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Recommended memory for AMD Zen 2/3

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Dolk

I once overclocked an Intel
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Whats the best memory for AMD Zen 2 / 3 CPUs? I've got a 3700X with a decent IMC. I'm running 16gig GSkill B-dies @ 3600 15-16-16, but need to get to 32gigs.

I grabbed these, and seemed to be the last. I'm hoping to downclock to 3600 to 3800 and go for CL14.

My plan is to upgrade to a 3D Zen3 once they are available.

I read a lot about the Neo series being good for AMD Zens. I wanted to double check with others and see what their experiance has been. I think these Ripjaws should do great for me, and potentially gets me 4000 with a Zen 3 (if I'm lucky).

Other Contenders I looked at:

 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Anything 2x16GB 3600 CL14-x-x or 16-16-16 will be about the best, no matter what brand as all of them will be Samsung B (other IC are not sold at so tight timings) and from this point is a matter of luck how it will OC. For AMD you want 3600-3800 anyway as there is a low chance to set anything higher at a 1:1 ratio with IMC.
Personally, I like the Royal series more but besides the heatsink, it's about the same as Neo or Ripjaws V. More like a matter of luck if you want to OC. There are other brands too but I guess that G.Skill offers the best kits with Samsung IC.

If you have a good motherboard and some luck with memory chips then you can set 3600-3733 CL14-14-14/14-13-13. Can also check CL13-13-13 with disabled gear down mode. If there will be good airflow in the case then you can go up to 1.6V. Keep in mind that these dual-rank Samsungs run hot.
 
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Dolk

I once overclocked an Intel
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Open air case, with a window AC fan right on top of it... So we'll see :)

I couldn't get a good grip on which ICs were in which sticks. I just wanted to find something that advertised good CL and high clocks at ~1.40V. Figured that would give me my best chance at decent pair for 3800MHz.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
The highest binned Samsung B dual-rank is in the G.Skill Royal DDR4-4400 CL17 kit. I forced myself to buy it some time ago. However, it's not much better than anything lower clocked. I mean up to ~4000, it's about the same as Neo, Ripjaws V, or Team Group kits that I was testing. The only difference is that the 4400 kit runs above 4133 while other kits couldn't even boot at 4200+ or required much higher voltages at 4133.

If you had something like 5700G APU then I would recommend you Micron or Hynix IC and 1:1 up to 4600-5000+. For non-APU, Samsung dual-rank is the fastest but it's clearly limited by the IMC ratio options. Maybe you will be lucky enough to make it work at 4000 and then bump the voltage and it should run at CL14.

I was thinking to rebuild my 5700G+ASUS B550 ITX PC. For me, the 5700G APU is the most successful AMD CPU in the last years. It's just my point of view that probably not many others will share but it's just amazing it runs up to 4.6GHz/8 cores and about 88W max.
With RAM, I'm generally moving to DDR5 so I try to sell whatever I won't need from DDR4. DDR4 will be still in use for some longer but I can't see any point in keeping single-rank 2x8GB kits. I keep 2x16GB Samsung and Micron kits just because Samsung is the fastest for general use and benchmarks, and Micron runs up to 5400+ and for a specific use is a bit better than Samsung.

I don't think I will get AMD with the 3D cache. I just see no point when later this year will be the next-gen and DDR5 platform. PC hardware recently costs way too much and premieres are way too often. I remember when Intel was testing everything for 18 months before release. Now in 18 months, we can see 2-3 new CPUs/chipsets and we are beta testers for everything. Literally, every new platform premiere is a total fail and manufacturers are improving it for the next 4-6 months. I mean various BIOS, compatibility, etc. issues. The same for Intel and AMD.
 
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Dolk

I once overclocked an Intel
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Hate to tell you this but DDR5 is like Alpha right now, not beta when it comes to application in consumer products. I work with the stuff on servers right now and man... its all over the place. I'd easily give DDR5 5+ years in consumer space. No one knows what they want to do with it. On top of that CPUs are dual IMC to support both DDR5 and DDR4. Not ideal.

