr psu's suggested and the one i linked to looked like a good deal... eh i need to sleep more. lol

 

[greenmaji]

i was up way to long lost track of the otehr psu's suggested and the one i linked to looked like a good deal... eh i need to sleep more. lol

Thats ok I figured it was the price..

 

[Neural Net]

Hey KillrBuckeye, the system I have (listed in my sig) should do you just fine. Get a e6300, I have it coupled with a 7900GTO, and I am currently running BF2142 at maximum settings, 2x FSAA, with no overclock and with no dip in fps on 64 player servers, it's been able to run everything I've thrown at it.

I just thought I would throw that in your direction as even the base Core 2 Duo is fantastic for gaming. The 7900GTO is also by far the best deal you can get for a graphics card at the moment if you can find one.

Also, the voltage setting on the biostar should be good enough for some nice DDR800 RAM so I wouldn't be concerned about that.

Hope that helps.

 

[KillrBuckeye]

Thanks a lot everyone for your suggestions! I placed my orders last night:

E6300 & Biostar TForce965P combo: $277
G.Skill 2x1GB DDR2-800: $200
BFG 7950GT 512MB: $250 AMIR
(considered 7900GTO, but was out-of-stock and $20 more)
Seagate 250GB 7200.10 SATA 3 GB/s(perp.): $75
Enhance ENP-5150GH 500W: $67
Antec SLK3000B: $40
NEC optical & floppy: $37
Logitech MX500: $33
Logitech standard keyboard: $8
Shipping: $45

TOTAL: $1033

Woohoo, and I even came close to the original $1000 budget! (I didn't factor in Newegg's bundled shipping rates in my initial budgeting). This machine will most likely be powering a Dell 2007WFP. My only concern now is whether the stock Intel cooler will do the job when the chip is clocked to 400x7 = 2800 MHz. I'm gonna test it a bit since I should have some time to spare before Xmas. It's a bit frustrating that I keep building machines that are superior to my own for other people.

Thanks again everyone for your help.

 

[greenmaji]

2.8Ghz will be close to the limits of the stock cooler with nice ambiants, if they like the house warm durring the winter I would get a better HS.

and No problem

 

[inkfx]

I found that around 2.7-2.8Ghz was the limit for the stock cooler. but hey, a C2D at even 2.6ghz is still pretty sweet. Good luck with the new build, hope your brother in law likes it.

 

[KillrBuckeye]

Okay I have this rig up and running. This rig absolutely destroys my overclocked A64 rig in my sig at the stock settings! Very impressive. However, I do need some help with overclocking.

First of all, can anyone suggest a temperature monitoring software? The utility that comes with the Biostar motherboard is a bit crappy. Motherboard Monitor doesn't seem to have support for this board.

Second, I can't stabilize my relatively modest overclock of 340x7=2380 MHz with 1.46Vcore and memory 1:1 (it fails dual Prime95 almost instantly)! I was under the impression that these chips could OC nicely even near stock voltage. Is that not the case? My memory is now at 5-5-5-15 with 2.1V (it's rated for 400 MHz, 4-4-4-12 at 2.0-2.1V). I guess I'll try bumping up the Vcore yet again.

Third, are there any BIOS settings that I could be overlooking? I assume I should set the PCI-e clock to fixed at 100 MHz. I've set "CPU Fan Control" to [Always ON] instead of [Smart]. I have no idea about the "FSB Termination Voltage" or "(G)MCH Voltage", so I've left those alone.

My temps appear to be okay. I'm idling at ~27C with the stock cooler, and my load temps appear to be settling around 38C (although I can't remain Prime stable for more than 5 minutes :/ ). Might I be doing something wrong with my Prime testing? I'm running two separate instances, each with a different CPU affinity, and I've allocated 800MB to each to do the torture testing.

Any help would be appreciated.