This is why I'm trying to grab top end AMD when the 3D comes out. I'm on a 3700X which is doing fine, but the Zen3 is so much better.
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Word of warning, some NEO sticks are 1t and others are 2t even on the expensive sets, so you will leave performance on the table if you choose wrong and run stock. For example, F4-3600C16D-16GTZN (3600 16-16-16-36) are t2 but F4-3600C16D-16GTZNC (3600 16-19-19-39) are t1. Think it's safe to assume this can also happen on the 32gb sets. So far, my Flare X 3200 c14 have been the safest/cheapest set I've seen of DDR4 b-die at ~£120, but prices/mileage will vary :shrug:
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Give five years for what?
Hate to tell you this but DDR5 is like Alpha right now, not beta when it comes to application in consumer products.
What does this mean? IMO, DDR5 came out more stable on this generation than I saw DD4 previously TBH. Out of the box it feels like more boards support higher memory speeds, even. I know higher capacity, faster speeds + lower timings will come out as time goes on, but, that's how it's always been. I mean, there's always boards that potato some memory (looking at you Z690 Aorus master!), but overall, all boards dropped in 5600 sticks (4800 is max spec on processor) without issue. I know from Bart's testing, DDR5 6000 is easy breezy on most boards too. What are you trying to say with that statement?

DDR5-based servers are also in use at AWS and they've had minimal issues with them so far (not sure what 'all over the place' means either).
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Hate to tell you this but DDR5 is like Alpha right now, not beta when it comes to application in consumer products. I work with the stuff on servers right now and man... its all over the place. I'd easily give DDR5 5+ years in consumer space. No one knows what they want to do with it. On top of that CPUs are dual IMC to support both DDR5 and DDR4. Not ideal.

This is why I'm trying to grab top end AMD when the 3D comes out. I'm on a 3700X which is doing fine, but the Zen3 is so much better.

I'm testing DDR5 for 4 months+ and there are no problems with them. Problems are with motherboards as all manufacturers were not ready for the premiere. After 6-7 BIOS updates, most motherboards work without issues. I couldn't say the same about most AMD motherboards after pretty much every new chipset premiere or even some months after that. I don't even want to start with vendor complaints about how bad is their cooperation with AMD.
I wouldn't be surprised to see problems with 3D cache CPUs as each new CPU premiere, there are huge problems with BIOS stability or the CPU support added on time. The same was with Ryzen 3000, 4000 APU, 5000, and 5000 APU. Some X570 motherboards are still being sold without BIOS that has Ryzen 5000 support (ehm, X570 Unify).

Word of warning, some NEO sticks are t1 and others are t2 even on the expensive sets, so you will leave performance on the table if you choose wrong and run stock. For example, F4-3600C16D-16GTZN (3600 16-16-16-36) are t2 but F4-3600C16D-16GTZNC (3600 16-19-19-39) are t1. Think it's safe to assume this can also happen on the 32gb sets. So far, my Flare X 3200 c14 have been the safest/cheapest set I've seen of DDR4 b-die at ~£120, but prices/mileage will vary :shrug:

If you mean ranks then every single 2x16GB Samsung B based kit is dual rank. Every 2x8GB kit in the last 3-4 years, no matter what IC, is single rank. 2x16GB 16-19-19 NC = mixed IC but usually Hynix which can be single or dual rank. Every kit at 3600 CL16-16-16 or tighter timings is Samsung B as only this IC is available in mass production at such tight timings. 16-19-19 is almost always Hynix, 18-22-22 can be anything. You can also see the difference in the memory price. Samsung always costs 10-30% more at the same CL (additional timings are higher for Hynix kits which are cheaper).

Give five years for what?

What does this mean? IMO, DDR5 came out more stable on this generation than I saw DD4 previously TBH. Out of the box it feels like more boards support higher memory speeds, even. I know higher capacity, faster speeds + lower timings will come out as time goes on, but, that's how it's always been. I mean, there's always boards that potato some memory (looking at you Z690 Aorus master!), but overall, all boards dropped in 5600 sticks (4800 is max spec on processor) without issue. I know from Bart's testing, DDR5 6000 is easy breezy on most boards too. What are you trying to say with that statement?

DDR5-based servers are also in use at AWS and they've had minimal issues with them so far (not sure what 'all over the place' means either).

My Gigabyte Z690 Master works without issues up to 6200 at XMP and manually up to 6400 ... just not above that, even though on the QVL are 6600 kits. I guess that Gigabyte always has problems with RAM support. The same was with every single AMD and Intel generation in the last 6+ years. I'm only surprised it doesn't work well with G.Skill RAM while it works without issues with ADATA or Corsair. Gigabyte was known to have stability problems with Corsair RAM in the last few years.

DDR5 is supposed to end at about 8000. Motherboards have ratios up to 8000-10000 but some of them won't work. Right now I feel like the limiting factor are motherboards and IMC as RAM for sure can make more.
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
My Gigabyte Z690 Master works without issues up to 6200 at XMP and manually up to 6400 ... just not above that, even though on the QVL are 6600 kits.
Da. I was more talking about the just 'flat out not working with some GSkill kits' from the first BIOS or two. Since it's improved significantly. I think the Pro and Ultra did the same thing for me too. BIOS flashback functionality and the BIOS update resolved it.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Da. I was more talking about the just 'flat out not working with some GSkill kits' from the first BIOS or two. Since it's improved significantly. I think the Pro and Ultra did the same thing for me too. BIOS flashback functionality and the BIOS update resolved it.

For me, these new BIOSes were not helping at all with G.Skill RAM. Two G.Skill DDR5-6000 couldn't run without errors at XMP before and after the BIOS update. When I switched to ADATA then it passed everything without issues. Right now I'm using Z690 Master with Corsair Dominator DDR5-6200 kit as my gaming PC, and it runs at XMP for about 2 weeks 24/7.
There is a new BIOS F8c but I didn't try it.
I wonder how the Z690 Tachyon works in reality as the QVL is a bit weird. All QVL for Gigabyte motherboards look fake as some memory kits from the list are not working at all and some are like 6600 1.55V that were never released and probably never appear in stores.
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
If you mean ranks then every single 2x16GB Samsung B based kit is dual rank. Every 2x8GB kit in the last 3-4 years, no matter what IC, is single rank. 2x16GB 16-19-19 NC = mixed IC but usually Hynix which can be single or dual rank. Every kit at 3600 CL16-16-16 or tighter timings is Samsung B as only this IC is available in mass production at such tight timings. 16-19-19 is almost always Hynix, 18-22-22 can be anything. You can also see the difference in the memory price. Samsung always costs 10-30% more at the same CL (additional timings are higher for Hynix kits which are cheaper).
Command rate, I think it's called. Ryzen reportedly works best at 1t instead of the usual 2t most DDR sets come programmed with (typical Intel). It's a small performance boost, why I thought it merited the warning, the website does not say which are which, you have to check reviews. When Neo memory 1st came out I thought they would be all 1t like my Flare X but was proven wrong with the set I got for the wife's setup, both XMP profiles are 2t.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Command rate, not rank. Ryzen reportedly works best at 1t instead of the usual 2t most DDR sets come programmed with (typical Intel). It's a small performance boost, why I thought it merited the warning, the website does not say which are which, you have to check reviews. When Neo memory 1st came out I thought they would be all 1t like my Flare X but was proven wrong with the set I got for the wife's setup, both XMP profiles are 2t.
Every DDR4 memory kit is supposed to have Command Rate 2T. If it works at 1T then the motherboard sets it. Some OC series motherboards do that even when XMP with 2T is enabled. I remember that some older Patriot kits had 3T but I don't remember any at 1T. 2T is because of the compatibility with various chipsets. General RAM specs don't say that because all are assuming it works at 2T at SPD/XMP.
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Every DDR4 memory kit is supposed to have Command Rate 2T. If it works at 1T then the motherboard sets it. Some OC series motherboards do that even when XMP with 2T is enabled. I remember that some older Patriot kits had 3T but I don't remember any at 1T. 2T is because of the compatibility with various chipsets. General RAM specs don't say that because all are assuming it works at 2T at SPD/XMP.
I'm confused, isn't that supposed to come pre-set on the XMP ? My Flare X always worked at 1t on 3 different motherboard brands (hell, it was released at the time specifically for Ryzen and I distinctively remember the ad mentioning 1t), the wife's Neo 3600 c16 always worked at 2t, a couple of my friends got Neo 3600 c14 and always worked at 1t ?
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
I'm confused, isn't that supposed to come pre-set on the XMP ? My Flare X always worked at 1t on 3 different motherboard brands (hell, it was released at the time specifically for Ryzen and I distinctively remember the ad mentioning 1t), the wife's Neo 3600 c16 always worked at 2t, a couple of my friends got Neo 3600 c14 and always worked at 1t ?
Here is G.Skill 3600 CL14 Neo which is 2T but on AMD B550 mobo it runs at 1T at XMP settings:

On Intel, almost everything runs at 2T at auto/SPD/XMP. On AMD depends on the motherboard, it runs at 1T or 2T at auto/SPD/XMP.
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
On Intel, almost everything runs at 2T at auto/SPD/XMP. On AMD depends on the motherboard, it runs at 1T or 2T at auto/SPD/XMP.
Oh ok ? Honest 1st time hearing it's the motherboard that handles it, I used my kit on z170/b450/b550/x570 and always ran 1t...

EDIT: on z170 was a set of Ripjaws V with same speed/timings, ignore that one :chair:
 
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Dolk

I once overclocked an Intel
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Yeah let me clarify. DDR5 chips are perfectly fine. Its the PMIC and specifications around power controls is what I'm talking about.

I've created power sequencers for DDR5 for motherboards, and I can tell you from from experience that the BIOS issues are point on.

You guys do know that the sticks are all powered on via the BIOS? Its not auto-sequenced with when power turns on. There is all sorts of things you can do now with the power on process which hasn't been fully developed. Its a giant industry shift.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
I'm not sure if I want to find out what manufacturers failed in BIOS as if they messed up some advanced power options then it may end badly for highly overpriced DDR5 :D ... but really every manufacturer has a bit different power management and everyone is saying that is unique and the best ;)
I wasn't checking all available power options but the list is quite long and there are some specific vendor options too.
 
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Dolk

I once overclocked an Intel
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Oh yeah, its the wild west for power up right now with DDR5 lol. Thats why I say wait a long time. The maturity of the FW + industry standards needs to come in for something like this.

Its not like consumers shouldn't own DDR5 right now, just know that its just not user friendly right now. Its like Alpha in UX for consumers.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
I doubt it will be any different as the power design is on the motherboard manufacturers' side. They won't make one standard for everything and once we get some improvements then the new chipset and motherboards will be released. If I'm right then this year we can see Z790 on the market. I wish to be wrong as I have enough new product premieres for which we are beta testers. Every new hardware premiere is 3-6 months of updates while new products are being released every 8-12 months. Z490 was on the market for about a year, not long after the premiere we heard about the Z590, before the Z590 premiere, motherboard manufacturers moved their workforce to Z690 and skipped BIOS tuning for Z590 releasing only critical updates, Z690 was released and in the same time, we heard about Raptor Lake CPUs and probably Z790 motherboards which are on the way. Right now most BIOS updates are for DDR5 motherboards while many DDR4 models are being skipped as no one has time for that. DDR4 support for the Z690 chipset is worse than for Z490/Z590. This is only on the Intel side. AMD has still worse support on the motherboard manufacturers' side. Some motherboards are great but some will never have their issues fixed. This is in big part AMD's fault.
 
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Dolk

I once overclocked an Intel
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Lol you are describing my living hell. AMD and Intel are in ludicrous speed mode. Its absolutely insane to be part of the development process for anything GPU-board or Motherboard related.

AMD's fault is Intel creating the arena to play in and still setting the rules. And also not having enough people. Agile methodology in tech has exploded our development and with COVID, 5G, and Auto, the demand has made that development hit levels that are seriously unhealthy.